Question from a protestant/evangelical missionary serving cross-culturally.

helmut

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The barbarians of his day may not have been as civilized or as well educated as other peoples, but that does not mean that Paul or the rest of the saints looked upon them as being less human than they were. In fact they were admonished not to. (Acts. 10:34)
As I have said, I did not comment on the attitude of Paul.

Furthermore, it was not that Paul necessarily avoided preaching in places where people did not understand Greek. He simply preached wherever he was called to preach and the passage you refer to does not suggest any other region other than Arabia. If Paul said he settled in Arabia for a time, then that is where he had gone to.
The passage I referred to mentioned a non-Greek region, I tried to explain why this is no real exception.

Fact is: Almost all cities in which Paul preached were either Greek (Hellenist) cities (Athens, Corinth, Ephesus, Thessaloniki, both Antiochias, Ikonion) or Roman colonies (Tarsis, Philippi) or Rome itself. Lystra (and Derbe?) are exceptions, but he came only there to flee from persecution in Antioch and Ikonion.

And yet in order to win souls for Christ, we need to know the language of the people we seek to win over. Paul and the other Apostles obviously knew the tongues of those to whom they preached.
They did not understand Lykaonian (Acts 14:12) therefore it took some time (until 14:14) for them to understand what happened.
 
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section9+1

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You commented on an issue Albanians where involved to. This was the reason I admonished you not to rely on your culture. The influence of the own culture on one's thoughts is usually unbeknown (unconscious) to him. So with your attitude you simply cannot know whether the Albanian pastor or the American missionary is right.
The right or wrong of the Albanian pastor is irrelevant. I believe that anyone who takes his kids to a foreign culture for the sake of his ministry is thinking more of his ministry than he is of his family and if you have a family they are always the #1 focus of any ministry. Albanians can get along without him, but to endanger family harmony for the sake of satisfying someone else, is a very regrettable chance to take. If the pastor gets mad and walks away, the missionary will get along regardless. But if the kids eventually walk away, that will never be removed from his heart. Not that any of this will happen, but missionary's kids often have a tough row to hoe through none of their own doing. And very often they do not share the zeal of a ministry that God never called them to.
 
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helmut

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The right or wrong of the Albanian pastor is irrelevant.
In other words, it is irrelevant whether family comes first or church comes first. I can't believe that you mean what you said. It contradicts everything else you are saying.
 
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section9+1

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In other words, it is irrelevant whether family comes first or church comes first. I can't believe that you mean what you said. It contradicts everything else you are saying.
We are not talking about the same thing. Are you ignorant? You are concerned with who is right or wrong. I am not. They both could be right as they see it. It doesn't matter. What matters is how will this play out for the missionary.
 
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helmut

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We are not talking about the same thing. Are you ignorant? You are concerned with who is right or wrong. I am not. They both could be right as they see it.
But only one can be right in God's eyes.
What matters is how will this play out for the missionary.
What is better than being in accordance with the will of God?
 
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Contenders Edge

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As I have said, I did not comment on the attitude of Paul.


His practice reflected his attitude which was that of a soul winner.


The passage I referred to mentioned a non-Greek region, I tried to explain why this is no real exception.

Fact is: Almost all cities in which Paul preached were either Greek (Hellenist) cities (Athens, Corinth, Ephesus, Thessaloniki, both Antiochias, Ikonion) or Roman colonies (Tarsis, Philippi) or Rome itself. Lystra (and Derbe?) are exceptions, but he came only there to flee from persecution in Antioch and Ikonion.


No one is attempting to argue that Arabia is or ever was a Greek region. My point is, is that if Paul says he settled in a certain area for a time, then that is where he settled.


They did not understand Lykaonian (Acts 14:12) therefore it took some time (until 14:14) for them to understand what happened.


I have examined the cited passages and there is no indication that there was a language barrier between the Apostles and while the Lycaonians retained their own tongue, because it was a part of the Greco-Roman empire, Greek and Latin would have still been widely understood
 
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helmut

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My point is, is that if Paul says he settled in a certain area for a time, then that is where he settled.
Of course. I feel being misunderstood.

I have examined the cited passages and there is no indication that there was a language barrier between the Apostles and while the Lycaonians retained their own tongue, because it was a part of the Greco-Roman empire, Greek and Latin would have still been widely understood
A language-barrier can be one-sided. The natives there understood more or less some Greek (and certainly some of them were fluent in this language), but Paul and Barnabas did not understand Lycaonian. So when the people started to shout in their own language, they did not perceive that the people took them for Gods, they understood only after some time, enough time for the local priest to ornament oxen and drive them toward the "Gods".

You may also ask: How much did the audience understand what Paul said, so that they were able to take him for an Greek God?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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I am an American evangelical missionary serving in the balkans. I am working with a national pastor in a small church.

I have encountered a bit of an issue in which I would value some input. I have tried explaining things, but I can’t seem to explain it adequately enough to the pastor. Can I give a bit of background about the situation and perhaps someone could share any thoughts they have regarding the situation?

My wife and I have three teenage children ages 13, 15, and 17. Over the years, we have encouraged and tried to integrate our kids into our host culture as much as possible. They have made strides in this area, but they feel most comfortable with other MKs and TCKs.

Our kids attend an English speaking Christian school that is comprised mostly of MKs and TCKs. All three of our kids attend either a Bible study or youth ministry event every Friday night that is sponsored by the school. Their community and activities mainly center around the school, with many of the teachers being surrogate spiritual mentors and disciplers in the absence of what would be a normal church experience for them. All three of our children are believers in Christ Jesus and have been baptized of their own initiative.

My wife and I have worked hard at developing a healthy understanding and involvement in “church” with our kids. This has been a challenging task and not at all unique to us, but a lot of missionary families struggle in this area. We minister and attend a church that is not in our language or culture, and our two youngest do not understand or speak enough Albanian to understand sermons, Bible studies, or conversations. We have had many discussions about why they need to go to this local church when they don’t understand anything! When we are in the United States, we are often at a different church every Sunday. So even though they understand the sermon, they do not have consistent community, accountability, or a means of being involved regularly in the church.

What we have settled on is piecing together all the components of “church” with some overlap. Three separate efforts help our children grow in their faith in a church experience - our local Albanian church, our children’s school, and our family church time. At the local church, they have a place of service in helping with children’s church and set-up/clean-up; they have multi-generational fellowship and care; they have a place to give tithes and to financially help others in need; and they have accountability in consistency. At the school, our children have Bible teaching; they have accountability with their peers in their daily lives; they have community and deeper fellowship for encouragement and growth; and they have spiritual mentors and youth pastors that come alongside them. In our family church time, we have worship and preaching from the Bible in English through the online services of a church in the US; we pray together and discuss the sermon and its application in our lives. We are careful to explain that normally a healthy church involvement would have all these components in one community, but we realize that this doesn’t happen on the mission field for our kids. I explain all this to underscore that church is very important to our family, but also complicated to explain to those that are not missionaries.

With this background in mind, here is the issue that has surfaced recently. Our local church has started a youth meeting which meets twice a month on Friday nights. Our children have been and continue to be invited to this church youth meeting, but it is on the same night that our kids have a Bible study/youth event through the school. The kids don’t relate as well to the church group compared to their MK and TCK peer group. We have talked with our kids about the church youth meeting, but they still do not have much of an interest in attending.

I am under pressure by our pastor to have our kids not go to the ministry events that they are a part of (and have been for years) and instead go to the church youth group meeting. Our kids don’t want to go to it. I have recently been told that it is an expectation that our kids would attend the church meeting. I don’t know what would happen if our kids still don’t go to it. I suppose the most extreme possibility would be revoking their membership of the church or asking us to leave our ministry with the church.

Everything that I read and believe to be good parenting given our context tells me not to force our kids to go to the church meeting when they don’t feel comfortable there, especially when they are growing spiritually and being ministered to at the youth ministry that is with their peers and in their heart language.

Am I off base here in saying, “Thanks for the invitation but our kids already have a ministry event that they go to.” Even if the church meeting was moved to a different night, I don’t think they would want to go. Not because they don’t like the people in the church, but because they feel so uncomfortable and are already having their needs met through the school’s ministry.

I was told by the pastor that as a missionary and elder of the church, it sets a poor example if my kids don’t go. And the expectation is that they would be there.

I want to say this situation is not that big of a deal, but I have seen missionaries ousted from national partnership for some pretty little things.

Does anyone have any thoughts regarding this situation?

This is a no brainer, let them go to the one they want to and ask the church to change the day and time of their youth group so, they can attend that too. That Pastor is lacking leadership by making it a go go ours and not where you want to go. That Pastor is prideful and needs to grow up.

In short, let them go the school one.
 
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SANTOSO

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I am an American evangelical missionary serving in the balkans. I am working with a national pastor in a small church.

I have encountered a bit of an issue in which I would value some input. I have tried explaining things, but I can’t seem to explain it adequately enough to the pastor. Can I give a bit of background about the situation and perhaps someone could share any thoughts they have regarding the situation?

My wife and I have three teenage children ages 13, 15, and 17. Over the years, we have encouraged and tried to integrate our kids into our host culture as much as possible. They have made strides in this area, but they feel most comfortable with other MKs and TCKs.

Our kids attend an English speaking Christian school that is comprised mostly of MKs and TCKs. All three of our kids attend either a Bible study or youth ministry event every Friday night that is sponsored by the school. Their community and activities mainly center around the school, with many of the teachers being surrogate spiritual mentors and disciplers in the absence of what would be a normal church experience for them. All three of our children are believers in Christ Jesus and have been baptized of their own initiative.

My wife and I have worked hard at developing a healthy understanding and involvement in “church” with our kids. This has been a challenging task and not at all unique to us, but a lot of missionary families struggle in this area. We minister and attend a church that is not in our language or culture, and our two youngest do not understand or speak enough Albanian to understand sermons, Bible studies, or conversations. We have had many discussions about why they need to go to this local church when they don’t understand anything! When we are in the United States, we are often at a different church every Sunday. So even though they understand the sermon, they do not have consistent community, accountability, or a means of being involved regularly in the church.

What we have settled on is piecing together all the components of “church” with some overlap. Three separate efforts help our children grow in their faith in a church experience - our local Albanian church, our children’s school, and our family church time. At the local church, they have a place of service in helping with children’s church and set-up/clean-up; they have multi-generational fellowship and care; they have a place to give tithes and to financially help others in need; and they have accountability in consistency. At the school, our children have Bible teaching; they have accountability with their peers in their daily lives; they have community and deeper fellowship for encouragement and growth; and they have spiritual mentors and youth pastors that come alongside them. In our family church time, we have worship and preaching from the Bible in English through the online services of a church in the US; we pray together and discuss the sermon and its application in our lives. We are careful to explain that normally a healthy church involvement would have all these components in one community, but we realize that this doesn’t happen on the mission field for our kids. I explain all this to underscore that church is very important to our family, but also complicated to explain to those that are not missionaries.

With this background in mind, here is the issue that has surfaced recently. Our local church has started a youth meeting which meets twice a month on Friday nights. Our children have been and continue to be invited to this church youth meeting, but it is on the same night that our kids have a Bible study/youth event through the school. The kids don’t relate as well to the church group compared to their MK and TCK peer group. We have talked with our kids about the church youth meeting, but they still do not have much of an interest in attending.

I am under pressure by our pastor to have our kids not go to the ministry events that they are a part of (and have been for years) and instead go to the church youth group meeting. Our kids don’t want to go to it. I have recently been told that it is an expectation that our kids would attend the church meeting. I don’t know what would happen if our kids still don’t go to it. I suppose the most extreme possibility would be revoking their membership of the church or asking us to leave our ministry with the church.

Everything that I read and believe to be good parenting given our context tells me not to force our kids to go to the church meeting when they don’t feel comfortable there, especially when they are growing spiritually and being ministered to at the youth ministry that is with their peers and in their heart language.

Am I off base here in saying, “Thanks for the invitation but our kids already have a ministry event that they go to.” Even if the church meeting was moved to a different night, I don’t think they would want to go. Not because they don’t like the people in the church, but because they feel so uncomfortable and are already having their needs met through the school’s ministry.

I was told by the pastor that as a missionary and elder of the church, it sets a poor example if my kids don’t go. And the expectation is that they would be there.

I want to say this situation is not that big of a deal, but I have seen missionaries ousted from national partnership for some pretty little things.

Does anyone have any thoughts regarding this situation?
Dear brother Mantho,
It is good to know that you are evangelical missionary serving in the balkans.
But brother, you must understand your priorities straight that you are serving and working for God not for a national pastor.
I am not trying to condescend your pastor friend. But all the ways that you have been speaking you never mention God. God should be first your priority, then your family and then the ministry.

Dear brother, Mantho, I understand that you, wife and children are trying to be sensitive to the culture norms of the country and the church. But to me, you are not filled enough with the message from the Lord; what am I asking you what the purpose, plans, and will of the Lord is trying to accomplish with you and your family there. You need to get clarity for yourself, wife and children.

I don’t understand why your pastor friend could easily dismiss you and your children on the grounds of not following their traditions.

I find that you need to affiliate with more churches with established truth in the gospel.

I suggest that you remain polite and courteous to your current acquaintances but ask the Holy Spirit to lead you to a better environment for you, your wife and children.

I hope you don’t take offense at what I am saying. I do love you and your family. I rather be bold with you rather than smothering you.
 
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helmut

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Dear brother Mantho,
It is good to know that you are evangelical missionary serving in the balkans.
But brother, you must understand your priorities straight that you are serving and working for God not for a national pastor.
The issue is not just about that pastor, it is about the American and the Albanian way of thinking ("culture"),

That Pastor is prideful and needs to grow up.
No. It is you who need to grow up and learn more about cultural differences, instead of thinking American culture must be universal.
 
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