Original sin, yes, no, or not that important?

Aussie Pete

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What I underlined above is that false idea about the flesh I spoke of. Adam and Eve were not made neutral when God made them flesh. It's because the flesh is not neutral, but is a state of corruption and assigned to death. That seed of death was already in Adam and Eve's flesh before... they committed the sin. When they committed the sin by disobeying God, that is when their spirit became guilty, and the need for the spirit to be saved by Christ Jesus. This is really elementary Bible 101, but some men who like to preach a fleshy salvation have taken the short time before Adam and Eve sinned and try to apply Christ's Salvation to it, but that thinking is a doctrine of devils, like Apostle Paul showed, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption (the flesh) inherit incorruption (spiritual body).
You are accusing God of making man's sin inevitable. That's false. It is the fallen flesh that is sinful. That's why there was the Tree of Life as well as the tree of knowledge. If Adam had eaten from the tree of Life, he would have been immortal. His flesh was not inherently evil. That's why he was naked and not ashamed. The moment he sinned, he became aware of his body and immediately tried to cover up.

Adam was given Kingdom power and authority from the moment he was created. God said that he was good. Incomplete, yes. Corrupt, absolutely not.
 
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Aussie Pete

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You are accusing God of making man's sin inevitable. That's false. It is the fallen flesh that is sinful. That's why there was the Tree of Life as well as the tree of knowledge. If Adam had eaten from the tree of Life, he would have been immortal. His flesh was not inherently evil. That's why he was naked and not ashamed. The moment he sinned, he became aware of his body and immediately tried to cover up.

Adam was given Kingdom power and authority from the moment he was created. God said that he was good. Incomplete, yes. Corrupt, absolutely not.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Spiritual death is the result of sin. To inherit spiritual death from Adam we had to inherit HIS sinfulness, with no personal choice to be against GOD in any way. GOD would never create anyone in the position of being against HIM.

Therefore it is clear to me and quite acceptable that the death we inherited from Adam was physical death so that all the sinful elect could each come into Christ's death in Adam so Christ did not have die once for each of us.

Yes we inherited Adam’s sinful nature but we did not inherit the guilt of His sin. We are not judged by the sin Adam committed we are judged according to the sins we have committed.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Spiritual death is the result of sin. To inherit spiritual death from Adam we had to inherit HIS sinfulness, with no personal choice to be against GOD in any way. GOD would never create anyone in the position of being against HIM.

Therefore it is clear to me and quite acceptable that the death we inherited from Adam was physical death so that all the sinful elect could each come into Christ's death in Adam so Christ did not have die once for each of us.

I’m not sure I’m following you correctly brother Ted. Are you suggesting that each person is born capable of choosing God? I don’t see why Christ would have to die for each person. Do you mean He would have to die multiple times? I don’t see any reason why this would be necessary.
 
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Butterball1

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David was acknowledging that he not only committed sins, but like all human beings he was born with a sinful nature. It isn't an either or situation, its both and all.

My question was if David was born with sin having inherited Adam's sin thus born a sinner per the NIV OR was David born sinless yet born with a sin nature causing him to sin against his will later in life. Big difference.

Does being born with a sinful nature mean one is born a sinner?


coffe4u said:
If someone finds a hundred dollar bill most likely they will take it. Their eyes see it, their mind wants it, their hand takes it.

James 1:15
Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.


Desire is the sin nature. The desire by itself has not yet turned into sin. It is at this point a person has a choice. Do they give in to their sin nature or do they rise above it.
Eve did not have this nature. Left to herself she would have had no thoughts of the fruit being "good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom" Satan gave her the idea.
We don't need Satan to whisper in our ear "You should take that money" We do it all on our own.

James is not describing how one is born.
God created man with desires but it is up to man to control those desires and use them for good rather than evil. James 1:14-15, James shows the source of sin is in one's thoughts (moral choices) not in how one was physically born against his will (sin nature).

coffee4u said:
The Bible is very clear that a change took place inside of Adam and Eve. They were different after they ate the fruit.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


Genesis 3:22

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

We are born already with this change in place. or are you denying the Bible says they changed from before to after eating the fruit? I believe this took place quite literally as written.

Adam and Eve were made in the image of God and that image was marred when they sinned. But I see nothing in the verses you cite they pass on sin or a sin nature to man. Ezekiel 18:20, sin or a sin nature is not passed from one person to another for the soul that sinneth it shall die...one is accountable and culpable and dies for his OWN sin he choose to commit.
 
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Davy

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A righteous spirit cannot inhabit an evil body. Nor do I beleive a body can be evil on its own. This is an imaginative reconciliation but
please consider
that Adam and Eve were already sinners when they were sown into the garden as the word naked, `arm, implies.*

*The word for being unclothed is an entirely different world used of Noah being naked which has NO connotation of being sinful at all whereas the word `arm has both implications to choose from since the same word is used in the very next verse and translated as cunning: Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more CRAFTY, `arm, than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. Crafty is used to describe the extent of the serpent's evil.

What I showed isn't based on that. Understanding God's Word as a whole, to include Apostle Paul's Epistles about the flesh is what I covered. In these latter times, men's false doctrines are ever trying to justify their flesh when our flesh has long ago been assigned to perish with this world. Many brethren wrongly believe there will still be flesh people being born and dying after Christ's future return. There is no such idea written in God's Word for that time. A lot of that wrong thinking comes from the corrupt traditions of the Jews, as many of them don't understand about our spiritual makeup that is not flesh.

The Biblical fact is... flesh = corruption. And corruption cannot inherit the kingdom of God, like Apostle Paul said. So Adam and Eve's condition in the Garden, being made in the flesh, shows corruption from the start, even before they sinned in disobeying God. It's that simple.

1 Cor 15:50-51
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
KJV
 
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Davy

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Perhaps you would like to point out where the Bible says that God's law preceded man's creation.

I already showed that. You evidently didn't see it. In the same 1 John 3 chapter, Apostle John defined sin as the "transgression of the law". How could Satan then have sinned from the beginning if sin is not the transgression of the law?

1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

KJV

John even goes further to show this, when he showed it was for that purpose (because of Satan having sinned) that Jesus was manifested, to destroy the works of the devil. Same idea appears in Hebrews 2:14 which I also covered. 1 Peter 1:19-20 also reveals that Christ was 'foreordained' before the foundation of this world.

So this Message is very clear from God's Word. The devil sinned in the beginning, and this is the reason Lord Jesus was foreordained to manifest in this world to die on the cross in order to defeat the devil and his works. And since 'sin is the transgression of the law' per Apostle John, that means Satan had to have broken God's law when he sinned in that old world before Adam and Eve.

Those who don't like this reveal they don't like what God's Word reveals, because this is straight from God's Word. The idea that the very first sin ever was by Adam and Eve is a doctrine of men, not God's Word.
 
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Davy

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You are accusing God of making man's sin inevitable. That's false.

I'm not accusing my Heavenly Father of anything. His Truth in His Word apparently you don't agree with, which is not my fault.

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


If you don't like what Apostle Paul said there that flesh cannot inherit God's future Kingdom, then I can't help that. There it is plain as day. Flesh cannot... inherit God's Kingdom. Why? Because flesh equals corruption, and corruption cannot inherit God's Kingdom.

So Adam and Eve were made in that flesh corruption state from the start. That means what? That they were perfect, like it was a state of salvation? No, not per what Paul said, because flesh = corruption, and corruption CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God. Why do so many brethren just bypass what Paul said there in 1 Corinthians 15:50? It's because they'd rather heed men's doctrines; can't be any other explanation for not heeding that verse as written.
 
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Davy

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One of the reasons why some reject Scripture showing that flesh = corruption is because of the old false tradition that God made Adam flesh only. Well, He didn't.

Gen 6:3
3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."

KJV

God did not make man flesh only, yet that's what some believe. They dwell on the Genesis 2 creation of Adam when God breathed the breath of life into Adam's flesh and he became a living soul. They wrongly think the flesh has something to do with giving the soul life. Yet in Matthew 10:28 Lord Jesus said to not fear those who can kill the body (flesh) but not the soul, but to fear Him Who can destroy both body and soul in the lake of fire.

Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 also confirms the flesh is separate from our spirit that's inside our flesh. But those same ones think that spirit is just animated life that's in all living things. Matthew 10:28 Jesus showed there's more with that spirit; there's also a soul with one's spirit. Per New Testament doctrine, the soul with spirit can be separated from the flesh, but the soul and spirit cannot be separated from each other. This is what Lord Jesus was trying to show Nicodemus in John 3, the difference between flesh and spirit, as they are two separate operations.

So those who have a difficult time understanding why God created Adam in the flesh have missed the fact that man is not flesh only.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I already showed that. You evidently didn't see it. In the same 1 John 3 chapter, Apostle John defined sin as the "transgression of the law". How could Satan then have sinned from the beginning if sin is not the transgression of the law?

1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

KJV

John even goes further to show this, when he showed it was for that purpose (because of Satan having sinned) that Jesus was manifested, to destroy the works of the devil. Same idea appears in Hebrews 2:14 which I also covered. 1 Peter 1:19-20 also reveals that Christ was 'foreordained' before the foundation of this world.

So this Message is very clear from God's Word. The devil sinned in the beginning, and this is the reason Lord Jesus was foreordained to manifest in this world to die on the cross in order to defeat the devil and his works. And since 'sin is the transgression of the law' per Apostle John, that means Satan had to have broken God's law when he sinned in that old world before Adam and Eve.

Those who don't like this reveal they don't like what God's Word reveals, because this is straight from God's Word. The idea that the very first sin ever was by Adam and Eve is a doctrine of men, not God's Word.
I won't argue the point, but your point is pointless. There is no salvation for Satan and his angels. The issue of sin is vital for the descendants of Adam. It's a non issue for Satan. His fate is sealed.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I'm not accusing my Heavenly Father of anything. His Truth in His Word apparently you don't agree with, which is not my fault.

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


If you don't like what Apostle Paul said there that flesh cannot inherit God's future Kingdom, then I can't help that. There it is plain as day. Flesh cannot... inherit God's Kingdom. Why? Because flesh equals corruption, and corruption cannot inherit God's Kingdom.

So Adam and Eve were made in that flesh corruption state from the start. That means what? That they were perfect, like it was a state of salvation? No, not per what Paul said, because flesh = corruption, and corruption CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God. Why do so many brethren just bypass what Paul said there in 1 Corinthians 15:50? It's because they'd rather heed men's doctrines; can't be any other explanation for not heeding that verse as written.
So God made Adam corrupt? You really believe that?
 
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coffee4u

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My question was if David was born with sin having inherited Adam's sin thus born a sinner per the NIV OR was David born sinless yet born with a sin nature causing him to sin against his will later in life. Big difference.

This will be my last attempt back on this subject because it does not seem like you are actually reading what I am saying.

One last time.
David inherited the changed nature, the corrupted body. Meaning he could sin without having Satan tempt him, because it comes from inside.
He did not inherit Adam's sin.

No one sins against their will. We might sin accidentally, but while sinning people are gaining satisfaction from it, whether it's screaming at someone, taking the rest of the cake to something like murder. Pride and selfishness are the root of most sins.

Does being born with a sinful nature mean one is born a sinner?

We are not born with any sins committed, a fetus cannot commit sin, but it still has the corrupted nature and body. Jesus didn't just die for the sins we will commit he also died for our corrupt nature.
God created Adam and Eve as sinless and innocent. They were designed to commune with God and live forever. Adam's sin severed all of this. Our bodies began to die immediately, our spirit was no longer connected to God and our soul/mind ruled.

In one sense we are not born a sinner since we have not yet committed any sins but in another sense we are born a sinner because we come with a corrupted body, soul and spirit.


James is not describing how one is born.
Where did I say he was? Again you are not really reading what I am saying. It describes perfectly how desire comes first. Desire is the sinful nature. The actual sin isn't the desire or the thought, the sin comes after that.

Where does the desire to sin come from?
Does it not come from our own mind and body?

Can you honestly not see the difference between thinking about sinning and actually going and doing the deed?

David had the thought about having Bathsheba's husband killed in battle. At that point after he first had the thought he could have stopped and turned to God. He could have repented and prayed about this terrible thought. He didn't, he thought and then he went through with it. This is a perfect example of this verse in action.
James 1:15
Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.


God created man with desires but it is up to man to control those desires and use them for good rather than evil. James 1:14-15, James shows the source of sin is in one's thoughts (moral choices) not in how one was physically born against his will (sin nature).

When I say desires I mean it the way James uses it there, the desire to sin.
God did not create Adam and Eve with the desire to sin.
Satan knew the only way he could cause them to sin was if an outside force came to them and planted the idea.

Adam and Eve were made in the image of God and that image was marred when they sinned.
This marring is the sinful nature and the dying body.
When God said you shall die, he meant body, soul and spirit.

But I see nothing in the verses you cite they pass on sin or a sin nature to man. Ezekiel 18:20, sin or a sin nature is not passed from one person to another for the soul that sinneth it shall die...one is accountable and culpable and dies for his OWN sin he choose to commit.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--
How else does death come from one man to all men except through inheritance?


1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

Romans 7:23
But I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

Romans 5:19
For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Even the unborn are not righteous in and of themselves, their righteousness comes from Jesus.
 
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Davy

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I won't argue the point, but your point is pointless. There is no salvation for Satan and his angels. The issue of sin is vital for the descendants of Adam. It's a non issue for Satan. His fate is sealed.

I never said anything about salvation being offered to Satan. You've gone off on a tangent.
 
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Davy

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So God made Adam corrupt? You really believe that?

God made flesh corrupt. That ought to be easy to know, even as Apostle Paul reveals that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption (flesh) inherit incorruption.

Possibly you think the real you is made up of flesh. It is not.

The real 'you' dwells inside your flesh body, and is made up of spirit with a soul attached to it. When or if you die before Jesus returns, your flesh body goes back to the earthly materials elements where God took it from, but your spirit/soul goes back to God Who gave it. Solomon showed this in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 and Lord Jesus showed it in Matthew 10:28, and Apostle Paul showed this in 2 Corinthians 5.
 
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Butterball1

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This will be my last attempt back on this subject because it does not seem like you are actually reading what I am saying.

One last time.
David inherited the changed nature, the corrupted body. Meaning he could sin without having Satan tempt him, because it comes from inside.
He did not inherit Adam's sin.

No one sins against their will. We might sin accidentally, but while sinning people are gaining satisfaction from it, whether it's screaming at someone, taking the rest of the cake to something like murder. Pride and selfishness are the root of most sins.


Romans 5:19
For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
You keep arguing about Adam's sin. No one is saying we inherited his sin. Original Sin is not Adams sin. When he sinned his inner nature changed, we inherited this changed nature. The propensity to sin.

Above in blue is what is posted to me earlier (with my emphasis).

You say above we do not inherit Adam's sin, yet people use Psalms 51:5 to say we DO in fact inherit Adam's sin. So either you are wrong or they are wrong.

Question: "Did we all inherit sin from Adam and Eve?"

Answer: Yes, all people inherited sin from Adam and Eve, specifically from Adam. Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18). Genesis 3 describes Adam and Eve’s rebellion against God and His command. Because of Adam and Eve’s disobedience, sin has been an “inheritance” for all of their descendants. Romans 5:12 tells us that, through Adam, sin entered the world and so death was passed on to all men because all have sinned. This passed-on sin is known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful nature from Adam.......David inherited sin from his parents, just as we all do. Even if we live the best life possible, we are still sinners as a result of inherited sin."
Did we all inherit sin from Adam and Eve? | GotQuestions.org


The above in blue is from I believe to be a Calvinists website called "Got Questions" and in the Q&A above, as you can read for yourself, it says "Yes, all people inherited sin from Adam and Eve."

Again, you told me we do not inherit Adam's sin. So you are wrong or they are wrong.

What I have been pointing out and trying to get you to comment on is
inheriting sin from Adam is not the same as inheriting a 'propensity to sin' from Adam. The above site says one inherits BOTH sin from Adam and also inherits a sin nature from Adam.

If you are correct and David did not inherit Adam's sin at birth therefore he was not born a sinner contrary to the NIV and the above cite "Got Questions" which says he was born a sinner having inherited Adam's sin.

Your position is David was not born having inherited sin but born with a nature/propensity to sin.

So are you wrong or is the people at Got Questions wrong?

====================

James never said "desire" is sinful nature. You said that, not James.

1) The idea of being born with a sinful nature means that nature causes man to sin against his will, making man a victim of sin. God cannot justly condemn man for a nature he was born with against his that forces man to sin.

2) God created man with desires (not a sinful nature) whereby it is up to man to choose to control those desires and use them for good and not evil. God can justly condemn man for the willful choices he makes in how man chooses to use those desires, for good (married couples having sex to have children) or evil (unmarried couples fornicating for fleshly pleasure). Man was not born with 'sin nature' that causes him to sin (fonicate) against his will.

The difference between 1 and 2 above is:

Number 1 causes man to sin against his will (fornicate) due to a physical nature he was born with against his will therefore cannot be justly held accountable for his sins.


Number 2 shows man has a free choice in what he chooses to do. Man fornicates for he chose to do so of his own free will and not due to a "nature' that forces him to sin. Therefore God CAN justly hold man accountable for the moral choices he freely makes.

Another example:
A friend buys a new house & I go over to look at it. I ask him to pick the house up so I can see how the foundation was put in. He says "no". His "no" is based upon a physical 'natural' inability he was born with. It is impossible for him to physically pick up that house and was absurd on my part to even ask him even more absrub if I hold him accountable for not picking it up. Hence God cannot justly hold men accountable for a 'natural inability they were born with (as a sin nature) that forces them to sin.

I ask my friend to sell me his new house for one dollar. Again he says "no". This time his "no" answer is NOT based on a 'natural inability' he was born with (for he can sell me the house) but is based up-on a moral inability in choosing not to sell me the house. God can hold men accountable for moral inability in choosing to say 'no'. God has commanded men to believe, men can believe if he so chooses but instead says "no" to God. God justly holds accountable those who freely chose to say 'no'.

So there is an obvious difference in a 'natural inability' man is born with (not lift a house) which is an impossibility and a moral inability where man freely chooses 'no' when he can choose 'yes'. (Genesis 4:7). God does not hold man justly accountable for a 'natural inability' man is born with against his will but God CAN justly hold man accountable for moral choices man freely makes using his free will.

You cite several verses, I do not have time to go over all but choose this one:
Romans 5:19

For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

--This verse does NOT say men are made sinners UNconditionally nor more than it says many are made righteous UNconditionally. People ASSUME the verse teaches men are made sinners UNconditionally having inherited sin/sin nature from Adam. Men no more UNconditinally inherit sin than they inherit righteousness. Men are CONDITIONALLY made sinners when they choose to sin (moral choice, not natural inability born with forcing men to choose to sin.) Men are CONDITIONALLY made righteous when man freely chooses (moral ability to choose to have faith, (Romans 5:1).

19 (a)
For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners,
19 (b)
so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Paul is showing if 19a is true, then 19b is just as equally true. So if (a) 'proves' men are UNCONDITIONALLY made sinners due to Adam's disobedience then (b) 'proves' those same men are UNCONDITIONALLY made righteous by Christ's obedience and you have Universalism in all men being saved.

But Paul NEVER said men are UNCONDITIONALLY made sinners. People ASSUME this UNCONDITIONALITY into 19(a) to try and prove original sin but convienently do not assume it into 19(b) for that idea causes Universalism. They are not being consistent in their assuming.





 
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coffee4u

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You keep arguing about Adam's sin. No one is saying we inherited his sin. Original Sin is not Adams sin. When he sinned his inner nature changed, we inherited this changed nature. The propensity to sin.

Above in blue is what is posted to me earlier (with my emphasis).

You say above we do not inherit Adam's sin, yet people use Psalms 51:5 to say we DO in fact inherit Adam's sin. So either you are wrong or they are wrong.

Question: "Did we all inherit sin from Adam and Eve?"

Answer: Yes, all people inherited sin from Adam and Eve, specifically from Adam. Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18). Genesis 3 describes Adam and Eve’s rebellion against God and His command. Because of Adam and Eve’s disobedience, sin has been an “inheritance” for all of their descendants. Romans 5:12 tells us that, through Adam, sin entered the world and so death was passed on to all men because all have sinned. This passed-on sin is known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful nature from Adam.......David inherited sin from his parents, just as we all do. Even if we live the best life possible, we are still sinners as a result of inherited sin."
Did we all inherit sin from Adam and Eve? | GotQuestions.org


The above in blue is from I believe to be a Calvinists website called "Got Questions" and in the Q&A above, as you can read for yourself, it says "Yes, all people inherited sin from Adam and Eve."

Again, you told me we do not inherit Adam's sin. So you are wrong or they are wrong.

What I have been pointing out and trying to get you to comment on is
inheriting sin from Adam is not the same as inheriting a 'propensity to sin' from Adam. The above site says one inherits BOTH sin from Adam and also inherits a sin nature from Adam.

If you are correct and David did not inherit Adam's sin at birth therefore he was not born a sinner contrary to the NIV and the above cite "Got Questions" which says he was born a sinner having inherited Adam's sin.

Your position is David was not born having inherited sin but born with a nature/propensity to sin.

So are you wrong or is the people at Got Questions wrong?

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James never said "desire" is sinful nature. You said that, not James.

1) The idea of being born with a sinful nature means that nature causes man to sin against his will, making man a victim of sin. God cannot justly condemn man for a nature he was born with against his that forces man to sin.

2) God created man with desires (not a sinful nature) whereby it is up to man to choose to control those desires and use them for good and not evil. God can justly condemn man for the willful choices he makes in how man chooses to use those desires, for good (married couples having sex to have children) or evil (unmarried couples fornicating for fleshly pleasure). Man was not born with 'sin nature' that causes him to sin (fonicate) against his will.

The difference between 1 and 2 above is:

Number 1 causes man to sin against his will (fornicate) due to a physical nature he was born with against his will therefore cannot be justly held accountable for his sins.


Number 2 shows man has a free choice in what he chooses to do. Man fornicates for he chose to do so of his own free will and not due to a "nature' that forces him to sin. Therefore God CAN justly hold man accountable for the moral choices he freely makes.

Another example:
A friend buys a new house & I go over to look at it. I ask him to pick the house up so I can see how the foundation was put in. He says "no". His "no" is based upon a physical 'natural' inability he was born with. It is impossible for him to physically pick up that house and was absurd on my part to even ask him even more absrub if I hold him accountable for not picking it up. Hence God cannot justly hold men accountable for a 'natural inability they were born with (as a sin nature) that forces them to sin.

I ask my friend to sell me his new house for one dollar. Again he says "no". This time his "no" answer is NOT based on a 'natural inability' he was born with (for he can sell me the house) but is based up-on a moral inability in choosing not to sell me the house. God can hold men accountable for moral inability in choosing to say 'no'. God has commanded men to believe, men can believe if he so chooses but instead says "no" to God. God justly holds accountable those who freely chose to say 'no'.

So there is an obvious difference in a 'natural inability' man is born with (not lift a house) which is an impossibility and a moral inability where man freely chooses 'no' when he can choose 'yes'. (Genesis 4:7). God does not hold man justly accountable for a 'natural inability' man is born with against his will but God CAN justly hold man accountable for moral choices man freely makes using his free will.

You cite several verses, I do not have time to go over all but choose this one:
Romans 5:19

For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

--This verse does NOT say men are made sinners UNconditionally nor more than it says many are made righteous UNconditionally. People ASSUME the verse teaches men are made sinners UNconditionally having inherited sin/sin nature from Adam. Men no more UNconditinally inherit sin than they inherit righteousness. Men are CONDITIONALLY made sinners when they choose to sin (moral choice, not natural inability born with forcing men to choose to sin.) Men are CONDITIONALLY made righteous when man freely chooses (moral ability to choose to have faith, (Romans 5:1).

19 (a)
For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners,
19 (b)
so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Paul is showing if 19a is true, then 19b is just as equally true. So if (a) 'proves' men are UNCONDITIONALLY made sinners due to Adam's disobedience then (b) 'proves' those same men are UNCONDITIONALLY made righteous by Christ's obedience and you have Universalism in all men being saved.

But Paul NEVER said men are UNCONDITIONALLY made sinners. People ASSUME this UNCONDITIONALITY into 19(a) to try and prove original sin but convienently do not assume it into 19(b) for that idea causes Universalism. They are not being consistent in their assuming.

I am not wading through all of that text or rehashing answers I already gave.

Man was created in innocence. The whole point of the garden of Eden was to show man a glimpse of how it will be in the New Heavens and New Earth. But it was only a shadow of what is to come. It wasn't designed to be lasting because God knew it wouldn't be. He knew the fall would happen and that Jesus would die to save us. But man still got his chance.

Adam and Eve had no thoughts of sin in their heads, the same way there will be no thought of sin in the New Heavens and New earth. John was also given a glimpse of it.
But the New Heaven and Earth will not have Satan roaming around unlike the garden of Eden.

So no neither Adam or Eve had to have to look at that tree and tell himself not to sin, because such thoughts came with the corrupted body.
It took an outside force-Satan- to cause them to think about disobeying.
They sinned, their body and spirit changed, Adam passed it on.
Babies are not born like Adam and Eve with a spirit in perfect communication to God and a perfect never dying body like they had.
We inherited that changed body and spirit. It's why we are separated from God and need a savior, it is why we die.
When God said
"until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

He meant literal death.
No one forced us to sin, we do so willingly.

Point me to these posts where people have claimed Psalms 51:5 to say we inherit Adam's sin. I think you will find they mean the sin nature.
And if someone does think we inherit Adam's actual sin you will find a view that isn't what is generally meant by it.
 
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