The Holy Spirit As The Down Payment of Our Inheritance

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Clare73

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Paul’s warning here is to people who are “sealed with the Holy Spirit”. He’s warning them not to turn to this sinful way of life. What he is telling them is that they are capable of turning back to sin and capable of once again becoming a son of disobedience. A person who continuously grieves the Holy Spirit is a sin of disobedience.
Children of God are not disobedient. Those who continue to grieve the Holy Spirit are acting in disobedience.
But if children of God are not disobedient, then the disobedient who continue to grieve the Holy Spirit are not the children of God, right?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Earnest (arrhabon) is a down payment (1Co 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:14).
That's helpful to know, I was reflecting on how what Jesus said at the cross "it is finished" appears on Roman tax receipts meaning "paid in full"
 
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Hazelelponi

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Please include scripture references in your response
Acts 1:8
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

Paul here does not seem to be talking about "being endued with power" as in Acts 1.
2 Corinthians 1:
21
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who
also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee [down payment].

Ephesians 1:
11
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according
to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

This sounds more akin to how circumcision is a sign of covenant with Israel.
Any thoughts?

In a sense I agree with you. A pastor whom I believe to be spirit filled once described it as the guarantor (a legal term then as now) on our salvation.

When you buy a house you give them a check 30 days before closing that acts as a guarantor that you'll show up on closing day with the full amount, and if you fail to show up on that day, they keep both that check and the house.

The Holy Spirit is God's guarantor on our salvation, therefore the only way to lose our salvation is for God to stop being God (because God won't lose the 3rd person of the trinity)...

So in one sense it's a sign of the covenant promise, but it's more than that, as its used as a guarantee, a thing circumcision never did, thus making it "a better covenant than the one I made with your father's." Hebrews 8 which also refers to Jeremiah 31:31-34.
 
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BNR32FAN

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But if children of God are not disobedient, then the disobedient who continue to grieve the Holy Spirit are not the children of God, right?

No not at the time they are grieving the Holy Spirit. A child of God can become a son of disobedience. If a child of God who is sealed with the Holy Spirit is incapable of doing these things that Paul was warning them about in Ephesians 4 & 5 then it wouldn’t make any sense to even mention it to them.
 
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Clare73

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No not at the time they are grieving the Holy Spirit. A child of God can become a son of disobedience. If a child of God who is sealed with the Holy Spirit is incapable of doing these things that Paul was warning them about in Ephesians 4 & 5 then it wouldn’t make any sense to even mention it to them.
Paul does not state that the sons of God to whom he is writing are guilty of sexual immorality, impurity, greed, idolatry.

The new Christians are all Gentiles living in Ephesus, a very immoral city. They have to be brought out of ignorance and instructed regarding what being a Christian means, how they are to live. Paul's reference points for these instructions are the unconverted Gentiles of the new Christians' former lifestyle. He warns them of the things being practiced by the Gentiles among whom they still live, and informs them that these practices must not be found among them, who are sons of God, for those who practice such are sons of disobedience, whose destiny is the wrath of God.

The sons/children of God are not subject to God's wrath. That sentence was forever removed when they believed and trusted in the atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin, were given eternal life, and placed in a right relationship of fellowship with God.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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In a sense I agree with you. A pastor whom I believe to be spirit filled once described it as the guarantor (a legal term then as now) on our salvation.

When you buy a house you give them a check 30 days before closing that acts as a guarantor that you'll show up on closing day with the full amount, and if you fail to show up on that day, they keep both that check and the house.

The Holy Spirit is God's guarantor on our salvation, therefore the only way to lose our salvation is for God to stop being God (because God won't lose the 3rd person of the trinity)...

So in one sense it's a sign of the covenant promise, but it's more than that, as its used as a guarantee, a thing circumcision never did, thus making it "a better covenant than the one I made with your father's." Hebrews 8 which also refers to Jeremiah 31:31-34.
That's pretty poetic, we can only not be saved if God stops breathing.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Paul does not state that the sons of God to whom he is writing are guilty of sexual immorality, impurity, greed, idolatry.

He is warning them of doing these things which means that they are capable of doing them otherwise the warning is completely stupid. You don’t warn someone of doing something that is impossible do you? How stupid would that be.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The sons/children of God are not subject to God's wrath. That sentence was forever removed when they believed and trusted in the atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin, were given eternal life, and placed in a right relationship of fellowship with God.

They still have to remain in Christ to receive salvation. It’s not completed if they have to abide and endure to the end.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Paul's reference points for these instructions are the unconverted Gentiles of the new Christians' former lifestyle. He warns them of the things being practiced by the Gentiles among whom they still live, and informs them that these practices must not be found among them, who are sons of God, for those who practice such are sons of disobedience, whose destiny is the wrath of God

This statement makes it clear that children of God can become sons of disobedience.


“Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
 
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Clare73

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He is warning them of doing these things which means that they are capable of doing them otherwise the warning is completely stupid. You don’t warn someone of doing something that is impossible do you? How stupid would that be.
He is warning them of doing these things which means that they are capable of doing them otherwise the warning is completely stupid. You don’t warn someone of doing something that is impossible do you? How stupid would that be.
Thanks. . .addressed in post #25.
 
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Clare73

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This statement makes it clear that children of God can become sons of disobedience.


“Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
He warns them that if they continue in such practices after becoming Christians, it will demonstrate that they are Christians in name only--sons of disobedience, and not true born-again Christians--sons of God.
 
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BNR32FAN

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He warns them that if they continue in such practices after becoming Christians, it will demonstrate that they are Christians in name only--sons of disobedience, and not true born-again Christians--sons of God.

“Christians in name only” where is that ever stated anywhere in the Bible? No what it actually means is that they believed for a while then later fell away just like Jesus said would happen to the seeds that fell among the rocky soil. They failed to remain in Christ. We all grieve the Holy Spirit from time to time but those who continuously grieve Him without repentance have become sons of disobedience. I’m curious why you don’t believe it is possible for a child of God to fall away and once again become a son of disobedience?
 
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Clare73

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“Christians in name only” where is that ever stated anywhere in the Bible? No what it actually means is that they believed for a while then later fell away just like Jesus said would happen to the seeds that fell among the rocky soil. They failed to remain in Christ. We all grieve the Holy Spirit from time to time but those who continuously grieve Him without repentance have become sons of disobedience. I’m curious why you don’t believe it is possible for a child of God to fall away and once again become a son of disobedience?
They aren't "stated," they are found in, for starters
the seed which withered because it had no root (true faith),
the seed which was choked out (no perseverance),
those whose going out was to show they did not belong to us (the body of Christ)--1Jn 2:19,
any new Hebrew Christians who returned to Judaism (Heb 2:1-4, 4:1-3, 5:11-6:12, 11:1-38, 12:14-28).
 
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BNR32FAN

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They aren't "stated," they are found in, for starters
the seed which withered because it had no root (true faith),
the seed which was choked out (no perseverance),
those whose going out was to show they did not belong to us (the body of Christ)--1Jn 2:19,
any new Hebrew Christians who returned to Judaism (Heb 2:1-4, 4:1-3, 5:11-6:12, 11:1-38, 12:14-28).

There’s nothing in that verse that says they didn’t have true faith. Jesus said they believed.

“Those on the rocky soil are the ones who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and yet these do not have a firm root; they believe for a while, and in a time of temptation they fall away.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

No one can believe unless they have been granted grace by The Father. Your partial quote of 1 John 2:19 is way out of context. That verse was written about antichrists who spread lies about Christ. Not everyone who falls away falls into that category and furthermore John was speaking about a specific group of people. Hence the use of the word “They”. This doesn’t imply that everyone who goes out was not a true believer at one time. John 15:2 He cuts off every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit. Surely you would not say that these branches were not in Christ when He specifically said that they are. The same applies to Galatians 5:4.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

You can’t rightfully say that these people were never in Christ if Paul specifically said that they were severed from Christ.

I don’t see how Hebrews 2 is relevant to this discussion can you please elaborate?

Hebrews 4 doesn’t say that these people ever believed to begin with. This is in reference to those who heard the gospel and didn’t believe, not those who heard it and believed then later fell away. Hebrews 4 never says that they believed.

Hebrews 6 supports my position that people can partake of the Holy Spirit and fall away. Tell me do you receive the Holy Spirit before you repent and believe or after?

“For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
 
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Clare73

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There’s nothing in that verse that says they didn’t have true faith. Jesus said they believed.

“Those on the rocky soil are the ones who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and yet these do not have a firm root; they believe for a while, and in a time of temptation they fall away.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

No one can believe unless they have been granted grace by The Father. Your partial quote of 1 John 2:19 is way out of context. That verse was written about antichrists who spread lies about Christ. Not everyone who falls away falls into that category and furthermore John was speaking about a specific group of people. Hence the use of the word “They”. This doesn’t imply that everyone who goes out was not a true believer at one time. John 15:2 He cuts off every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit. Surely you would not say that these branches were not in Christ when He specifically said that they are. The same applies to Galatians 5:4.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

You can’t rightfully say that these people were never in Christ if Paul specifically said that they were severed from Christ.

I don’t see how Hebrews 2 is relevant to this discussion can you please elaborate?

Hebrews 4 doesn’t say that these people ever believed to begin with. This is in reference to those who heard the gospel and didn’t believe, not those who heard it and believed then later fell away. Hebrews 4 never says that they believed.

Hebrews 6 supports my position that people can partake of the Holy Spirit and fall away. Tell me do you receive the Holy Spirit before you repent and believe or after?

“For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
Could you call it counterfeit "faith" if they didn't profess belief?

The real source of our difference is
1) God's foreknowledge--"Known to the Lord for ages is his work." (Ac 15:18)--God's knowledge of what is going to happen is because he has decreed that is what he is going to do (Ac 2:23, 4:8; Isa 37:26, 48:3).

God's foreknowledge does not mean he knows what we are going to do (persevere) and bases his actions (predestine, call, justify, glorify) on what we do.
It means he knows what he is going to do (glorify us) and decrees his action accordingly--predestining, calling, justifying and glorifying.
Because he has decreed it, in heaven it is a completed action.

It's his own work that he has foreknowledge of, because he is the one who has decreed that it shall be done.


2) God's predestination - "For those who God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he (the Son) might be the firstborn/chief (Col 1:15, 18; Heb 1:6) among many brethren. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." (Ro 8:29-30)

Note the past tense of predestined, called, justified, glorified. . .it's already done--a done deal, completed and sealed with the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.

You view is that it is questionable to the end, whereas the NT views it as completed at the beginning, through true faith and trust in the person and work of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of one's sin and setting in right relationship with God, permanently, being set on a path of sanctification through obedience to make them more holy and pleasing to God, who has already permanently adopted and made them his sons.
First the adoption, then the growth in the position through the work of the Holy Spirit in obedience. God does not ever reject those whom he has adopted. What Father does that? If God rejects you, it's because he never adopted you, which is demonstrated in your counterfeit faith which does not persevere (1Jn 2:19).

Salvation belongs to the Lord (Rev 7:10), not to our good behavior--which is the necessary result of our salvation, not its cause.
 
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Clare73

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This doesn’t address the situation in John 15:2 or Galatians 5:4.
Good question. . .perhaps post #35, above, will help.

Jn 15:2 - "He takes away every branch that bears no fruit in me."
Jesus told us there would be tares/fruitless branches (counterfeit faith) as well as wheat/fruit-bearing branches (true faith) in the professing Church (Mt 13:25-30).

Gal 5:4 - "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace."
They have abandoned grace.

Grace = justification by faith without works (Ro 4:5) whereas justification by faith + works (the law) is not grace, it's merit, and they are mutually exclusive. The one necessarily excludes the other. If your justification is by faith + works, you have excluded, fallen from, grace which is justification without works (2Pe 3:17).
 
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BNR32FAN

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Jn 15:2 - "He takes away every branch that bears no fruit in me."
Jesus told us there would be tares/fruitless branches (counterfeit faith) as well as wheat/fruit-bearing branches (true faith) in the professing Church (Mt 13:25-30).

No this doesn’t work and I’ll explain why. No one can come to Christ unless The Father draws him. Who planted the tares? The evil one. So the wheat and tares example doesn’t fit the situation here since these branches are in Christ.
 
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Gal 5:4 - "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace."
They have abandoned grace =m which is

Grace = justification by faith without works (Ro 4:5) whereas justification by faith + works (the law) is not grace, it's merit, and they are mutually exclusive. The one necessarily excludes the other. If your justification is by faith + works, you have excluded/fallen from grace, which is justification without works (2Pe 3:17).

Still the fact remains that they were severed from Christ which means they had faith then later turned to Judaism. Notice Paul says “You were running well, who hindered you from obeying the truth”. They had faith but were persuaded to turn to Judaism. False professors are not in Christ. You have to have a true faith to be in Christ.
 
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