Are You Doing Enough?

Hazelelponi

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Believe what and confess what? It is not free. I must do something for it as you just said. God requires something from us to forgive us. No one seems to know why He can't just forgive us without any requirements yet asks us to do that very thing.

Acts of the Apostles 17:24-28
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Acts of the Apostles 17:24-28
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring
Can you explain how this answers my question please. Are you saying that he wants us to know he exists before he will save us?
 
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Hazelelponi

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Can you explain how this answers my question please. Are you saying that he wants us to know he exists before he will save us?

Don't you know Scripture? He wants us to seek a relationship with Him, the God and Creator of the Heavens and the earth... seek and you will find.

Have you ever prayed in desperation to know more of Him?
 
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cvanwey

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1. God predestined prior to man’s time beginning to save all those who humbly accept His charity, but not individuals by name.

2. A newly conceived baby starts out in a “safe” condition not needing to be saved, because the baby has not sinned, yet.

3. Shortly after reaching the age of accountability the person rebelliously disobeys God (sins) and is in need of salvation.

4. The person becomes hell bound, without reason to “Love” God and the desire for the perceived pleasures of sin makes God his/her hated enemy.

5. Sins (acts of hurting others) burdens the person’s heart for at least a while (until the heart becomes hard)?

6. The actions of the person put them in a deadly spiral of hurt with no way to personally rescue themselves.

7. The person attempts to seek and find an escape.

8. The truth about their enemy God is presented to him/her while they are spiraling down to the pigsty of life at times they come to their senses, so they have the opportunity to make an autonomous free will choice to be macho, hang in there, pay the piper and be willing to accept the punishment they fully deserve or they can wimp out, give up on self and surrender to their enemy in hopes/trust/faith of just the possibility the enemy might provide undeserved charity.

9. God showers the person who is still hating Him, with unbelievable wonderful gifts including eternal life, Love, fellowship, new friends, new family, purpose, and a home in heaven.

10. As a result of this Godly type Love and out of gratitude for all these wonderful gifts the person wants to join God’s army, be obedient to God, be baptized, be His child, accept being crucified with Christ (God’s Loving disciplining) and Love others.

11. With this new Godly type Love and with the little faith the person has shown, the Love and faith can now grow with use, to be more and more like Christ.

1. If God already knows the outcome, God is ultimately watching 're-runs'.
2. Some Christian varieties believe in 'original sin', and require baptism to be cleansed of this burden prior to possible access to Heaven. Are these Christians incorrect? If so, how do you know?
3. Many do not reach the 'age of accountability'. And furthermore, some will not ever do so; and not by their own choosing. If these humans don't, do they receive a 'free pass'? If so, does this mean 'original sin' is false, if they are not baptized prior to death?
4. All will 'sin', no matter what. 'Sin' is then ultimately arbitrary, if the doctrine to salvation is "grace by faith". All 'sin' is deemed bad. The only unforgivable 'sin' is apparently unbelief.


The rest is deemed unnecessary to address at this time...
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Don't you know Scripture? He wants us to seek a relationship with Him, the God and Creator of the Heavens and the earth... seek and you will find.
Again, why is there requirements to be forgiven? If the answer is just that what he wants then ok.

Have you ever prayed in desperation to know more of Him?
Absolutely. Many times. He either decided not to answer me or maybe He does not exist.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Again, why is there requirements to be forgiven? If the answer is just that what he wants then ok.

Absolutely. Many times. He either decided not to answer me or maybe He does not exist.


believing in God, when evidence of His existence surrounds you, and believing in The Messiah, and His work for our salvation, is hardly a requirement or a work.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I tried that for decades, and nothing :(

Sometimes it takes a while.. just keep reaching out.

After I was saved I realised everything in my life had led to that one point in time, when I finally understood and was saved. I was in my late 40's.
 
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cvanwey

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Sometimes it takes a while.. just keep reaching out.

I tried countless times. To repeat the same activity, over and over again, which produces the same result, but I continue to do so anyways, expecting a different result - is the classic example of insanity.


After I was saved I realised everything in my life had led to that one point in time, when I finally understood... I was in my late 40's.

I might be older than you. Which means, I probably tried more than you. I concluded one of two things:

1. God exists, and does not care to respond; to the point of me deciding not to ask any longer?
2. There exists no such God?

Which anecdotal testimonial leads us to truth? Yours or mine? :)




 
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Hazelelponi

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I tried countless times. To repeat the same activity, over and over again, which produces the same result, but I continue to do so anyways, expecting a different result - is the classic example of insanity.



I might be older than you. Which means, I probably tried more than you. I concluded one of two things:

1. God exists, and does not care to respond; to the point of me deciding not to ask any longer?
2. There exists no such God?

Which anecdotal testimonial leads us to truth? Yours or mine? :)




Luke 18:1-8
 
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cvanwey

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Luke 18:1-8

You did not answer my question. Which anecdotal testimonial leads us to truth, yours or mine?

You can always play 'Texas sharp shooter" and find a Verse or passage to support [your] position; especially from the Bible.

It's called "accepting the hits and ignoring the misses."
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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believing in God, when evidence of His existence surrounds you, and believing in The Messiah, and His work for our salvation, is hardly a requirement or a work.
Where is the convincing evidence? And believing in him no matter how easy is a requirement for forgiveness according to you as I understand you.
 
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Hazelelponi

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You did not answer my question. Which anecdotal testimonial leads us to truth, yours or mine?

You can always play 'Texas sharp shooter" and find a Verse or passage to support [your] position; especially from the Bible.

It's called "accepting the hits and ignoring the misses."

Believe whatever you like... no one forces you to any thing... we all make choices, and accept the consequences for those choices. Choose away.
 
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Par5

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believing in God, when evidence of His existence surrounds you, and believing in The Messiah, and His work for our salvation, is hardly a requirement or a work.
What evidence of existence are you talking about?
 
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cvanwey

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Believe whatever you like... no one forces you to any thing... we all make choices, and accept the consequences for those choices. Choose away.

Okay, you apparently do not want to engage.

And BTW, belief is not a choice. If belief is a choice, you can choose to believe you are made of pudding.

I did not choose not to believe. I do not believe because I prayed to this asserted God for decades, and never received a response. Hence, I doubt His existence.
 
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Moral Orel

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I answered them shortly after you posted them
You did not. You quoted me and then you wrote things, yes. That doesn't mean you answered anything. As I said, I'll be around if you want to have a discussion.
 
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Moral Orel

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Like "pick me, pick me"? Lol... thats not salvation. There's nothing "we can do" to stand out and look better than anyone else.
No, that's not what I said at all. You don't believe in any kind of judgement in the end?
 
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BNR32FAN

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I understand. But ultimately we need to do something to be saved. Or do all people receiving grace get saved?

No not all who receive grace will be saved.

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and restraint and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL REPAY EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life; but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Despite God’s kindness leading them to repentance (His grace) they are storing up for themselves God’s wrath on judgement day. No one can come to repentance without receiving grace.

Jesus says this to His 11 faithful apostles who also received God’s grace.

““I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Remain in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself but must remain in the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; the one who remains in Me, and I in him bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you remain in Me, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

This is a clear indication that even His 11 faithful apostles were capable of failing to remain in Him and if they should fall away without repenting they would be cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned. Also in verse 2 the branches that are cut off for not bearing fruit were in Christ which would be impossible if they had not received God’s grace.

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Look! For three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, leave it alone for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Notice that even tho the tree will receive special attention (God’s grace) the outcome is still uncertain whether or not the tree will bear fruit or whether or not it will be cut down.

This next verse speaks for itself.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yes, and it was not changed because the person did not know why it needed to be changed. Why do I need grace to be saved? All you have said is that god says so.

I knew this would happen. Your changing the subject again. That’s not what we were talking about. The original “why question” was why can’t we expect to receive salvation if we do not repent. Then you changed the question to “Why can’t God forgive us without punishment”. Now again we’re on a whole different question, “why do I need grace to be saved”. This conversation is going nowhere because you keep changing the subject.

Ok, then we do need to work for salvation in some way. We need to do something. It is not a free gift.

Yes God does have expectations of His children. Surely we can’t continue to refuse to repent and still expect to receive salvation can we? If these people continue in their stubbornness and unrepentant heart do you think they will receive salvation or will they receive God’s righteous judgement and wrath on judgement day?


Because Romans 2 says so.

That does not answer my question. Why can God not forgive us without punishment? You and I can do that for others.

You’ve changed the question again. I never said God cannot forgive a person who doesn’t repent, I said He won’t according to Romans 2. You did this before on the subject of atheists being saved you added the stipulation of them being saved after they die which changed the entire meaning of your original post. Now if your asking why God can’t forgive someone who doesn’t repent then my answer is I don’t know. I’m not aware of any scriptures that give any reason why God can’t forgive those who don’t repent other than because He is just and will judge each person according to their deeds. I don’t think these actually answer the question why but rather explain what He will do not why He has chosen to

Why won't he? This has been my question? You and I can forgive others without them repenting. Why won't God do it?

Well that’s neither here nor there because the scriptures don’t tell us why. We could make a thousand speculations and be wrong a thousand times and even if we were right on one of them we still wouldn’t
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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No not all who receive grace will be saved.

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and restraint and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL REPAY EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life; but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Despite God’s kindness leading them to repentance (His grace) they are storing up for themselves God’s wrath on judgement day. No one can come to repentance without receiving grace.

Jesus says this to His 11 faithful apostles who also received God’s grace.

““I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Remain in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself but must remain in the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; the one who remains in Me, and I in him bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you remain in Me, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

This is a clear indication that even His 11 faithful apostles were capable of failing to remain in Him and if they should fall away without repenting they would be cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned. Also in verse 2 the branches that are cut off for not bearing fruit were in Christ which would be impossible if they had not received God’s grace.

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Look! For three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, leave it alone for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Notice that even tho the tree will receive special attention (God’s grace) the outcome is still uncertain whether or not the tree will bear fruit or whether or not it will be cut down.

This next verse speaks for itself.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
So you agree that we need to do something to receive eternal life/salvation etc. Free grace is not enough.
 
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