Rapture vs. Second Coming

Bro.T

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Yes, so when you read the book of Matthew, always recognize that Jesus was only sent to Israel during that time.

So whatever he is saying, don't just apply it to the Body of Christ without further thinking.

I'm still missing your point. Give me an example of what you mean using scriptures and verses, please.
 
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Davy

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I take what Christ said in Matthew 15:24 literally, but if you don't wish to, that is up to you.

That's my point, I am taking what Lord Jesus said there literally, it's just that I'm more familiar with the Bible history about Israel than you are. After God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms in Solomon's days, only the ten tribes of the northern kingdom was known as the "house of Israel".
 
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nolidad

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I haven't interpret anything it's all written in the Bible clean. Did you know that there are three heavens God created. First heaven is the Earth, Second heaven is where the firmaments , Sun, Moon, Stars, Clouds, even Space. The Third heaven is above all that, is where our Father, Jesus and the angels are.

Well teh first heaven is our atmosphere. not planet earth!
The prophet Isaiah told of how Jesus was to restore Israel and become a light unto the Gentiles. Isaiah (49:6) And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

And I have no problem with any of these verses.
 
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Guojing

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That's my point, I am taking what Lord Jesus said there literally, it's just that I'm more familiar with the Bible history about Israel than you are. After God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms in Solomon's days, only the ten tribes of the northern kingdom was known as the "house of Israel".

As long as you agree that there are no Gentiles in the House of Israel, we are at the same page.
 
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Guojing

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I'm still missing your point. Give me an example of what you mean using scriptures and verses, please.

Already stated Matthew 15:24.

If that is not enough, Romans 15:8 and Mark 7:27

Gentiles = dogs, uncircumcised
Israel = the circumcised, the children.
 
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Bro.T

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Already stated Matthew 15:24.

If that is not enough, Romans 15:8 and Mark 7:27

Gentiles = dogs, uncircumcised
Israel = the circumcised, the children.

I get what you saying and we living in the last days and this bring to mind what Paul said in Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Remember also Paul says in (Ephesians 2:11-22) let’s look at the 11th through 13th verses. "Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." The thing with the Gentiles is most still hold to tradition and paganism, still to this day. But they have to be taught, the word of God have to go out through all nation.
 
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Bro.T

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Well teh first heaven is our atmosphere. not planet earth!


And I have no problem with any of these verses.

It would be a blessing if you read the book and post scriptures to prove your point, if that's the case.

In the scriptures it's written in Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Simple math, not the third heaven, right. Can't be the first heaven, because it's given light to the earth, which is the first heaven. So, this have to be the second heaven.

Now let take a look at the first heaven here in Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
 
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nolidad

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It would be a blessing if you read the book and post scriptures to prove your point, if that's the case.

In the scriptures it's written in Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Simple math, not the third heaven, right. Can't be the first heaven, because it's given light to the earth, which is the first heaven. So, this have to be the second heaven.

Now let take a look at the first heaven here in Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

If you mean teh bible- I have!

firmament is raqia which is a stretched thiness. Possible one of the "boundaries" between the layers of the first heaven we call our atmosphere. or the vast stretched out "outer space" heaven is shamayim and context determines which heaven and which stretched thinness is being spoken of! is being referred to !

So 15 is "outer space"

yes 6:17 is life under the atmosphere. I agree with all that. so why are you posting it.
 
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Davy

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As long as you agree that there are no Gentiles in the House of Israel, we are at the same page.

Can't totally agree with that simply because the majority of the "house of Israel", i.e., the lost ten tribes of Israel, became as Gentiles, living among Gentiles. And when it was time, The Gospel was preached to them 'among' the Gentiles, and both received Christ Jesus and became His Church, together. And thus the Isaiah prophecies about Israel inheriting the Gentiles has come to pass, and the only thing left is Christ's coming to gather them, both, to the lands promised to Israel's fathers. All this of course is according to Apostle Paul's Epistles too.
 
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mlepfitjw

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Rapture vs 2nd coming.

All I know is we are going to die one day. God is going to take us up with him. We will be judged, and God will give us a spiritual body as he deems fit for us to have.

Is it good to be ready for the day of death? Why would you say it would not be?
 
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Davy

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Rapture vs 2nd coming.

All I know is we are going to die one day. God is going to take us up with him. We will be judged, and God will give us a spiritual body as he deems fit for us to have.

Is it good to be ready for the day of death? Why would you say it would not be?

Thing is, the heavenly dimension is going to be revealed right here, on earth. We're not going up in the clouds to live off this earth. Starting with Lord Jesus' return, His River and the tree of life will manifest right here, on earth, as written in Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22:14-15.

And no, we shall not all die, not per Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 which is the main chapter defining the type body of the world to come. On the "last trump", those still alive on earth will be changed at the twinkling of an eye to the spiritual body type. Christ's faithful Church is gathered in their spiritual bodies, not their flesh bodies, and that is to Jerusalem on earth where Lord Jesus is coming to.
 
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Bro.T

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Can't totally agree with that simply because the majority of the "house of Israel", i.e., the lost ten tribes of Israel, became as Gentiles, living among Gentiles. And when it was time, The Gospel was preached to them 'among' the Gentiles, and both received Christ Jesus and became His Church, together. And thus the Isaiah prophecies about Israel inheriting the Gentiles has come to pass, and the only thing left is Christ's coming to gather them, both, to the lands promised to Israel's fathers. All this of course is according to Apostle Paul's Epistles too.


When asked, what is a Gentile, it is commonly answered anyone who is not Jewish. Most modern day Christians are taught that they are Gentiles. So who or what is a Gentile?

According to the Bible, Gentile are a lineage of people. All of the Europeans (the people commonly referred to as white or Caucasian) are Gentiles. We will identify these people through the scriptures in Genesis.

Genesis 10:1-5 - "Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal , and Meshech, and Tiras. And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. And the sons of Javan; Elishah,and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations". The sons of Japheth are the people known as Gentiles. Now lets break down these families: Gomer (Celtics), Magog (Russia), Madai (Medes), Javan (Greece, Syria), Tubal (south of the Black Sea, Spain), Meshech (Russia), Tiras (Thracians).
 
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mlepfitjw

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I disagree with that Davy. Because of believing the kingdom of God is with-in each believer now known as the holy spirit, spirit of God, spirit of Christ. The Heavenly Jerusalem is in heaven not on earth. (Not going to argue about it here or anything though) You are most entirely allowed to express your viewpoints on how you see things which is fine.

We are most certainly going to die on this earth however. We will leave and go onward to the heavenly Jerusalem with and where God, and Christ reside.

Thank you for your reply and you have a nice day sir!
 
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Davy

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When asked, what is a Gentile, it is commonly answered anyone who is not Jewish. Most modern day Christians are taught that they are Gentiles. So who or what is a Gentile?

According to the Bible, Gentile are a lineage of people. All of the Europeans (the people commonly referred to as white or Caucasian) are Gentiles. We will identify these people through the scriptures in Genesis.

Genesis 10:1-5 - "Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal , and Meshech, and Tiras. And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. And the sons of Javan; Elishah,and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations". The sons of Japheth are the people known as Gentiles. Now lets break down these families: Gomer (Celtics), Magog (Russia), Madai (Medes), Javan (Greece, Syria), Tubal (south of the Black Sea, Spain), Meshech (Russia), Tiras (Thracians).

That's not correct, because Jesus had a specific lineage back to the man Adam (Luke 3). Likewise with the different branches from Noah's three sons.

And the name Caucasian originated from the peoples that crossed the Caucasus mountains when migrating across the Black Sea, and became known as Europeans. Translations from the Assyrian tablets in the 1930's by professor Leroy Waterman has shown the connection of those Cimmerians and Scythian Caucasians who migrated from the east around the Black Sea into Asia Minor and Europe linked with the ten scattered tribes of the house of Israel (ten tribes) that went captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes. Those were never Jews. The Jews are represented by the "house of Judah", the title of Jew itself is derived from Judah.

In Deuteronomy 4 & 28 God promised Israel that if they rebelled He would scatter them among the Gentiles. That in itself shows their separateness by God Himself. They rebelled, and He scattered them among the Gentiles. But Amos 9 He promised He would sift the "house of Israel" among the nations, and not the least grain would fall to the ground.
 
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Davy

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I disagree with that Davy. Because of believing the kingdom of God is with-in each believer now known as the holy spirit, spirit of God, spirit of Christ. The Heavenly Jerusalem is in heaven not on earth. (Not going to argue about it here or anything though) You are most entirely allowed to express your viewpoints on how you see things which is fine.

We are most certainly going to die on this earth however. We will leave and go onward to the heavenly Jerusalem with and where God, and Christ reside.

Thank you for your reply and you have a nice day sir!

Thing is though, the heavenly Jerusalem is coming here, on earth, and that's what you've missed from Scripture, although it is plainly written in Revelation 21, and show in the latter Ezekiel chapters.

There are clear divisions written of in God's Word about this present world, and the world to come when Jesus returns, with certain earth changes to happen. And then again more changes when God's Eternity of the new heavens and a new earth after that. So thinking that this present world is going to last forever just so the Heavenly Jerusalem can stay up in the clouds just is not written, but is a doctrine of the pre-trib rapture designers, not God.
 
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Bro.T

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I disagree with that Davy. Because of believing the kingdom of God is with-in each believer now known as the holy spirit, spirit of God, spirit of Christ. The Heavenly Jerusalem is in heaven not on earth. (Not going to argue about it here or anything though) You are most entirely allowed to express your viewpoints on how you see things which is fine.

We are most certainly going to die on this earth however. We will leave and go onward to the heavenly Jerusalem with and where God, and Christ reside.

Thank you for your reply and you have a nice day sir!

Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. If you believe that you should have some Bible to go with it. I understand why the Lord had Paul to write this, because man love to believe before proof or truth. In 1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. Another words believe the Bible not what people says they believe. Find Heavenly Jerusalem being in heaven not on earth in the Bible, then believe it.
 
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Bro.T

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That's not correct, because Jesus had a specific lineage back to the man Adam (Luke 3). Likewise with the different branches from Noah's three sons.

And the name Caucasian originated from the peoples that crossed the Caucasus mountains when migrating across the Black Sea, and became known as Europeans. Translations from the Assyrian tablets in the 1930's by professor Leroy Waterman has shown the connection of those Cimmerians and Scythian Caucasians who migrated from the east around the Black Sea into Asia Minor and Europe linked with the ten scattered tribes of the house of Israel (ten tribes) that went captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes. Those were never Jews. The Jews are represented by the "house of Judah", the title of Jew itself is derived from Judah.

In Deuteronomy 4 & 28 God promised Israel that if they rebelled He would scatter them among the Gentiles. That in itself shows their separateness by God Himself. They rebelled, and He scattered them among the Gentiles. But Amos 9 He promised He would sift the "house of Israel" among the nations, and not the least grain would fall to the ground.

You just read who are the Gentiles in Genesis 10th Chapter. If you don't believe the Bible, then why post other scriptures from the Bible? If there's something else you don't understand, sure we can talk about. After the flood, Noah Son's are those who we came out of as people and nation. Read the whole chapter.
 
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Davy

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You just read who are the Gentiles in Genesis 10th Chapter. If you don't believe the Bible, then why post other scriptures from the Bible? If there's something else you don't understand, sure we can talk about. After the flood, Noah Son's are those who we came out of as people and nation. Read the whole chapter.

I do read my Bible, but you are not reading yours, but are just pushing some political agenda outside of God's Word. God's Word makes a distinction between Israel and the Gentile nations. He made it very plain that He chose Israel for a specific purpose, and separate from the nations, which those nations represent Gentiles.
 
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Guojing

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Can't totally agree with that simply because the majority of the "house of Israel", i.e., the lost ten tribes of Israel, became as Gentiles, living among Gentiles. And when it was time, The Gospel was preached to them 'among' the Gentiles, and both received Christ Jesus and became His Church, together. And thus the Isaiah prophecies about Israel inheriting the Gentiles has come to pass, and the only thing left is Christ's coming to gather them, both, to the lands promised to Israel's fathers. All this of course is according to Apostle Paul's Epistles too.

So why did Jesus replied with Matthew 15:24 to the Gentile lady?
 
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