If they're going to believe anyway, why evangelize?

Michael Collum said:

I was thinking on this, just now - in terms of the modern notion of predestination, people who are going to believe will believe anyway - so what need is there for spreading the message?

This is for discussion, thought it might be a good one.

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What you describe is what is called Hyper-Calvinism and there is one denomination only that I know of that is said to be of that persuasion, the Protestant Reformed Church. (in case you want to do a study)

1. He commanded it.
2. There are rewards to be gotten.

What good is it for the person distended for hell to spend any time on earth and what good was it for him/her to be born?
Why do those distended for heaven have to waste time on earth?

Michael Collum said:

I was thinking on this, just now - in terms of the modern notion of predestination, people who are going to believe will believe anyway - so what need is there for spreading the message?

Also share stories of people "believing anyway" in areas without biblical teaching or resources.

This is for discussion, thought it might be a good one.

Click to expand...

Fact: we are told to go into all the world and preach the gospel.

Question: should we ignore Christ's command? Should we ignore all the other religions and NOT preach Jesus saves?

I feel that would be like watching a drowning person go under for the last time without doing anything to help them. That would be totally irresponsible in my opinion, if not downright wicked. (Mind you I cannot swim, but I would certainly try to do something.)
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Michael Collum said:

I was thinking on this, just now - in terms of the modern notion of predestination, people who are going to believe will believe anyway - so what need is there for spreading the message?

Also share stories of people "believing anyway" in areas without biblical teaching or resources.

This is for discussion, thought it might be a good one.

Click to expand...

You mention predestination. Without Jesus we are all predestined for Hell. Never mind what the cults say.
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Michael Collum said:

I was thinking on this, just now - in terms of the modern notion of predestination, people who are going to believe will believe anyway - so what need is there for spreading the message?

Also share stories of people "believing anyway" in areas without biblical teaching or resources.

This is for discussion, thought it might be a good one.

Click to expand...

"
Romans 10:14-15
14 But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? 15 And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, “How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!


Not only is it predestined that they will be saved, it is predestined that a certain person will share the gospel that they will believe.. not one thing happens that God has not predestined

Michael Collum said:

I was thinking on this, just now - in terms of the modern notion of predestination, people who are going to believe will believe anyway - so what need is there for spreading the message?

Also share stories of people "believing anyway" in areas without biblical teaching or resources.

This is for discussion, thought it might be a good one.

Click to expand...

How does one believe unless they hear? God will provide the gospel to those He elects before the foundation of the earth .... not one will be lost

Hello @Michael Collum, I'm not sure why, but the Lord made us (His witnesses, preachers, evangelists, & apologists) part of the process of coming to saving faith. Faith comes from "hearing", yes!

--David
p.s. - we are also told that the Lord is longsuffering towards us (His saints to be, that is). Though chosen in Him from before the foundation of the world and predestined to adoption as sons (Ephesians 1:4-6) He, nevertheless, waits patiently for us to choose to come to saving faith in the Lord Jesus/choose to believe.

edit: Whoops, sorry @rnmomof7, if I had seen what you just posted above first, I wouldn't have made this post. Two excellent posts. Thank you

Michael Collum said:

I was thinking on this, just now - in terms of the modern notion of predestination, people who are going to believe will believe anyway - so what need is there for spreading the message?

Click to expand...

None.

And there are many such situations that refute predestination, like why are we even here being run through the process of who will make it to heaven or not? Seems to me that if we were predestined, God would skip this part and take us all directly to heaven or hell.

It would make no sense to wait so he can seperate the wheat from the chaff, meaning, predestination holds no water at all.

rnmomof7 said:

"
Romans 10:14-15
14 But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? 15 And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, “How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!


Not only is it predestined that they will be saved, it is predestined that a certain person will share the gospel that they will believe.. not one thing happens that God has not predestined

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And everyone else is condemned to Hell from the foundation of the earth?
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I mean people know the story of jesus and the bible. Who doesn't know it. I've never come across anyone who doesnt in all my group chats and forums I've been on . Most just don't believe it and think it's fairy tales. Kind of unheard of for people not to know about it tbh

I'm not sure if I believe In predestination.
I feel like the world is a movie and god made the movie / knows the end. He knows who will end up being saved and who won't.

Lg2000 said:

I mean people know the story of jesus and the bible. Who doesn't know it. I've never come across anyone who doesnt in all my group chats and forums I've been on . Most just don't believe it and think it's fairy tales. Kind of unheard of for people not to know about it tbh

I'm not sure if I believe In predestination.
I feel like the world is a movie and god made the movie / knows the end. He knows who will end up being saved and who won't.

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That is right. God provides a way of escape for all, Jesus did not die for a few, but even so he knows our end from our beginning.
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Michael Collum said:

What kind of rewards are you looking forward to?

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It's certainly possible for the Lord to have set up a system by which He made Himself known to individuals without calling them into a group society.

But there are benefits of inter-reliance in being part of a group after a person is called out (elected) to follow a "way" that is different from the rest of society.

And that would be true regardless of the doctrine of election. For example, even though the US military is all-volunteer, there is still a great benefit to facing attacks of the enemy as a coordinated group rather than as individual soldiers.

Lg2000 said:

I mean people know the story of jesus and the bible. Who doesn't know it. I've never come across anyone who doesnt in all my group chats and forums I've been on . Most just don't believe it and think it's fairy tales. Kind of unheard of for people not to know about it tbh

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There are certainly people in the world who don't know enough about it to say that they really know it, and those persons are not necessarily far away.

I've told of a woman I know who had been a prostitute. She had heard lots of street preachers rail at her, condemning her, telling her she was doomed to hell.

Then she heard one preacher say, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new."

I heard this from both her and the preacher in two separate testimonies. She walked up to him, put her finger on his chest, and asked, "What you said about becoming a new creature in Christ...is that the truth?"

Nobody had ever said that to her. She didn't know that. But that was what she needed to hear.

Michael Collum said:

So you were referring to the group benefits and how you benefit from being part of that group.

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Sure, there is that. Luke and Paul make a big deal about that.