A Partial List of 7th Day Assemblies

LoveGodsWord said:

In Matthew 15:4 Jesus does indeed mention the Decalogue quoting from the 5th commandment of the 10 commandments from Exodus 20:12 Honor thy father and mother.

Matthew 15:3-9 [3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?[4], FOR GOD COMMANDED SAYING, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER {Exodus 20:12}: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. [5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me; [6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. [7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, [8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [9], BUT IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN

Hope this is helpful.

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This is an interesting point.

Mark 7:6-13
6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Eph 6:1-2
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may turn out well for you, and that you may live long on the earth.

only in the TEN of Ex 20 do you find that to be true. Deut 5 merely reminds them of the Ten given at Sinai.

Matt 19
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do so that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not give false testimony; Ex20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

Both Eph 6 and Matt 19 make it clear that their reference is to the ten commandments of Sinai.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the Law as violators. 10 For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said,
“Do not commit adultery,” -- Ex 20
also said, “Do not murder.” -- Ex 20
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do murder, you have become a violator of the Law. 12 So speak, and so act, as those who are to be judged by the law of freedom

LoveGodsWord said: ↑
There is no scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a holy day of rest.

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Albion said:

So now you are back at the start of the standard Adventist counter to the practice of most Christian churches concerning Sunday worship. That's just what I expected to happen when I said at the beginning of this that I didn't want to go round that Mulberry bush again and to no real end.

But if you ever decide to deal with what I explained in my previous post, the door is always open.

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Page 1 of this thread has a long list of 7th day Assemblies - which of them do you think are not in the group that claim that the Sabbath commandment is still in the moral law of God - the TEN, and that it is binding and unchanged for all mankind? How then is that "just Adventists"??

Albion said:

Thanks for your reply. Two things about that passage: 1) it's a reference to the seventh day as it had been before the establishment of the church of Christ, and 2) to make Sunday the primary day of worship for Christians does not mean moving the Sabbath.

... as I was also saying, there never seems to be any room for discussion when Adventists present their own thinking. Your blunt reply (above) seems to verify that. (?)

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Albion said:

I guess that's a matter of opinion, but the Sabbath was not moved to Sunday, even though most Adventists seem to think that's what this is about.

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By contrast - we have --

=====================================

The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Baptist Confession of Faith - Section 22

• • 7. As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished
  • 8. The Sabbath is kept holy to the Lord by those who, after the necessary preparation of their hearts and prior arranging of their common affairs, observe all day a holy rest from their own works, words and thoughts about their worldly employment and recreations, and give themselves over to the public and private acts of worship for the whole time, and to carrying out duties of necessity and mercy.

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The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647) by Westminster Divines

Westminster Confession of Faith - section 21


==============
Catholic Catechism



Dies Domini – pt 63

Dies Domini (May 31, 1998) | John Paul II

The Faith Explained (Page 242)

changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

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("The Faith Explained" Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism by Leo Trese).

"The Faith Explained" (page 243.)

"we know that in the O.T. it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church
​

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When I read your post - it "appears" that you are claiming that Adventists are somehow to blame for the sort of logic in these confessions of faith that state that the Sabbath commandment still binding on all mankind - was "changed" to point to week-day-1.

Since we have had this discussion before I am not sure why you frame it as you do - as if you had not read the material. How can Adventists be blamed for what some other denominations claim about the Sabbath and its change to point to week-day-1?

I can understand why you might post something like "I agree with that change and think Adventists are wrong to oppose it" or you could post "I agree with Adventists that those claims to having made a change to the Sabbath are bad theology and I also do not accept the change of the Sabbath.. I just ignore it and choose to observe Sunday as the Lord's day " or something of that sort.

But you post as if you have not had this discussion before.

safswan said:

There is none and this has been shown here many a time.

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That's why these particular debates are useless. Everyone (or so it seems after awhile) on your side has been coached to think that the verses do not exist. So even when they're quoted, that's the reply that comes back.

And what is that supposed to accomplish other than to make you feel good about yourself?

BobRyan said:

I am not sure why you frame it as you do - as if you had not read the material. How can Adventists be blamed for what some other denominations claim about the Sabbath and its change to point to week-day-1?

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It's the Adventists who make it an issue. It's a favorite with them (which is not too surprising since it is the one doctrine that most people on both sides recognize as setting Adventism apart from the rest of Christianity).

Conversely, you hardly ever hear a member of one of the traditional denominations complaining about the Adventists worshipping on Saturday, etc. However, we will disagree with their insistence upon accusing the majority of Christians of defying God in this matter, especially because the basis for it is right there in the New Testament.

That's not the same as how you have presented the disagreement.

What I think is the real "problem" when it comes to verses, and which position has been taken by whom, is this--

The SDA blame the Catholic Church for every practice and belief which distinguishes the Adventists from the rest of Christianity. BUT THEN, when it comes to specifics and proofs, you throw Baptist confessions and Presbyterian statements of belief around as though THEY speak for the Christians who are not Adventists!! That's what you did here.

Yet, if you notice, the Catholic information you offered us substantiates what I have tried to explain. It does not say that the Sabbath has been moved.

Albion said:

That's why these particular debates are useless. Everyone (or so it seems after awhile) on your side has been coached to think that the verses do not exist.

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Quoting the verses that make your point is always a good idea.

BobRyan said:

This is an interesting point.

Mark 7:6-13
6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Eph 6:1-2
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may turn out well for you, and that you may live long on the earth.

only in the TEN of Ex 20 do you find that to be true. Deut 5 merely reminds them of the Ten given at Sinai.

Matt 19
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do so that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not give false testimony; Ex20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

Both Eph 6 and Matt 19 make it clear that their reference is to the ten commandments of Sinai.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the Law as violators. 10 For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said,
“Do not commit adultery,” -- Ex 20
also said, “Do not murder.” -- Ex 20
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do murder, you have become a violator of the Law. 12 So speak, and so act, as those who are to be judged by the law of freedom

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There are some verses in that chapter that you quoted from (Matthew 19:16-19). That you should include to clarify what Jesus was really saying.

Matthew 19:23-26
And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

The point is that those ten commandments only grant a knowledge of sin, that's all they are good for. Those ten commandments never grant life, salvation or even righteousness. The ten commandments only deliver that rightful condemnation to all sinners.

There is really only one commandment that delivers eternal life.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

If you obey that commandment then you are saved.

Albion said:

That's why these particular debates are useless. Everyone (or so it seems after awhile) on your side has been coached to think that the verses do not exist. So even when they're quoted, that's the reply that comes back.

And what is that supposed to accomplish other than to make you feel good about yourself?

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The verses you rely on to to support your belief have been addressed and it has been shown by others and by myself that they are misunderstood or misapplied by you.The following posts which you have ignored and failed to address is where this was done.Hence your claim that,"Everyone (or so it seems after awhile) on your side has been coached to think that the verses do not exist. So even when they're quoted, that's the reply that comes back",is misleading and false.Posts which you have ignored include the following:


ACTS 20 AND I CORINTHIANS 16,EXPLAINED

ROMANS 14 EXPLAINED

CHURCH FATHERS PUT IN PERSPECTIVE

NO SUNDAY CHURCH SERVICE - JOHN 20

BobRyan said:

Quoting the verses that make your point is always a good idea.

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Right. And now many times does it take?

klutedavid said:

There is really only one commandment that delivers eternal life.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

If you obey that commandment then you are saved.

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Jesus had a different perspective on that:

Matthew 19:
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Do you know why the question,"which",was asked?Do you understand the significance of the answer?

safswan said:

Jesus had a different perspective on that:

Matthew 19:
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Do you know why the question,"which",was asked?Do you understand the significance of the answer?

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I just gave you the answer to your question in the previous post.

The law only grants the knowledge of sin. The ten commandments only grant the knowledge of sin.
In faithfully trying to obey the ten commandments, you should realize that you need a savior. When you attempt to eliminate coveting from your life, is when you realize how deeply you covet.

Ultimately, you should reach a point when you know that you could never obey the law. That is why you need Jesus!

You must understand that the law never saved anyone.

klutedavid said:

I just gave you the answer to your question in the previous post.

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No you did not.You only quoted a verse which had no bearing on the passage in question.The problem with the person who asked the question was one of a lack of faith.He got the answer he was hoping for and more and it is the more which he could not handle.Hence:

Matthew 19:
22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Jesus addressed his question about eternal life and the answer is for you too."Keep the commandments."

safswan said:

No you did not.You only quoted a verse which had no bearing on the passage in question.The problem with the person who asked the question was one of a lack of faith.He got the answer he was hoping for and more and it is the more which he could not handle.Hence:

Matthew 19:
22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Jesus addressed his question about eternal life and the answer is for you too."Keep the commandments."

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Incorrect, the law condemns.

klutedavid said:

Incorrect, the law condemns.

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Again,you ignore what the passage says and means to your own peril.Paul disagrees with your view of the law.

Romans 3:
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Why:

Romans 7:
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

That which condemns is sin and not the law.

safswan said:

No you did not.You only quoted a verse which had no bearing on the passage in question.The problem with the person who asked the question was one of a lack of faith.He got the answer he was hoping for and more and it is the more which he could not handle.Hence:

Matthew 19:
22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Jesus addressed his question about eternal life and the answer is for you too."Keep the commandments."

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Always read the context.

safswan said:

Again,you ignore what the passage says and means to your own peril.Paul disagrees with your view of the law.

Romans 3:
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Why:

Romans 7:
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

That which condemns is sin and not the law.

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The law came and I died!

Romans 7:9-10
I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me.

The law kills, condemns.

Albion said:

That's why these particular debates are useless. Everyone (or so it seems after awhile) on your side has been coached to think that the verses do not exist. So even when they're quoted, that's the reply that comes back.

And what is that supposed to accomplish other than to make you feel good about yourself?



It's the Adventists who make it an issue. It's a favorite with them (which is not too surprising since it is the one doctrine that most people on both sides recognize as setting Adventism apart from the rest of Christianity).

Conversely, you hardly ever hear a member of one of the traditional denominations complaining about the Adventists worshipping on Saturday, etc. However, we will disagree with their insistence upon accusing the majority of Christians of defying God in this matter, especially because the basis for it is right there in the New Testament.

That's not the same as how you have presented the disagreement.

What I think is the real "problem" when it comes to verses, and which position has been taken by whom, is this--

The SDA blame the Catholic Church for every practice and belief which distinguishes the Adventists from the rest of Christianity. BUT THEN, when it comes to specifics and proofs, you throw Baptist confessions and Presbyterian statements of belief around as though THEY speak for the Christians who are not Adventists!! That's what you did here.

Yet, if you notice, the Catholic information you offered us substantiates what I have tried to explain. It does not say that the Sabbath has been moved.

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God clearly defined His Sabbath.

Exodus 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In ityou shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Six days we are to work but the seventh day is Holy. That means Sunday is a work day not a Holy day.

Which is consistent after Jesus rose when Mary came to the grave after the Sabbath according to the commandment (4th). Luke 23:56

klutedavid said:

Incorrect, the law condemns.

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New Covenant: Law written on the heart Heb 8:6-12 Jer 31:31-33 ... that Law known to Jeremiah and his readers where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is the 5th commandment.

klutedavid said:

The law came and I died!

Romans 7:9-10
I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me.

The law kills, condemns.

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It is true that the work of the law for the lost is to bring about death.. for the Christians it is "written on the heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the Law" Rom 3:31 where that Law known to Jeremiah and his readers where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is the 5th commandment

BobRyan said:

New Covenant: Law written on the heart Heb 8:6-12 Jer 31:31-33 ... that Law known to Jeremiah and his readers where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is the 5th commandment.

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How do you know that the law mentioned in Jeremiah is referring to the ten commandments?

Loving others has nothing to do with coveting oxen.

The law simply tells you that you are a sinner, it grants the knowledge of sin. All sin is the antithesis of divine love.

Romans 13:8
Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.

It is all about just one word.

BobRyan said:

It is true that the work of the law for the lost is to bring about death.. for the Christians it is "written on the heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the Law" Rom 3:31 where that Law known to Jeremiah and his readers where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is the 5th commandment

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That verse you quoted Romans.

do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the Law" Rom 3:31

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Is talking about the entire law and not just the ten commandments. If you change that phrase (the law) into another phrase (the ten commandments), then you have altered the scripture. That alteration comes at a very heavy cost.

Paul was addressing the Jews in Rome. That is why Paul bothers to mention establishing 'the law'. Don't bother checking the context of Romans 2 and Romans 3. That way you can continue believing what the scripture does not say.