Revelation 20:9 - Are we nearly there?

throughfiierytrial · Jan 30, 2021

Freedm said:
Revelation 20:7-9
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Obviously for anyone to believe we're almost there, they would have to believe that we're currently living in the millennium, which I realize many people do not, but even from those people I ask to consider what they believe this time will look like and contribute to the conversation on that level.

I believe we're currently in the thousand years and I believe the thousand years started sometime in the first century AD. Not sure if it was at Jesus' resurrection, or the destruction of Jerusalem, but no matter. The point is, I believe that the next major event to happen on the prophetic timeline is the end of the thousand years, which is precipitated by the release of Satan. So what would this look like?

I believe what I'm seeing in the world today looks very much like we're nearing the end of the thousand years and I'll explain why. Revelation 20:9 tells us that Satan will do three things.

Deceive the nations

Gather the nations for battle

Surround the people of God

I believe Satan would be released invisibly but that he would immediately set to work prepping the people to do his dirty work, and that would primarily involve deceiving people into believing that Christianity is evil, and then leveraging that belief into an outright attack on Christianity.

Deception

The deception that we're seeing now in the world is at a level I've not seen in my life time (I'm 49 years old). Just 12 months ago I felt that 9/11 was the greatest deception to ever be perpetrated on the general public, although the "climate emergency" talk was a close second in my mind. Today our governments and media lie to us every single day about everything and anything, we're told that there are no genders, that everybody is racist, that killing unborn babies is a "women's health right" and that demanding a fair election makes you guilty of "ripping up the constitution" and in need of "deprogramming". In the eyes of many today, truth is hateful and evil is righteous.

Gathering

The redefinition of gender, the erasing of lines between male and female, the fight for sexual immorality and the accusations of "hate speech", with its fluid definition, getting nearer and nearer to the teachings of our Bible and it's not hard to see where this is going. Public individuals are already calling for the Bible to be classified as hate speech, and how long will it be before elected politicians make it official? I just can't see this taking more than 5 or 10 years at most.

Surrounding

Clearly this "surrounding" would have to be a spiritual surrounding because Christians live all over the world so it can not be the surrounding of a single city. I imagine this to be the marginalization and indeed criminalization of Christianity, and this, seems very near indeed. Sweden is already jailing pastors for preaching that homosexuality is sinful, California has made it a criminal offense to criticize homosexuality in schools and Scotland's proposed new hate crime bill includes vague language that can easily be used to label the Bible as criminal.

Now to get to the next step I think things would have to get much worse and the Bible would indeed have to be outright banned, and the attacking of Christians not only tolerated but encouraged, so I don't think we're there yet (at least not in western nations) but things seem to be progressing rapidly now so it may not be long.

Other Signs

Other signs that have me thinking we're nearing the end of the age revolve more around science, than faith or the current socio-political climate. The combining of human DNA with animal DNA; Scientists can essentially do it now though it's not widely done. will God allow it? Scientific discoveries, now that the god particle has been discovered and we start talking about time travel and other dimensions; how much will God allow us to discover about the universe? The alien agenda seems to be more and more accepted in the mainstream as if we're "almost ready" for disclosure; will the aliens have a part to play in the final deception?

I personally would be very surprised if we're still here in 2040, and I would be somewhat surprised if we're still here in 2030. Yes, of course, I could be completely wrong (just as my mother was when she was certain that 1987 would be the "year of the rapture" because Hal Lindsey said so) and that's fine. I'm not making a prediction or anything like that. I'm just saying, based on what I'm seeing today, it seems unlikely to me that God will allow us to continue on our current trajectory for much longer.

Is anybody else thinking along these same lines, or am I on an island here?

I believe the thousand year reign is symbolic of the unknown time of Christ's Second Coming...which shall be Judgement Day. I know many take this Thousand Year Reign literally, considering our differences then I shall respond to the question in part here at least...you seem to welcome such a response.
I believe the warfare is primarily spiritual warfare which plays itself out on those living on the earth...Satanic power va God's power given to the saints, namely our faith in Christ who fights all our battles for us and to our good no matter what the outcome appears while we live.
Consider Matthew 24...I'll paraphrase here, but at the Judgement Day things will go on as in the day of Noah...eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage. Yet on the other hand, we read that during this same time frame there will be such distress unequaled from the beginning of time until now and if those days will not be cut short none would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days were cut short.
So, what then is being spoken of by none would "survive"? Physically? why would people then be eating and drinking and being jolly? Must be spiritual survival. Perhaps such evil will prevail that it will so darken the world of the knowledge of God that few will survive...a type of persecution for the believers or actual persecution of the believers may exist.
Here in Matthew 24 it is also mentioned that because of the increase of wickedness the love (I believe this means love of God) of many (some Scriptures read "most") will grow cold...in fact, Luke 18:8 has Jesus saying when the Son of Man returns will He find faith on the earth?
So, if we look at that metaphor of the fig tree in Matthew 24 it does look very much like end times, why wouldn't it though, we are marching that direction and things get increasingly evil. Paul pens in
II Timothy3:12-14:
12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,
Matthew also speaks of the rise and fall of nations and one might suppose these end times signs are most pronounced at such times as well. We do not know the last day, but Jesus says when you see all these things to WATCH, and so we all must do so...watch and pray...testify and keep the faith to the end.

keras · Jan 30, 2021

Freedm said:
So I took Keras' post as a reference and decided to check those numbers for myself and so I created a spreadsheet.

I was not able to confirm that exactly 2,000 years had passed when Abram arrived in Canaan. In fact, my spreadsheet shows that at that time 2,021 years had passed.

Thank you for making the effort to verify the timeline I posted in #18.
I am very gratified that you found the exact 4000 years; Adam to Jesus.

With Abrahams timing, this takes some nutting out as the Bible leaves out some details. It doesn't tell us how old he was when they departed from Ur. Only that he was 75 when they went to live in Canaan.
But the years up to when Abram was born come to 1948, which is 52 years short of the 2000 year mark at our calendar of 1970.5 BC
It follows, with perfect logic and common sense, that he was 52 when God called him, 2000 years after Adam. Then they spent 23 years living in Haran and finally went to Canaan when he was 75. Genesis 12:4

What you have shown, is just another example of why no one else has come to the truth of God's Plan, they have all stumbled over this issue as well as the confusing change over from BC to AD. ADD 2, not one for the total elapsed years, as the years both ways, are counted at their commencement.

People may ask: Why has no one, for example Isaac Newton: with a brain 100 times better than mine, not figured this timeline out long ago?
Daniel 12:4 & 10 explain it; God has not allowed them to know. But as we are now really in the end times, a few people will understand.
Pray to be one of them!

Regarding the various days and weeks around the given months and years of the kings, etc, I agree; they average out.
I have managed to narrow it to half years and my belief is that the times of a little over and a little under, cancel themselves out.

keras · Jan 30, 2021

Freedm said:
So while you can easily take various passages of scripture and claim they prove your point, that does not mean they actually prove your point.

Why just use opinion to rebut me?
Please tell us what you believe Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32 actually mean.

Remember; God doesn't waffle around, if it's in Scripture, then it is meaningful and not to be lightly dismissed.

Douggg · Jan 30, 2021

parable of the fig tree generation puts the beginning of the 7 years 70th week close.

1967 + the 70 years in Psalms 9:10 is 2037, Jesus returns before then.

caveat is that Psalms 9:10 a generation could be up to 80 years if by strength. It is talking about individuals though in general.

Belief of living now in the millennium or not, Satan bound up etc. etc. - is irrelevant to how close we are to Jesus's return.

What counts is the parable of the fig tree generation.

And what it boils down to is what will be the near-at-hand concrete evidence will be the formation of the EU into the ten kings, leaders, and the little horn person over them.

Timtofly · Jan 30, 2021

Quintus said:
I wonder. All the arguments put forward seem to be based on an earthly calendar. Is there not a case to be made that our calendar started on the 'day' the sun and moon first appear, and ends when they are removed towards the end of Revelation. This would imply that our timeline is a creation of God and therefore the timeline (if any) that God lives in, alias eternity, bears no resemblance to our temporary earthbound calendar.

So we have to deduce in each case whether the bible is using our perspective or God's in order to know what he is saying.

For example, the thief on the cross finished up the day at sunset in the realm of the dead, not in Paradise, as seen from our perspective. As this was still the seventh day of Creation in God's perspective, Jesus' promise that he would be in Paradise holds true due to his later removal to heaven.

And when does the eight day of God's creation calendar start in the bible? I'm guessing it's with the new heaven earth he has prepared, though I'd love to know exactly. Or does the seventh day go on for ever?

This seems to help explain some things. Or am I way off?

Jesus was on the Cross when He spoke to the thief.

Day in God's terms is only about this creation. In eternity there could be many creations. The "Father's House" is not heaven, but eternity. Where there is no time at all. The Day/1000 year reference deals only with this creation. It is not even about other realities, or even eternity.

Time is only built into a creation as part of that creation's reality. The 4th Commandment deals with time and reality. This command has nothing to do with Saturdays at all. Saturday was a weekly day to Remember the main point in time. All forgot the original intent and turned Saturday into something it is not.

The command says, 6 days thou shalt labor. Do we work 6 days to obey God? Then God related that to His 6 days of labor. God did not punish man with work longer than God Himself put into creation. Some do not accept the 1000 year/Day relationship that Peter gives in 2 Peter 3. They claim it is just an ambiguous quote from Psalms which is even more ambiguous. Yet Peter was taking away all ambiguity. Some claim Revelation 20 is too figurative, yet John takes away all symbolism and clearly states 1000 years to leave no doubt in one's mind. Some want to take the literal words of Revelation 20, and turn them into some figurative obscure event, based on any one's private made up interpretation.

Gregory Thompson · Jan 30, 2021

Freedm said:
Revelation 20:7-9
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Obviously for anyone to believe we're almost there, they would have to believe that we're currently living in the millennium, which I realize many people do not, but even from those people I ask to consider what they believe this time will look like and contribute to the conversation on that level.

I believe we're currently in the thousand years and I believe the thousand years started sometime in the first century AD. Not sure if it was at Jesus' resurrection, or the destruction of Jerusalem, but no matter. The point is, I believe that the next major event to happen on the prophetic timeline is the end of the thousand years, which is precipitated by the release of Satan. So what would this look like?

I believe what I'm seeing in the world today looks very much like we're nearing the end of the thousand years and I'll explain why. Revelation 20:9 tells us that Satan will do three things.

Deceive the nations

Gather the nations for battle

Surround the people of God

I believe Satan would be released invisibly but that he would immediately set to work prepping the people to do his dirty work, and that would primarily involve deceiving people into believing that Christianity is evil, and then leveraging that belief into an outright attack on Christianity.

Deception

The deception that we're seeing now in the world is at a level I've not seen in my life time (I'm 49 years old). Just 12 months ago I felt that 9/11 was the greatest deception to ever be perpetrated on the general public, although the "climate emergency" talk was a close second in my mind. Today our governments and media lie to us every single day about everything and anything, we're told that there are no genders, that everybody is racist, that killing unborn babies is a "women's health right" and that demanding a fair election makes you guilty of "ripping up the constitution" and in need of "deprogramming". In the eyes of many today, truth is hateful and evil is righteous.

Gathering

The redefinition of gender, the erasing of lines between male and female, the fight for sexual immorality and the accusations of "hate speech", with its fluid definition, getting nearer and nearer to the teachings of our Bible and it's not hard to see where this is going. Public individuals are already calling for the Bible to be classified as hate speech, and how long will it be before elected politicians make it official? I just can't see this taking more than 5 or 10 years at most.

Surrounding

Clearly this "surrounding" would have to be a spiritual surrounding because Christians live all over the world so it can not be the surrounding of a single city. I imagine this to be the marginalization and indeed criminalization of Christianity, and this, seems very near indeed. Sweden is already jailing pastors for preaching that homosexuality is sinful, California has made it a criminal offense to criticize homosexuality in schools and Scotland's proposed new hate crime bill includes vague language that can easily be used to label the Bible as criminal.

Now to get to the next step I think things would have to get much worse and the Bible would indeed have to be outright banned, and the attacking of Christians not only tolerated but encouraged, so I don't think we're there yet (at least not in western nations) but things seem to be progressing rapidly now so it may not be long.

Other Signs

Other signs that have me thinking we're nearing the end of the age revolve more around science, than faith or the current socio-political climate. The combining of human DNA with animal DNA; Scientists can essentially do it now though it's not widely done. will God allow it? Scientific discoveries, now that the god particle has been discovered and we start talking about time travel and other dimensions; how much will God allow us to discover about the universe? The alien agenda seems to be more and more accepted in the mainstream as if we're "almost ready" for disclosure; will the aliens have a part to play in the final deception?

I personally would be very surprised if we're still here in 2040, and I would be somewhat surprised if we're still here in 2030. Yes, of course, I could be completely wrong (just as my mother was when she was certain that 1987 would be the "year of the rapture" because Hal Lindsey said so) and that's fine. I'm not making a prediction or anything like that. I'm just saying, based on what I'm seeing today, it seems unlikely to me that God will allow us to continue on our current trajectory for much longer.

Is anybody else thinking along these same lines, or am I on an island here?

Since the nations are still deceived, there is no suppression of the devil as described in that passage, so it hasn't happened yet.

claninja · Jan 30, 2021

Freedm said:
So I took Keras' post as a reference and decided to check those numbers for myself and so I created a spreadsheet.

I was not able to confirm that exactly 2,000 years had passed when Abram arrived in Canaan. In fact, my spreadsheet shows that at that time 2,021 years had passed.

I also ended up with a different number of years to the Babylonian exile. Keras said it happened at year 3,386.5 but my spreadsheet tells me it happened at year 3,384.5. I don't believe this number really matters anyway, but I just wanted to point out that my calculations are quite different.

However, the really exciting part is that my spreadsheet does indeed confirm that exactly 4,000 years had passed from Adam to when Jesus was baptized, and I find this quite amazing and fascinating. I don't know why some of my other numbers differ from Keras but the most important point in my mind is that God waited for exactly 4,000 trips around the sun before Jesus was baptized. This tells me that nothing in God's plan is random.

I don't know how to share a spreadsheet so I took a screenshot of it that I can share right here.
View attachment 294191

Now keep in mind that the Bible gives us years, but nothing more specific. So when it says Asa reigned for 41 years (for example), we know that's likely not exactly 41 years but we don't know if that's 41 years and two months or two days or even a month or two shy of 41 years. It's just not that specific, so because of that this can not be considered 100% accurate, but at the same time over the course of 49 events being calculated in years only, the law of averages tells us that this likely averages out quite well, with some numbers being just a little bit too big and others a little too small.

One of the best and most thorough books on biblical chronology that I have read is Martin Anstey's "The Romance of Biblical Chronology".

The book dates Christ's birth at an. hom. 4038. In other words, 4,038 years from Adam.

The book was written in 1913.

from the last page:

"the present year of the world (A.D. 1913) is,

According to Ptolemy 4124 +1913 = 6037
According to Daniel 4042 +19313 = 5955

Yet 45 years, and the sixth millennium of the world's history will be fulfilled and the seventh millennium ushered in."

claninja · Jan 30, 2021

Freedm said:
Deception

The deception that we're seeing now in the world is at a level I've not seen in my life time (I'm 49 years old). Just 12 months ago I felt that 9/11 was the greatest deception to ever be perpetrated on the general public, although the "climate emergency" talk was a close second in my mind. Today our governments and media lie to us every single day about everything and anything, we're told that there are no genders, that everybody is racist, that killing unborn babies is a "women's health right" and that demanding a fair election makes you guilty of "ripping up the constitution" and in need of "deprogramming". In the eyes of many today, truth is hateful and evil is righteous.

Gathering

The redefinition of gender, the erasing of lines between male and female, the fight for sexual immorality and the accusations of "hate speech", with its fluid definition, getting nearer and nearer to the teachings of our Bible and it's not hard to see where this is going. Public individuals are already calling for the Bible to be classified as hate speech, and how long will it be before elected politicians make it official? I just can't see this taking more than 5 or 10 years at most.

Surrounding

Clearly this "surrounding" would have to be a spiritual surrounding because Christians live all over the world so it can not be the surrounding of a single city. I imagine this to be the marginalization and indeed criminalization of Christianity, and this, seems very near indeed. Sweden is already jailing pastors for preaching that homosexuality is sinful, California has made it a criminal offense to criticize homosexuality in schools and Scotland's proposed new hate crime bill includes vague language that can easily be used to label the Bible as criminal.

Now to get to the next step I think things would have to get much worse and the Bible would indeed have to be outright banned, and the attacking of Christians not only tolerated but encouraged, so I don't think we're there yet (at least not in western nations) but things seem to be progressing rapidly now so it may not be long.

Other Signs

Other signs that have me thinking we're nearing the end of the age revolve more around science, than faith or the current socio-political climate. The combining of human DNA with animal DNA; Scientists can essentially do it now though it's not widely done. will God allow it? Scientific discoveries, now that the god particle has been discovered and we start talking about time travel and other dimensions; how much will God allow us to discover about the universe? The alien agenda seems to be more and more accepted in the mainstream as if we're "almost ready" for disclosure; will the aliens have a part to play in the final deception?

I personally would be very surprised if we're still here in 2040, and I would be somewhat surprised if we're still here in 2030. Yes, of course, I could be completely wrong (just as my mother was when she was certain that 1987 would be the "year of the rapture" because Hal Lindsey said so) and that's fine. I'm not making a prediction or anything like that. I'm just saying, based on what I'm seeing today, it seems unlikely to me that God will allow us to continue on our current trajectory for much longer.

Is anybody else thinking along these same lines, or am I on an island here?

The vision/parable of revelation 20, states that the first resurrection is/= those living and reigning with Christ FOR ONE THOUSAND YEARS ( revelation 20:4-5). In other words, the 1,000 years is the ENTIRETY of the first resurrection in the context of the parable/vision. In interpreting this, my opinion is that Christ is/= the first resurrection (John 11:25, Acts 26:23, colossians 1:18, 1 corinthians 15:20, revelation 1:5).

Therefore, I would place the 1,000 years as being fulfilled WITHIN Christ's 1st advent, WITHIN his ministry, resurrection, and ascension. It is because of Christ's resurrection that satan was bound (matthew 12:29) and his works destroyed (1 John 3:8). It is because of Christ's resurrection that we have been raised to sit in the heavenly realms (ephesians 2:6). It is because of Christ's resurrection that the 2nd death has no power over us (John 11:25-26), and that we are a kingdom of priests to God (1 Peter 2:9). It is because of Christ's resurrection, that satan was cast out (Jhn 12:31-33) and coming (John 14:30).

It is upon the fulfillment of the 1,000 years/Christ's resurrection that satan would have a short opportune time to make war against the saints (revelation 20:7-9).

I would argue this little "opportune" season (revelation 12:12, revelation 20:7) to make war on the saints (revelation 12:15-17, revelation 20:8-9) followed his casting out (John 12:31-33) and coming (John 14:30) after Christ's ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension.

IMHO, Satan's "little season" is presented in the gospels and epistles. Satan was already snatching away the understanding of the kingdom (matthew 13:19) deceiving (2 corinthians 11:13-14), hindering (2 thessaloninas 2:14-18), prowling (1 peter 5:8), ensnaring (1 timoty 5:15), and working through the sons of disobedience (ephesians 2:1-2) in the first century.

nolidad · Jan 30, 2021

Freedm said:
In other words, no you can not. I asked you to give me a verse that definitively links the thousand years to the OT. Instead you gave me entire chapters of the Bible to read that explain events which you ASSUME are referring to the thousand years.

Then give me a definitive verse that shows therew are two kingdoms Jesus reigns over!

The one for a thousand years, and the one spoken of at length in the OT! By refusing to accept the 1,000 year kingdom as teh kingdom foretold in the OT, you are now forced to have two kingdoms on earth!

Freedm · Jan 30, 2021

Timtofly said:
Then I guess you will not worry, when they give you the option to chop your head off?

Head chop off? Sounds like a great opportunity. Fast, clean, painless, straight into heaven.

Freedm · Jan 30, 2021

nolidad said:
Then give me a definitive verse that shows therew are two kingdoms Jesus reigns over!

The one for a thousand years, and the one spoken of at length in the OT! By refusing to accept the 1,000 year kingdom as teh kingdom foretold in the OT, you are now forced to have two kingdoms on earth!

Two kingdoms? Who said anything about two kingdoms? There's only one kingdom of God.

Freedm · Jan 30, 2021

claninja said:
IMHO, Satan's "little season" is presented in the gospels and epistles. Satan was already snatching away the understanding of the kingdom (matthew 13:19) deceiving (2 corinthians 11:13-14), hindering (2 thessaloninas 2:14-18), prowling (1 peter 5:8), ensnaring (1 timoty 5:15), and working through the sons of disobedience (ephesians 2:1-2) in the first century.

Interesting. So just to confirm; you're saying that Satan's short time has already passed? Does that mean you're also saying that the thousand years is already over and Satan has already been thrown into the lake of fire?

Timtofly · Jan 30, 2021

Freedm said:
2 Peter 3:8 is one of the most misapplied verses of scripture, claiming that a thousand years and a day are the same thing and that therefore we should be counting in blocks of 1000 years whenever the scriptures say days, but that's an incorrect reading of the verse. This verse is simply making the point that God is much more patient than we, as Peter was reassuring his audience that God will come.

So while you can easily take various passages of scripture and claim they prove your point,

They do not prove your point about patience either way. The verse that says that God is longsuffering does not mean for thousands of years either. How would you know just reading that passage that there has even been thousands of years? You cannot. That information comes from some other place. Obviously up until recently not even the Bible. Many different places assume something changed 4000 years BC, and "history" began. Of course some in the last 30 years, want to keep pushing that "eureka" something to perhaps 10 or 20 thousand years, BC. That is all besides the point. The chapter does not give any perceived time of thousands of years based on God’s patience alone. You are adding to 2 Peter 3:8 an assumption that is not explicit as well. Even verse 3 could be read "in the last 2 (1000) years many scoffers will come" and be just as relevant as "in the last Days scoffers will come".

Peter gives us the "last days", the "day of judgment", the "day of the Lord", and the "day of God" There is nothing definite that they are 24 hour days or 1000 year "Days". Dogmatic either direction cannot be assumed. Yet Peter says to not be ignorant that both ways are equal in relevance, because he points out that single fact about 1000 year time periods. Verse 8 can only be proof that Peter wanted that specific comparison.

Timtofly · Jan 30, 2021

Freedm said:
Head chop off? Sounds like a great opportunity. Fast, clean, painless, straight into heaven.

Actually no heaven, the angel transports through time to Revelation 20:4, the day after Armageddon. The church leaves at the 6th Seal. Paradise is Sealed in the 7th Seal. The angels are involved in the harvest of the sheep, wheat, and Satan's beheading. This angel harvest is a time transport, to a when, all will be resurrected into Jerusalem. They will spread out across the earth from there. Or they will be transported to their respective Nations, and Jerusalem. The rebuilding of the Nations in the OT is more Keras territory as he has spent more time, studying the OT prophecies. He says Jerusalem as a central gathering place, but who knows? He thinks they come by physical means. I see the angels as being used as time jumps of souls. He accepts we live in Adam's flesh? I point out all die, thus an angel transports the soul, but to a different when. Now the soul goes straight to Paradise, all though most think a soul is just waiting for a new body, thus a time jump where a soul currently has no body. It may be only 2 days or almost 48 hours for those in Paradise since the Cross. If time in Paradise is: 24 hours is equal to 1000 years on earth. But no one likes the 1000/Day point Peter makes. He says do not be ignorant, but many choose to be just that. It is too mysteriously figurative for them. Just be patient? Sure if you wait 1000 years, you can look back in hind sight, no?

keras · Jan 31, 2021

claninja said:
One of the best and most thorough books on biblical chronology that I have read is Martin Anstey's "The Romance of Biblical Chronology".

So explain how my use in post #8; of 47 Bible verses is not 'best and most thorough'.

nolidad · Jan 31, 2021

Freedm said:
Two kingdoms? Who said anything about two kingdoms? There's only one kingdom of God.

Correct and the 1,000 year kingdom is the one described in great detail in the OYT! The only thing that was new abut teh kingdom in the NT was how long it would last! 1,000 years.

Spiritual Jew · Jan 31, 2021

nolidad said:
If we are living in the 1,000 year reign of Jesus on earth, I want my money back!!!!!

If the world as it is is the best that the Lord can do as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and ruling with a rod of iron- He lied!

but this is not the millenial reign and He has not been established as king yet.

You don't believe He is currently King of kings and Lord of lords? What Jesus do you believe in? I believe in the Jesus who is currently King of kings and Lord of lords.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

claninja · Jan 31, 2021

keras said:
So explain how my use in post #8; of 47 Bible verses is not 'best and most thorough'.

A few things to point out.

keras said:
Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BCE subtracted back from 586 BCE, from:
Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 6:7 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BCE

I would agree with the math here which, when added together = 1656 years from adam to the flood.

keras said:
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4
Total years so far = 2000

The issue I have here is the +70 for Abram.

Was Abram a triplet? I don't believe so.
Genesis 11:26 When Terah had lived 70 years, he fathered Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

Notice Terah lived 205 years
Genesis 11:32 The days of Terah were 205 years, and Terah died in Haran.

Abram was 75 when he left haran.
Genesis 12:4 So Abram went, as the LORD had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran

If Abram left Haran at 75, After his father passed at 205, it seems to stand that Abram was born around the time that Terah was 130 (205-75).

Acts 7:4 So Abraham left the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. After his father died, God brought him out of that place and into this land where you are now living.

Therefore, I would argue your +70 and +52 should be replaced with +130. This leads Abram's birth to be 2008 years from Adam.

keras said:
Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8
Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BCE.
[Many ancient records say Comet Typhon passed close the earth at that time. It was the cause of many of the disasters in Egypt.]

Wasn't abram 75 years when God first the made the promise to him? Add 75 to 2008 and it brings you to 2083 from adam to the time of God's calling to Abram. Add +430 to this to bring you to the exodus, which would be around 2513 years from Adam.

genesis 12:1-4 Now the LORD saida to Abram, “Go from your countryb and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”cSo Abram went, as the LORD had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran

keras said:
1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus..

edit:

the lxx of 1 kings 6:1 says 440 years. The Masoretic of 1 kings 6:1 has 480 years. Paul seems to give more than 480 years in acts 13. how do you reconcile this?

keras said:
586 BCE + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5 CE, the date of Jesus’ baptism. Luke 3:1 Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.

3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years from Adam to Jesus.

There really is no detail in here for how you came up with 613.5 years. It just seems that you subtracted where you believe the baptism occurred minus the 586. Are you using secular chronology or biblical chronology for this?

claninja · Jan 31, 2021

Freedm said:
Interesting. So just to confirm; you're saying that Satan's short time has already passed? Does that mean you're also saying that the thousand years is already over and Satan has already been thrown into the lake of fire?

I'm saying satan's "short time" began following the 1st resurrection, which is Christ, when he was cast out at the ascension.

Freedm · Jan 31, 2021

throughfireytrial said:
I believe the thousand year reign is symbolic of the unknown time of Christ's Second Coming...which shall be Judgement Day. I know many take this Thousand Year Reign literally, considering our differences then I shall respond to the question in part here at least...you seem to welcome such a response.

Just to clarify, I too do not take the thousand year to mean a literal thousand years, but rather a long and undefined length of time. It sounds like I gave you the wrong impression on that point.

Revelation 20:9 - Are we nearly there?

Truth-Lover

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads