Is Salvation instantenous or is it a process?

Brightfame52

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Again, you have to make the case that future sin is forgiven a believer. I just don't see that mentioned in the Scriptures at all. In fact, the Bible mentions the exact opposite in that only past sins are forgiven only if we confess our sins and we forsake them. Try reading and believing 1 John 1:9 for starters.
The case is made, God will not impute sin Rom 4:8!
 
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klutedavid

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Romans 4:7-8 is in reference to past sin that is confessed and forsaken. Nowhere does the Bible teach that future sin is forgiven for a believer. 1 John 1:9 says “if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
2 Peter 1:9 says, “But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.”

Believers who justify sin can be in the kingdom and then they can later be cast out due to their justifying sin or iniquity. How so?

Matthew 13:41-42 says “The Son of man [i.e. Jesus] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity [i.e. sin]; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire [i.e. the Lake of Fire]: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”​

In other words, a believer can be in the kingdom of Christ, but they can be cast out later at the judgment if they do iniquity. Christ's angels will gather those in Christ's kingdm who do iniquity and they will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
If the text (Matthew 13:41-42) you quoted, includes believers, then your argument is valid. If the text (Matthew 13:41-42) is referring to those that did not accept the messiah. Then you have misled people regarding that text.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I dont see anything unfriendly about an exclamation point, in any case, a person is in Christ before the foundation of the world if theyre Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4. That said they are always saved eternally, but when born in time physically, they are lost , dead in sin like all sinners, but in due time God will save them from that spiritually lost state.

Jesus said that those who don’t remain in Him are cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned. So we’re talking about people who were in Christ then later fell away, not people who were written in the book of life because the book of life only contains those who will endure to the end not those who will fall away.

“And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation. All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:6-8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
 
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Brightfame52

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Jesus said that those who don’t remain in Him are cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned. So we’re talking about people who were in Christ then later fell away, not people who were written in the book of life because the book of life only contains those who will endure to the end not those who will fall away.

“And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation. All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:6-8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
Yet them Christ died for God will not impute sin to their account.
 
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BNR32FAN

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His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 and to them He will not impute sin Rom 4:8

“and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
 
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Brightfame52

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“and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
That is His Sheep and will not impute sin.
 
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Brightfame52

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The whole world is not Christ’s sheep because the whole world do not hear and follow. John 10:27
No theres two whole worlds, one in 1 Jn 5:19 thats not Christ Sheep, and 1 Jn 2:2 that is Christ Sheep that dont have sins charged to them. Gods wrath has been satisfied for them.
 
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BNR32FAN

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No theres two whole worlds, one in 1 Jn 5:19 thats not Christ Sheep, and 1 Jn 2:2 that is Christ Sheep that dont have sins charged to them. Gods wrath has been satisfied for them.

Those are not examples of two different worlds. The word world isn’t even in 1 John 2:2.
 
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Hazelelponi

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The whole world is not Christ’s sheep because the whole world do not hear and follow. John 10:27

I think "the whole world" is simply a reference to "the nations" whom God brings into the fold.

We in the west often see ourselves as the center of Christian faith, but its always been Israel as the center, with us being the outliers who are the fulfillment of prophecy. We are the recipients of the light that went out to the whole world or to the farthest reaches of the world.. not center stage.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yes they are two different worlds

My little children He is not only the propitiation for our sins but for the WHOLE WORLD. Not only the propitiation for the children but for the whole world, including those who are not His children. This doesn’t mean that everyone will receive the atonement it just means that He has paid for the sins of all.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I think "the whole world" is simply a reference to "the nations" whom God brings into the fold.

We in the west often see ourselves as the center of Christian faith, but its always been Israel as the center, with us being the outliers who are the fulfillment of prophecy. We are the recipients of the light that went out to the whole world or to the farthest reaches of the world.. not center stage.

Ive never seen a verse that implies that Jesus’ sacrifice didn’t pay for a particular groups sin. Every reference I see says that He was sent to save the world. I believe His sacrifice did pay for every single person who ever lived both good and evil and He will choose who He will allow into heaven and who He won’t because He paid the price.
 
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Brightfame52

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My little children He is not only the propitiation for our sins but for the WHOLE WORLD. Not only the propitiation for the children but for the whole world, including those who are not His children. This doesn’t mean that everyone will receive the atonement it just means that He has paid for the sins of all.
You adding to scripture. Its the whole world of the saved, jew and gentile.
 
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BNR32FAN

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You adding to scripture. Its the whole world of the saved, jew and gentile.

What did I add? Your the one adding the term “the whole world of the saved” that is not what the verse says nor is that term used anywhere throughout the Bible. I chose this verse because it demonstrates that not only is Jesus the propitiation for our sins but also for the whole world’s sins. It’s a contrast between His children and those who are not His children. Friend don’t allow your doctrines to define the scriptures, allow the scriptures to define your doctrines.

“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
 
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Hazelelponi

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Ive never seen a verse that implies that Jesus’ sacrifice didn’t pay for a particular groups sin. Every reference I see says that He was sent to save the world. I believe His sacrifice did pay for every single person who ever lived both good and evil and He will choose who He will allow into heaven and who He won’t because He paid the price.

His sacrifice was enough to pay the price for all, but not all will be saved. There is no universal salvation. He died for the elect which includes some people from every nation, tribe and tongue, a multitude no one can number. Jesus is the sole path to salvation, there is only judgement for those outside of Christ.

This is my opinion of what scripture teaches.
 
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