Is the gospel more than 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

Butterball1 · Jan 28, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
After we are saved by God's grace (without the deeds of the Law alone), I believe Sanctification (living holy by God's power working in us) is the next step or stage in the salvation process (2 Thessalonians 2:13). Sanctification of the Spirit is the call of the gospel (2 Thessalonians 2:14), but it is not the gospel. I believe we obey the gospel by believing that Christ died for our sins, and that He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (i.e. that we will one day be saved in the bodily resurrection by the hope of what Christ did for us with His death, burial, and resurrection).

Paul says, “But they have not all obeyed the gospel.” (Romans 10:16).
This is in context to Israel being saved.

“Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." (Romans 10:1).

The gospel that many Israelites did not receive was in accepting Jesus Christ and what He did for us with His death, burial, and resurrection.

As for baptism: I believe there was a transitional period of the apostles trying to catch up with God's new program vs. John the baptist's Old covenant way of water baptism. It was hard for the Jewish apostles to let go of the Old ways. It was not an overnight thing. Even the inclusion of the Gentiles was a new change that they had to learn and discover. While I am not against a believer wanting to water baptize, I believe the new form of baptism today is being baptized by the Holy Spirit, which can sometimes include the laying on of hands to receive the Spirit if a person did not naturally receive the Spirit (See: Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7 for the new change in God's program involving baptism).

Side Note:

I believe when we obey the gospel by believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen on our behalf for salvation, we will receive a new heart with new desires. We will receive the Holy Spirit. So we are given power to overcome grievous sin (i.e. mortal sin) in this life (Which I believe is a part of our Sanctification or salvation). But we must endure. We must do our part. God is not going to force salvation upon us. Anyways, I personally do not want to make assumptions on the gospel that are not clearly spelled out in the Bible point blank because of the warning given to us in Galatians 1:8.

THose Jews were lost, Romans 10:1 because they would not obey the gospel, the refused to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ per Acts 2:38. The "remnant" of Jews that Paul says were saved were the ones that did obey the gospel by submitting to water baptism.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 the gospel must be obeyed for one not to be lost. The fact obedience must take place eliminates Luther's idea of justification by faith only. Just a 'mental acknowledgement' of Christ's death burial and resurrection is not obedience. Acts 2:38 does not command men to "mentally acknowledge" Christ's death burial and resurrection but to carry it out in water baptism.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 28, 2021

Butterball1 said:
THose Jews were lost, Romans 10:1 because they would not obey the gospel, the refused to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ per Acts 2:38. The "remnant" of Jews that Paul says were saved were the ones that did obey the gospel by submitting to water baptism.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 the gospel must be obeyed for one not to be lost. The fact obedience must take place eliminates Luther's idea of justification by faith only. Just a 'mental acknowledgement' of Christ's death burial and resurrection is not obedience. Acts 2:38 does not command men to "mentally acknowledge" Christ's death burial and resurrection but to carry it out in water baptism.

Paul says, “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." (1 Corinthians 1:17).

You are saying that baptisim is a part of the gospel, but Paul differientates between “baptism" and “preaching the gospel" as two different things when he says he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel. If what you say is true, Paul would have said,

“I come not to preach the gospel which includes baptism, but I come to preach the gospel that involves baptism"

If Paul said that, people would have thought he was crazy.

mlepfitjw · Jan 28, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Right, I don't adhere to the popular sin and still be saved Protestant view. Note: When I say “sin and still be saved" I am talking about how Protestants don't believe they lose their salvation when they fall into committing a grievous sin (i.e. mortal sin) before they get a chance to confess of such a sin to the Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1). While many Protestants will say that they will not live a sinful lifestyle, they also contradict themselves and misinterpret 1 John 1:8 as saying that they are always in some kind of sin (But they never say what that sin is). So they believe they can sin and still be saved on some level. Many of them told me that King David was saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder. This is teaching others that they also can go out and do these sins and still be saved. Men like George Sodini had believed his Pastor that he could do horrible sins and be saved while doing so. So that is exactly what he did. George Sodini killed a bunch of people and then took his own life and wrote in his own suicide note that salvation did not depend on works and Jesus paid for all his future sins. So yes, my following of God's Word is unorthodox to the popular view of Christianity today.

God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). But God does not force us to live holy against our will. Yes, He gives us a new heart with new desires, but we also have free will.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

We are told to:

Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).

Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

There is no more condemnation to those in Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT (Romans 8:1). For Romans 8:13 says if we live after the flesh, we will die (die spiritually), but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, we will live (live eternally).

Thank you for your explanation on how you see scripture, I believe what you are telling and sharing is truthful. The only thing is about people being cut off, I believe that people can still believe they might suffer spiritually, that they are babes in Christ Jesus. Still saved only they have a certain measure of faith as explained in Romans 12:3. It's almost like climbing a ladder in the faith. Some people get really close to God by obey what has been told to them by the word of God in which you are able to read and have your faith be built up more and more as you trust God, and you believe, and you Love Him, and your love spreads to others. Even if that love requires truth, and might cause us to suffer because may people do not understand, reject, or may hate us for walking in honesty rather than being crafty with the word.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 28, 2021

Agallagher said:
Thank you for your explanation on how you see scripture, I believe what you are telling and sharing is truthful. The only thing is about people being cut off, I believe that people can still believe they might suffer spiritually, that they are babes in Christ Jesus. Still saved only they have a certain measure of faith as explained in Romans 12:3. It's almost like climbing a ladder in the faith. Some people get really close to God by obey what has been told to them by the word of God in which you are able to read and have your faith be built up more and more as you trust God, and you believe, and you Love Him, and your love spreads to others. Even if that love requires truth, and might cause us to suffer because may people do not understand, reject, or may hate us for walking in honesty rather than being crafty with the word.

A believer abiding temporarily in spiritual death via by their committing grievous sin (i.e. mortal sin) does not mean they are permanently cut off. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). He that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). God's grace knows no bounds if we honestly stumbled unintentionally. But we cannot justify sin, either. We cannot think we can commit grievous sin ahead of time with the thinking we will be saved while we do a particular sin. Salvation does not work like that. Jude 1:4 warns us against turning God's grace into a license for immorality. Matthew 7:23 talks about those believers who did wonderful works in Christ's name, but Jesus told these believers to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity (sin), too. Matthew 13:41-42 says that the Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth his angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend and those who work iniquity (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). So a believer can be in the kingdom and cast out on account of their justifying sin. They will be cast out at the Judgment before Christ hands His Kingdom over to God the Father.

Butterball1 · Jan 28, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Paul says, “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." (1 Corinthians 1:17).

You are saying that baptisim is a part of the gospel, but Paul differientates between “baptism" and “preaching the gospel" as two different things when he says he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel. If what you say is true, Paul would have said,

“I come not to preach the gospel which includes baptism, but I come to preach the gospel that involves baptism"

If Paul said that, people would have thought he was crazy.

1 Corinthians 1:17 is a not-but elliptical statement where Paul is putting more emphasis on his preaching over baptizing but not to the total exclusion of baptizing. 1 Corinthians 1:14,16 obviously Paul did baptize and did not sin in doing so. Paul, as all disciples, are under the great commission to go teach and baptize, Matthew 28:19-20. For 1 Cor 1:17 to teach NOT to baptize would be a 180 degree contradiction to the great commission....and the Bible does not contradict itself.

The issue in Corinth at that time is instead of all of those Corinthians being "of" Christ they were instead following the person who had baptized thus some were "of" Paul or "of" Cephas or "of" Apollos, 1 Corinthians 1:12. Hence the reason Paul did not baptize many of them was NOT because baptism is not part of the gospel but because "Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name". Paul did not want to add to the division already there by baptizing whereby some might claim Paul was trying to make "Paulites" in his own name.

=======================================
1 Corinthians 1:13 "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Here in verse 13, Paul tries to heal the division in Corinth and have ALL be OF Christ. Paul's point here in v13 is to show that in order to be "of" someone 2 things MUST be true. That someone must...
1) be crucified for you
and
2) you must be baptized in that someone's name.

Since these 2 things are only true of Christ, then no one could be "of" Paul nor "of" Apollos nor "of" Cephas.

So if you or I or anyone else is to be "of" Christ then BOTH of these two things MUST be true. Was Christ crucified for us? Yes, Hebrews 2:9 Christ tasted death for every man. Then why isn't every man saved? For every man has NOT been baptized in the name of Christ. Again, BOTH MUST be true not just one. The phrase 'in the name of' is a legal term showing ownership. People purchase new vehicles and have those vehicles registered "in the name of", registered in their own name to show their ownership of that vehicle. Those not baptized have not come into the ownership of Christ, they are not "of" Christ.

GDL · Jan 28, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Is the gospel more than 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

Yes it is.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 28, 2021

Bible Highlighter · Jan 28, 2021

Butterball1 said:
1 Corinthians 1:17 is a not-but elliptical statement where Paul is putting more emphasis on his preaching over baptizing but not to the total exclusion of baptizing. 1 Corinthians 1:14,16 obviously Paul did baptize and did not sin in doing so. Paul, as all disciples, are under the great commission to go teach and baptize, Matthew 28:19-20. For 1 Cor 1:17 to teach NOT to baptize would be a 180 degree contradiction to the great commission....and the Bible does not contradict itself.

The issue in Corinth at that time is instead of all of those Corinthians being "of" Christ they were instead following the person who had baptized thus some were "of" Paul or "of" Cephas or "of" Apollos, 1 Corinthians 1:12. Hence the reason Paul did not baptize many of them was NOT because baptism is not part of the gospel but because "Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name". Paul did not want to add to the division already there by baptizing whereby some might claim Paul was trying to make "Paulites" in his own name.

=======================================
1 Corinthians 1:13 "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Here in verse 13, Paul tries to heal the division in Corinth and have ALL be OF Christ. Paul's point here in v13 is to show that in order to be "of" someone 2 things MUST be true. That someone must...
1) be crucified for you
and
2) you must be baptized in that someone's name.

Since these 2 things are only true of Christ, then no one could be "of" Paul nor "of" Apollos nor "of" Cephas.

So if you or I or anyone else is to be "of" Christ then BOTH of these two things MUST be true. Was Christ crucified for us? Yes, Hebrews 2:9 Christ tasted death for every man. Then why isn't every man saved? For every man has NOT been baptized in the name of Christ. Again, BOTH MUST be true not just one. The phrase 'in the name of' is a legal term showing ownership. People purchase new vehicles and have those vehicles registered "in the name of", registered in their own name to show their ownership of that vehicle. Those not baptized have not come into the ownership of Christ, they are not "of" Christ.

I see this kind of belief more as one following a denomination than one seeking out the truth in what the Scriptures plainly say with God’s help. But you are free to believe as you wish (of course). I am just not able to stretch the basic meaning of 1 Corinthians 1:17 in the way that you have done, my friend.

GDL · Jan 28, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Yes, I now believe Galatians 3:8 is included in that but it merely emphasizes the resurrection. I am also considering in accepting 1 Corinthians 15:5-8, as well. The gospel also is called the gospel of grace, too.

As I've also pointed out in several discussions before, and after doing some fairly extensive study stemming from the 1Cor15:1-4 "gospel" concept, when you take in Pauls' discussion of "Jesus" Christ as the only foundation that can be built upon (1Cor3), and track Paul back to earlier days in Corinth (and the reason he says in 1Cor15:1 that he had "preached" to them before), we see the Spirit compelling him to focus on Jesus [is] Christ (Acts18:5 in very emphatic language), and then back to Acts 13:16-41 where we see his most detailed proclamation/preaching of the reasons Jesus is Christ (including His death, burial & resurrection) and including a reference back to Ps2 to instruct just who and what YHWH's Anointed (Messiah/Christ) is and how the earth is His inheritance (Peter proclaimed similarly earlier in Acts).

Those in 1Cor15 had received this instruction. Paul had laid the foundation that Jesus is Christ, and just who & what Christ is - the King of kings who the earth belongs to.

Apart from this, the Gospel has no foundation. Christ dying is virtually meaningless unless we know what the Christ is. Christ dying is virtually meaningless unless we know that Jesus is The Sinless Christ who died & was resurrected.

The Good News was founded in that YHWH's Anointed had been identified after millennia of hope. The entirety of the Gospel builds from there. And as Paul identifies in 1Cor15, apart from the resurrection of Jesus the Christ, our faith is essentially meaningless.

We point to Jesus - The Christ - and then to what He has done for us. We bow to Him for who & what He is. His death for us in Grace simultaneously tears at us and begins to develop an awe and respect and love for Him and for our Father who sent Him & drew us to Him, and His resurrection provides for us an evidence and a hope that goes along with the eternity God has placed in our hearts.

If we're going to imitate Paul's building practice, I think we should place the solid foundation he placed. He said there is no other foundation that can be placed, which is Jesus [is] Christ (absolute ruler above all kings per Ps2).

Guojing · Jan 28, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Yes, thank you. I was already thinking about Galatians 3:8 yesterday before I seen your post this morning.

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.” (Galatians 3:8).

I think the heart of Abraham's descendants being like the stars of heaven is tied to us being the first fruits of the resurrection (Which is a part of believing the resurrection in the gospel). I see the gospel more clearly defined as 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, or 1 Corinthians 15:1-8. The fleshing out of details or the benefit of this good news can be seen in other parts of Scripture. But yes. The good news would include believers being like that of the stars of Heaven. So beautiful that truth is indeed. Surely that is good news that many will live when we all deserved to die.

The gospel is not "more clearly defined" in 1 Cor 15:1-4. Rather the gospel that saves NOW is found in 1 Cor 15:1-4.

But Israel in time past received a different good news, one that saves them if they believe. For example, John 20:31 and Acts 3:19-21 is about the gospel of the kingdom, Israel needed to believe that Jesus Christ is their promised Son of God, to be given eternal life when Jesus returns for Israel in the 2nd coming.

Israel did not have to believe 1 Cor 15:1-4, during that time, in order to be saved, or rather, placed in Abraham's bosom after their life on Earth ended (Luke 16:22, Luke 23:43).

Gregory Thompson · Jan 28, 2021

In general, Gospel means good news, so if it doesn't sound like good news - something crucial is missing from the understanding of the message.

section9+1 · Jan 29, 2021

Colossians 1:15-23 pretty much says it.

Jesus is YHWH · Jan 29, 2021

Its really quite simple there is only One Gospel

There is only One Gospel

Butterball1 · Jan 29, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I see this kind of belief more as one following a denomination than one seeking out the truth in what the Scriptures plainly say with God’s help. But you are free to believe as you wish (of course). I am just not able to stretch the basic meaning of 1 Corinthians 1:17 in the way that you have done, my friend.

Simply put, denying water baptism is the same as denying the gospel.

Again, Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:...." The logical implication is those who rejected Peter's gospel message rejected baptism...not being baptized = rejection of gospel.

Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized....."

Romans 1:16 it was God's purpose the salvation of the gospel go to the Gentiles and in Acts 10 we have record of the first Gentile converts. THerefore any Jew that attempted to forbid water baptism going to the Gentiles would be an attempt in thwarting GOd's plan of salvation going to the Gentiles. This water baptism was "in the name of the Lord" Acts 10:48 which is the same "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) of Acts 2:38 which is in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins > salvation. Peter's use of the word "water" obviously refers to water baptism as does Christ use of the word "water" in John 3:5 also refers to this one water baptism.

No where in 1 Corinthians 1 (or anywhere else) did Paul say baptism (noun) is not part of the gospel but simply pointed out he was to put more emphasis on preaching (verb) over baptizing (verb). Paul DID baptize (1 Corinthians 1:14-16) for he was under the great commission to go teach and baptize. Paul preached the necessity of water baptism as in 1 Corinthians 1:13; Romans 6; Colossians 2, etc. Paul was water baptized himself in order to be saved/have sins removed (Acts 22:16).

1 Corinthians 1:13 Paul shows one must be baptized in the name of Christ to be "of" Christ. No getting around it.

The idea that water baptism is not essential to salvation came from erroneous man-made doctrines as faith only-ism.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 29, 2021

Butterball1 said:
Simply put, denying water baptism is the same as denying the gospel.

Again, Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:...." The logical implication is those who rejected Peter's gospel message rejected baptism...not being baptized = rejection of gospel.

Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized....."

Romans 1:16 it was God's purpose the salvation of the gospel go to the Gentiles and in Acts 10 we have record of the first Gentile converts. THerefore any Jew that attempted to forbid water baptism going to the Gentiles would be an attempt in thwarting GOd's plan of salvation going to the Gentiles. This water baptism was "in the name of the Lord" Acts 10:48 which is the same "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) of Acts 2:38 which is in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins > salvation. Peter's use of the word "water" obviously refers to water baptism as does Christ use of the word "water" in John 3:5 also refers to this one water baptism.

No where in 1 Corinthians 1 (or anywhere else) did Paul say baptism (noun) is not part of the gospel but simply pointed out he was to put more emphasis on preaching (verb) over baptizing (verb). Paul DID baptize (1 Corinthians 1:14-16) for he was under the great commission to go teach and baptize. Paul preached the necessity of water baptism as in 1 Corinthians 1:13; Romans 6; Colossians 2, etc. Paul was water baptized himself in order to be saved/have sins removed (Acts 22:16).

1 Corinthians 1:13 Paul shows one must be baptized in the name of Christ to be "of" Christ. No getting around it.

The idea that water baptism is not essential to salvation came from erroneous man-made doctrines as faith only-ism.

Not at all. You are assuming the disciples did not make mistakes or did things based on not fully understanding God's message completely. Peter was rebuked by the apostle Paul. The disciples misunderstood Jesus about His reference to a sword. The disciples misunderstood His reason in going to the cross. The disciples did not understand that Christ would be risen from the grave three days later. So there was much the disciples did not understand, and they had to play catch up with what our Lord meant involving the Great Commission when he told them to baptize all nations.

I believe Jesus was referring to Spirit baptism and not water baptism in Matthew 28:19, and that the disciples merely misunderstood Him (yet again). We see this Spirit baptism done by the apostle Paul in Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7.

Here are some great articles for reading (to help you to see where I am coming from).

biblestudying.net

What is True Baptism? | Truth Or Tradition?

Side Note:

Oh, and I am strongly against Belief Alone-ism or Sin and Still Be Saved Type Beliefs. I believe Sanctification plays a part in our salvation after we are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. But we cannot redefine the gospel in what we like it to say vs. what the Bible says it means. Nowhere does any NT Scripture state that the gospel includes baptism. In my experience in attending the church of Christ, they are all about getting people baptized, but they are not for preaching the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. This is wrong.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 29, 2021

Butterball1 · Jan 29, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Not at all. You are assuming the disciples did not make mistakes or did things based on not fully understanding God's message completely. Peter was rebuked by the apostle Paul. The disciples misunderstood Jesus about His reference to a sword. The disciples misunderstood His reason in going to the cross. The disciples did not understand that Christ would be risen from the grave three days later. So there was much the disciples did not understand, and they had to play catch up with what our Lord meant involving the Great Commission when he told them to baptize all nations.

I believe Jesus was referring to Spirit baptism and not water baptism in Matthew 28:19, and that the disciples merely misunderstood Him (yet again). We see this Spirit baptism done by the apostle Paul in Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7.

Here are some great articles for reading (to help you to see where I am coming from).

biblestudying.net

What is True Baptism? | Truth Or Tradition?

Side Note:

Oh, and I am strongly against Belief Alone-ism or Sin and Still Be Saved Type Beliefs. I believe Sanctification plays a part in our salvation after we are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. But we cannot redefine the gospel in what we like it to say vs. what the Bible says it means. Nowhere does any NT Scripture state that the gospel includes baptism. In my experience in attending the church of Christ, they are all about getting people baptized, but they are not for preaching the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8. This is wrong.

The Apostles clearly understood the necessity of water baptism.

---by the time Paul penned His Ephesian epistle there was and now is "one baptism" in effect.

---a few things about the baptism of the great commission, Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; Luke 24:47....it was commanded, it was for all men/every creature, it saves, it was administered by humans (disciples) and lasts till the end of the world. None of these things are true about baptism with the Holy Spirit. But all of these things are true about water baptism as seen by Christ's and Peter's use of the word "water" Acts 10:47; John 3:5 and people being water baptized Acts 8:38-39 by men/disciples.

---as per Paul baptizing with the Holy Spirit, Acts 19:5 says those Ephesians were " they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Which is the same one water baptism of Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47-48 which are also in the name of the Lord. Again, the "one baptism" of Eph 4:5 is water baptism IN THE NAME OF THE LORD for remission of sins. Nowhere is any spirit baptism said to be in the name of Lord, nor is it ever said spirit baptism saves/remits sin.

---from Matthew 3:11 it would be the Lord that would baptize men with the Holy Ghost not Paul, not any other disciple, not anyone today. No one today can baptize another with the Holy Spirit. But men today can water baptize others as Paul water baptized some of those Corinthians.

---to have baptism of the great commission to be some kind of spirit baptism is not provable. But an attempt to get around the necessity of water baptism.

=========

In one of the links you provided me above it says in the very first line "When you read the title of this article and saw the word “baptism,” did you immediately think about water?" Proper interpretation requires words to be taken at literal face value unless something in the context determines otherwise. In other words, baptism--baptizo is to be understood as a literal immersion in water unless the context shows otherwise. There is nothing in the context of Matt 28:19-20, Mk 16:15-16, Epheisans 4:5 that baptism is used in any figurative sense (as some spirit baptism) but literal immersion in water. To force spirit baptism into various verses moves from proper interpretation to inserting theological bias.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 29, 2021

Butterball1 said:
The Apostles clearly understood the necessity of water baptism.

---by the time Paul penned His Ephesian epistle there was and now is "one baptism" in effect.

---a few things about the baptism of the great commission, Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; Luke 24:47....it was commanded, it was for all men/every creature, it saves, it was administered by humans (disciples) and lasts till the end of the world. None of these things are true about baptism with the Holy Spirit. But all of these things are true about water baptism as seen by Christ's and Peter's use of the word "water" Acts 10:47; John 3:5 and people being water baptized Acts 8:38-39 by men/disciples.

---as per Paul baptizing with the Holy Spirit, Acts 19:5 says those Ephesians were " they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Which is the same one water baptism of Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47-48 which are also in the name of the Lord. Again, the "one baptism" of Eph 4:5 is water baptism IN THE NAME OF THE LORD for remission of sins. Nowhere is any spirit baptism said to be in the name of Lord, nor is it ever said spirit baptism saves/remits sin.

---from Matthew 3:11 it would be the Lord that would baptize men with the Holy Ghost not Paul, not any other disciple, not anyone today. No one today can baptize another with the Holy Spirit. But men today can water baptize others as Paul water baptized some of those Corinthians.

---to have baptism of the great commission to be some kind of spirit baptism is not provable. But an attempt to get around the necessity of water baptism.

=========

In one of the links you provided me above it says in the very first line "When you read the title of this article and saw the word “baptism,” did you immediately think about water?" Proper interpretation requires words to be taken at literal face value unless something in the context determines otherwise. In other words, baptism--baptizo is to be understood as a literal immersion in water unless the context shows otherwise. There is nothing in the context of Matt 28:19-20, Mk 16:15-16, Epheisans 4:5 that baptism is used in any figurative sense (as some spirit baptism) but literal immersion in water. To force spirit baptism into various verses moves from proper interpretation to inserting theological bias.

Matthew 28:19 - "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

Acts of the Apostles 2:38 - Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Here are some verses that we need to add to these two above...

Acts of the Apostles 1:5 - for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:17 - But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Here's the idea:

Foundationally baptism at it's core is a picture of immersion. When a person is baptized into the Spirit, it is a spiritual immersion. Baptism into the Father, the Word, and Holy Spirit is an individual receiving the Spirit after they believe in the gospel. It does not include water. Such a thing was John's baptism. Peter realized this truth in Acts between Acts 10 and 11.

Acts of the Apostles 11:15-17 says:

"And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, `John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?”

The words bolded in red point us back to Acts of the Apostles 1:5.
The words bolded in blue points us back to Acts of the Apostles 2:38. Therefore, if we take this line of thinking back to Matthew 28, the Lord Jesus Christ is telling us that a person must be saved through faith by abiding in the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit as part of the great commission. We must be immersed in the name of the triune God. We must be immersed in God. Water only gets you wet.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 29, 2021

Butterball1 said:
The Apostles clearly understood the necessity of water baptism.

---by the time Paul penned His Ephesian epistle there was and now is "one baptism" in effect.

---a few things about the baptism of the great commission, Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; Luke 24:47....it was commanded, it was for all men/every creature, it saves, it was administered by humans (disciples) and lasts till the end of the world. None of these things are true about baptism with the Holy Spirit. But all of these things are true about water baptism as seen by Christ's and Peter's use of the word "water" Acts 10:47; John 3:5 and people being water baptized Acts 8:38-39 by men/disciples.

---as per Paul baptizing with the Holy Spirit, Acts 19:5 says those Ephesians were " they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Which is the same one water baptism of Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47-48 which are also in the name of the Lord. Again, the "one baptism" of Eph 4:5 is water baptism IN THE NAME OF THE LORD for remission of sins. Nowhere is any spirit baptism said to be in the name of Lord, nor is it ever said spirit baptism saves/remits sin.

---from Matthew 3:11 it would be the Lord that would baptize men with the Holy Ghost not Paul, not any other disciple, not anyone today. No one today can baptize another with the Holy Spirit. But men today can water baptize others as Paul water baptized some of those Corinthians.

---to have baptism of the great commission to be some kind of spirit baptism is not provable. But an attempt to get around the necessity of water baptism.

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In one of the links you provided me above it says in the very first line "When you read the title of this article and saw the word “baptism,” did you immediately think about water?" Proper interpretation requires words to be taken at literal face value unless something in the context determines otherwise. In other words, baptism--baptizo is to be understood as a literal immersion in water unless the context shows otherwise. There is nothing in the context of Matt 28:19-20, Mk 16:15-16, Epheisans 4:5 that baptism is used in any figurative sense (as some spirit baptism) but literal immersion in water. To force spirit baptism into various verses moves from proper interpretation to inserting theological bias.

Acts of the Apostles 19:5 is not referring to water baptism.

First, they said they were already baptized according to John's baptism (Which was obviously water baptism) (See: Acts of the Apostles 3:3).

Second, verse 6 defines what kind of baptism this was.

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” (Acts of the Apostles 19:5-6).

Is the gospel more than 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

May you be blessed!

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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my Lord and my God !

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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