"Whiteness"

Heartofsilver · Jan 25, 2021

Whiteness

Hello everyone,

I have been around my fiancee's family and have been hearing their views lately and a while ago my fiance posted about the new part of the Smithsonian where they are discussing a new category in their museum or in their repertoire about "whiteness". I actually found it to be very racist towards people who are white . I was thinking that maybe this was coming from with him being more leftistand His family has also been Democratic for awhile now since, Trump basically and they have had talks with me about BLM which I do not associate with BLM or ALM and they told me that, that's not how it works. I just do not associate with organizations or bias such as these though, I am for racial justice. I also am not a Democrat or Republican . I definitely left my party after this past president and administration because, it just became a radically different place politically in our country and political things just got so crazy eventually I just jump ship and decided to become more independent. I also have decided to just really start talking about racism in general and also I did discuss it with my fiancee's family. His dad told me that you cannot be racist against people who are white and that you could have a deep hatred for people who are white and you can be prejudiced against people who are white but, you cannot be racist against people who are white. I really didn't agree with it and I looked up the dictionary definitions for what racism is and being racist against white people or any race is still racism. He also has shown that taking down statues of confederate soldiers, captains, and the statue of Christopher Columbus with something he was definitely for and I eventually started to agree as I thought about how we should eradicate racism completely out of the US vs people's free speech and history, though I also saw that it seems that racism is being seen differently. Where racism towards white people isn't actually racism. That is not taking racism out of our country, it is just making it look different and keeping it in our country. Just because it looks different doesn't mean it's not sinful. It's the same sin falling under the same category. He did not agree with me and he did not understand what I was saying since, he was saying that white people have been oppressing other races for years. That may be true in history, I just see around me today much inclusivity and integration. Throughout my life I have not seen people less than me by the color their skin. I have just seen them as people and so, I just have a different perspective since I grew up in this time. I just see people of all races and colors going to the same schools, having the same jobs, and having higher positions. I do see that we need laws changed to when it comes to reasonable force and changes to immunity for law enforcement in the court. I think it needs to be more levelled out. I also think that hiring shouldn't depend on if someone's name sounds like it belongs to a black person, our hiring process should be equal. Sometimes, I do fear that what the media is showing us about police and black lives. That they're really enlarging it and making it seem much worse than it is. I'm just afraid that their construing some of it so much that it isn't what they say it is and it scares me. The world that we live in with the media being so corrupted vying for viewer ratings, using fear as control, distracting us from the government's agendas, while getting attention and money.

SoldierOfTheKing · Jan 25, 2021

Heartofsilver said:
His dad told me that you cannot be racist against people who are white and that you could have a deep hatred for people who are white and you can be prejudiced against people who are white but, you cannot be racist against people who are white.

Anyone who has a deep hatred for white people is a threat to you if you're white. To quibble about whether it is "racist" is mere semantics...

Wolseley · Jan 25, 2021

Heartofsilver said:
His dad told me that you cannot be racist against people who are white and that you could have a deep hatred for people who are white and you can be prejudiced against people who are white but, you cannot be racist against people who are white.

That's complete nonsense. The Japanese in World War II considered Caucasians to be "white devils" at best, and sub-humans at worst; and right here in our own country, there are plenty of cases where radicalized blacks have spewed plenty of racist venom about white people---take a look at the ravings of some of the upper echelons of the Black Panther movement in the late 1960s, for example.

Heartofsilver said:
He also has shown that taking down statues of confederate soldiers, captains, and the statue of Christopher Columbus with something he was definitely for and I eventually started to agree as I thought about how we should eradicate racism completely out of the US vs people's free speech and history

But the question is, where does it stop? Do we eventually tear down Mount Vernon and Monticello because Washington and Jefferson came from Virginia? Do we blow up the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and bulldoze the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial because they honor military people, and wars are bad? Should we tear down every Christian church in America and outlaw the speaking of Spanish because the conquistadores mistreated the natives? Where does the "sanitization" of the past stop? There's always going to be something that upsets somebody....so do we just continue to eliminate things until we're sitting in an empty field, devoid of all cultural and civilizational references at all?

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to simply leave things where they are, and teach our children the history behind those monuments and the people who built them?

nhisname · Feb 14, 2021

Heartofsilver said:
Whiteness

Hello everyone,

I have been around my fiancee's family and have been hearing their views lately and a while ago my fiance posted about the new part of the Smithsonian where they are discussing a new category in their museum or in their repertoire about "whiteness". I actually found it to be very racist towards people who are white . I was thinking that maybe this was coming from with him being more leftistand His family has also been Democratic for awhile now since, Trump basically and they have had talks with me about BLM which I do not associate with BLM or ALM and they told me that, that's not how it works. I just do not associate with organizations or bias such as these though, I am for racial justice. I also am not a Democrat or Republican . I definitely left my party after this past president and administration because, it just became a radically different place politically in our country and political things just got so crazy eventually I just jump ship and decided to become more independent. I also have decided to just really start talking about racism in general and also I did discuss it with my fiancee's family. His dad told me that you cannot be racist against people who are white and that you could have a deep hatred for people who are white and you can be prejudiced against people who are white but, you cannot be racist against people who are white. I really didn't agree with it and I looked up the dictionary definitions for what racism is and being racist against white people or any race is still racism. He also has shown that taking down statues of confederate soldiers, captains, and the statue of Christopher Columbus with something he was definitely for and I eventually started to agree as I thought about how we should eradicate racism completely out of the US vs people's free speech and history, though I also saw that it seems that racism is being seen differently. Where racism towards white people isn't actually racism. That is not taking racism out of our country, it is just making it look different and keeping it in our country. Just because it looks different doesn't mean it's not sinful. It's the same sin falling under the same category. He did not agree with me and he did not understand what I was saying since, he was saying that white people have been oppressing other races for years. That may be true in history, I just see around me today much inclusivity and integration. Throughout my life I have not seen people less than me by the color their skin. I have just seen them as people and so, I just have a different perspective since I grew up in this time. I just see people of all races and colors going to the same schools, having the same jobs, and having higher positions. I do see that we need laws changed to when it comes to reasonable force and changes to immunity for law enforcement in the court. I think it needs to be more levelled out. I also think that hiring shouldn't depend on if someone's name sounds like it belongs to a black person, our hiring process should be equal. Sometimes, I do fear that what the media is showing us about police and black lives. That they're really enlarging it and making it seem much worse than it is. I'm just afraid that their construing some of it so much that it isn't what they say it is and it scares me. The world that we live in with the media being so corrupted vying for viewer ratings, using fear as control, distracting us from the government's agendas, while getting attention and money.

Things are getting crazier by the minute why can't we just be human and forget skin color...everyone in the world or an ancestor at one time or another have been beaten down, bullied, ridiculed because of their race or skin color.
In the US we are all came as immigrants except the ones already here no matter how we got here we have all struggled....why can't we just accept that and gone on from hete.

Semper-Fi · Feb 17, 2021

Now they have a teacher guide book
A guide to deconstructing racism in mathematics

A mathematics guide sent out to Oregon schools tells educators that asking
students to show their work in math class is a form of white supremacy.

“White supremacy culture infiltrates math classrooms
in everyday teacher actions,” the guide reads.

Feb 15, 2021 DailyWire.com
Oregon Dept. of Education: Asking Students To ‘Show Their Work’ In Math Class Is A Form Of White Supremacy

Examples of classroom actions that allegedly perpetuate white supremacy include asking students to show their work, focusing on getting the right answer, tracking student success, and grading students.

Math Educator Update: February 2021

Math classes that focus on helping students get the right answer are also a form
of perpetuating white supremacy. The guide claims that calling answers “right
and wrong” perpetuates objectivity, which is considered a tenet of white culture.

Teachers are also asked to “identify and challenge the ways that
math is used to uphold capitalist, imperialist, and racist views.”

The instructional material also suggests teachers expose students to
examples of people who have used math as a form of “resistance.”
-

“Grading for Equity,” How far will this go- may God help us.

Sophrosyne · Feb 17, 2021

During the old westerns on TV we would see them sell what is commonly referred to as "snake oil". People would take a bottle and put stuff in it (often booze) and then claim it cured anything and everything there was and say it is only X amount of money. Instead of people trying to figure out what is in the bottle before buying it and not buying it if the people selling it were evasive and trusting people blindly they throw their money away on overpriced worthless concoctions that do little for their ailments.
This is what most of these leftist group are.. snake oil. They try and convince first that they will cure sicknesses and then toss out symptoms in a way that you start to think maybe you are sick too and need this. Instead of readin the ingredients people buy the "snake oil" hook line and sinker and it is commonly called "social justice".
I don't know about you but I was a geek growing up and shunned to the socialites and to me the term "social justice" means some stuck up snobs are trying to tell me I need to be like them or I'm a criminal... NO THANKS!

Hazelelponi · Feb 17, 2021

Heartofsilver said:
Whiteness

Hello everyone,

I have been around my fiancee's family and have been hearing their views lately and a while ago my fiance posted about the new part of the Smithsonian where they are discussing a new category in their museum or in their repertoire about "whiteness". I actually found it to be very racist towards people who are white . I was thinking that maybe this was coming from with him being more leftistand His family has also been Democratic for awhile now since, Trump basically and they have had talks with me about BLM which I do not associate with BLM or ALM and they told me that, that's not how it works. I just do not associate with organizations or bias such as these though, I am for racial justice. I also am not a Democrat or Republican . I definitely left my party after this past president and administration because, it just became a radically different place politically in our country and political things just got so crazy eventually I just jump ship and decided to become more independent. I also have decided to just really start talking about racism in general and also I did discuss it with my fiancee's family. His dad told me that you cannot be racist against people who are white and that you could have a deep hatred for people who are white and you can be prejudiced against people who are white but, you cannot be racist against people who are white. I really didn't agree with it and I looked up the dictionary definitions for what racism is and being racist against white people or any race is still racism. He also has shown that taking down statues of confederate soldiers, captains, and the statue of Christopher Columbus with something he was definitely for and I eventually started to agree as I thought about how we should eradicate racism completely out of the US vs people's free speech and history, though I also saw that it seems that racism is being seen differently. Where racism towards white people isn't actually racism. That is not taking racism out of our country, it is just making it look different and keeping it in our country. Just because it looks different doesn't mean it's not sinful. It's the same sin falling under the same category. He did not agree with me and he did not understand what I was saying since, he was saying that white people have been oppressing other races for years. That may be true in history, I just see around me today much inclusivity and integration. Throughout my life I have not seen people less than me by the color their skin. I have just seen them as people and so, I just have a different perspective since I grew up in this time. I just see people of all races and colors going to the same schools, having the same jobs, and having higher positions. I do see that we need laws changed to when it comes to reasonable force and changes to immunity for law enforcement in the court. I think it needs to be more levelled out. I also think that hiring shouldn't depend on if someone's name sounds like it belongs to a black person, our hiring process should be equal. Sometimes, I do fear that what the media is showing us about police and black lives. That they're really enlarging it and making it seem much worse than it is. I'm just afraid that their construing some of it so much that it isn't what they say it is and it scares me. The world that we live in with the media being so corrupted vying for viewer ratings, using fear as control, distracting us from the government's agendas, while getting attention and money.

As Christians we must stand for justice. There's no compromise in that because it's absolutely a religious issue, we have to uphold justice.

The issue is the kind of justice groups such as BLM and others uphold, has nothing in common with Biblical justice...

One of the Pastors of our day who have been speaking to this issue, well before BLM ever showed up on the scene, is Pastor Voddie Baucham.

He is very very sick atm and trying to make his way into Oman (I think) right now, hoping to eventually make it here for medical care so please pray for him... (he's been running a university in Africa, but is American)

There are several videos of his you can find that are extremely relevant to the topic. It's good to hear from an actual pastor on these issues who is well versed on these topics.

Wolseley · Feb 17, 2021

Semper-Fi said:
Now they have a teacher guide book
A guide to deconstructing racism in mathematics

A mathematics guide sent out to Oregon schools tells educators that asking
students to show their work in math class is a form of white supremacy.

“White supremacy culture infiltrates math classrooms
in everyday teacher actions,” the guide reads.

Feb 15, 2021 DailyWire.com
Oregon Dept. of Education: Asking Students To ‘Show Their Work’ In Math Class Is A Form Of White Supremacy

Examples of classroom actions that allegedly perpetuate white supremacy include asking students to show their work, focusing on getting the right answer, tracking student success, and grading students.

Math Educator Update: February 2021

Math classes that focus on helping students get the right answer are also a form
of perpetuating white supremacy. The guide claims that calling answers “right
and wrong” perpetuates objectivity, which is considered a tenet of white culture.

Teachers are also asked to “identify and challenge the ways that
math is used to uphold capitalist, imperialist, and racist views.”

The instructional material also suggests teachers expose students to
examples of people who have used math as a form of “resistance.”
-

“Grading for Equity,” How far will this go- may God help us.

So, apparently Oregon feels that if you hold every student to the same standard that would be expected of an illiterate, crack-addled gangbanger living in a ghetto garbage dumpster (i.e., illiterate, brain-damaged, socially hostile, prone to violence and illegal activities), that's better for the students than being exposed to "racism".

Wow.

ViaCrucis · Feb 17, 2021

If we ignore the sins of the past we can't grow into the future. This is why we have Holocaust museums, this is why we can still visit Auschwitz. This is why America needs to face her past directly, and not gloss over it or feign ignorance.

If it makes us uncomfortable, then good. It shouldn't be comfortable.

-CryptoLutheran

SoldierOfTheKing · Feb 17, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
If we ignore the sins of the past we can't grow into the future. This is why we have Holocaust museums, this is why we can still visit Auschwitz. This is why America needs to face her past directly, and not gloss over it or feign ignorance.

Nobody is calling for ignoring anything. But understanding the past doesn't mean being ashamed of it. It's not as though Americans haven't studied their past for centuries. The monuments of which the OP speaks were built preserve our past in our collective memory. Those who advocate ignorance of the past are those who want to tear them down.

ViaCrucis said:
If it makes us uncomfortable, then good. It shouldn't be comfortable.

It's perfectly comfortable for me. My ancestors weren't perfect by any means, but they were decent people.

Be careful about trying to make white people come to terms with their whiteness. They may end up doing so - in ways very different than you intended.

ViaCrucis · Feb 17, 2021

SoldierOfTheKing said:
Nobody is calling for ignoring anything. But understanding the past doesn't mean being ashamed of it. It's not as though Americans haven't studied their past for centuries. The monuments of which the OP speaks were built preserve our past in our collective memory. Those who advocate ignorance of the past are those who want to tear them down.

Pure and utter tosh.

-CryptoLutheran

SoldierOfTheKing · Feb 17, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
Pure and utter tosh.

Go ahead, be dismissive if you want. The fact remains, just because you look at our past and see something to be ashamed of, it would be terrible mistake to assume that everybody sees it the same way, and if "pure and utter tosh" is as strong an argument (or rather non-argument) as you have... you're going to lose the argument.

My forefathers were NOT criminals, and I am PROUD of them.

ViaCrucis · Feb 18, 2021

SoldierOfTheKing said:
Go ahead, be dismissive if you want. The fact remains, just because you look at our past and see something to be ashamed of, it would be terrible mistake to assume that everybody sees it the same way, and if "pure and utter tosh" is as strong an argument (or rather non-argument) as you have... you're going to lose the argument.

My forefathers were NOT criminals, and I am PROUD of them.

I'm a Lutheran, and Martin Luther is one of the most important theologians in our tradition. And he remains a celebrated theologian, several of his writings, such as the Large and Small Catechisms and the Smalcald Articles are essential writings that make up the Lutheran Confessions in the Book of Concord. We do not define ourselves by Luther, as Luther isn't the founder of our Church, Jesus Christ is the One who founded His Holy Catholic Church; Luther was the principle reformer of our Church.

At the same time, Dr. Luther's many flaws and sins are myriad. The same who wrote the 28 Theses that make up the Heidelberg Disputations, who spoke at length of the good and merciful God who meets us in our sin in Christ through the Gospel, who championed the reform of the Mass into the vulgar tongue, and the pure preaching of God's word and the faithful administration of the Holy Sacraments--this Dr. Luther is the same Luther who wrote an antisemitic screed against the Jews. Writing unspeakable and horrible things that would have made even other medieval antisemites blush, and which arguably led to Luther being called Adolf Hitler's "John the Baptist"; perpetuating and establishing further foundations for German antisemitism that could be, and absolutely was, exploited by the Nazis in the 1930s.

I can confess the good theology of Dr. Luther while also condemning the sin and evil perpetuated by him. It's not an either/or proposition.

To confess, and humbly repent, of the sins of the past, and to be honest about them is not about denying the past, but confessing and confronting the past with brutal honesty.

We do not need to glorify wickedness in order to remember the past. The Israelites did not need to set up altars and shrines and high places to the gods of Egypt and Canaan in order to remember that they were slaves in Egypt, out of which God called and rescued them. We do not need to fashion for ourselves golden calves and fall down and worship them; we do not need to fall prostrate before Ba'al, or set up asherim; for these things are idolatry and wicked and do not serve to remind us of the past but only to perpetuate the wickedness of the past.

I do not need to set up statues to honor Pontius Pilate, Herod, or Tiberius Caesar to remember the Holy Passion of our Lord.

I do not need to give homage and a pinch of incense to the images of Nero, Domitian, Decius, or Diocletian in order to honor and remember the spilled blood of Christ's holy martyrs.

I honor the saints and martyrs by remembering them, I do not need to give homage to Caesar in order to honor the martyrs. But we confront the evil of Caesar and proclaim the victory of God through His martyrs and saints; the victory which has been won for us and given to us by the Crucified Lord, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

Confront the past, confess the past, honor what is honorable, but be honest and confront that which is dishonorable and wicked. Address these things, admit them to ourselves, confess them, that we might grow.

-CryptoLutheran

"Whiteness"

Bride of Christ 4/8/17 Isaiah 54:5

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