What is the purpose of life? [moved]

tolja

TedT said:

...People in hell proves the GOD who is Love did not know who would end in hell when HE created them.

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The logic implies either that 'the GOD who is Love' is not omniscient, or that the God that puts people in hell is not 'the GOD who is Love', i.e. is an evil God.

Either seems rather unsatisfactory

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

The logic implies either that 'the GOD who is Love' is not omniscient, or that the God that puts people in hell is not 'the GOD who is Love', i.e. is an evil God.

Either seems rather unsatisfactory

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Indeed....but my inclination is to accept a solution that does not have any hint or aroma of blasphemy against HIS loving nature.

I am currently thinking that HE knows all that HE creates in intricate detail but does not know what HE did not create... IF HE does not create the results of our true free will decisions then HE would not know what they would be before we chose where to put our faith.

Is it possible that the KJV version of Acts 15:18 Known unto GOD are all HIS works from the beginning of the world. supports this idea? All HIS works are HIS decrees of creation. From the beginning of the world does NOT extend into the eternal past. Other versions of this verse do not support this idea but if this is a legitimate translation then this interpretation should be considered, no?

Now I'd like to address why I wrote true free will with true in Italics. I do not think our ability to chose as humans is from by a free will since I accept that it is enslaved / addicted to sin. All our choices are mitigated by our sinfulness which is what makes our 'righteous' decisions as filth. Also, all our lives are predetermined by GOD who would never predetermine our sinfulness though HE could predetermine individual sins if they were in accord with our true free will (before choosing to become sinful) choice to be sinful.

With these considerations in mind, I find it to be no great leap of faith to believe that we had an existence with a true free will before the creation of the world and before we were sent to earth as sinners to live predetermined lives, not fates, Matt 13:36-39 but that is a longer effort.

TedT said:

Indeed....but my inclination is to accept a solution that does not have any hint or aroma of blasphemy against HIS loving nature.

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So your belief is predicated on your belief that your belief is accurate. Such circularity is unappealling to me.

TedT said:

All HIS works are HIS decrees of creation.

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Hence the conflict between the will of God and the will of man.He says we are to stop putting our will ahead of His. For in doing so it seems we are like a car speeding down the road with broken steering linkage.

TedT said:

Is it possible that the KJV version of Acts 15:18 Known unto GOD are all HIS works from the beginning of the world. supports this idea? All HIS works are HIS decrees of creation. From the beginning of the world does NOT extend into the eternal past. Other versions of this verse do not support this idea but if this is a legitimate translation then this interpretation should be considered, no?

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You can interpret it how you please (confirmation bias relies on that).

Now I'd like to address why I wrote true free will with true in Italics. I do not think our ability to chose as humans is from by a free will since I accept that it is enslaved / addicted to sin. All our choices are mitigated by our sinfulness which is what makes our 'righteous' decisions as filth.

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Interesting. So true free will is unmitigated by sinfulness; but since our will is addicted to sin, true free will doesn't truly reflect our freely willed desires, wants, & needs, but the free will that isn't true does... I love these theological self-contradictions - they remind me of that quote about magic:


And, of course, either way, our choices are causal - determined by our predispositions and our life experiences.

Also, all our lives are predetermined by GOD who would never predetermine our sinfulness though HE could predetermine individual sins if they were in accord with our true free will (before choosing to become sinful) choice to be sinful.

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Wait... if true free will can choose to be sinful, how is it different from the free will that is not true free will?

With these considerations in mind, I find it to be no great leap of faith to believe that we had an existence with a true free will before the creation of the world and before we were sent to earth as sinners to live predetermined lives, not fates, Matt 13:36-39 but that is a longer effort.

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Yes, that's consistent - if your interpretation of the original story seems incoherent and self-contradictory, invent a whole new pre-creation ontology - which doesn't really explain anything...

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

Being a 'doubting Thomas' is how you learn. Take nothing for granted, question everything, embrace uncertainty.

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Thank you for the kind words..... So many questions....

Choice was given us in order to be creative when doing the will of the Father. Choice however led us to discover the knowledge of good and evil, and upon discovery of self, we became self obsessed. We put our will ahead of the will of God in order to serve self, becoming like a computer that discovers it's own intelligence and no longer functions according to the will of the keystroker..

Charmy said:

Thank you for the kind words..... So many questions....

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You're welcome - it's a refreshing change to have someone admit to doubts here. Ask away...

timothyu said:

Choice was given us in order to be creative when doing the will of the Father. Choice however led us to discover the knowledge of good and evil, and upon discovery of self, we became self obsessed. We put our will ahead of the will of God in order to serve self, becoming like a computer that discovers it's own intelligence and no longer functions according to the will of the keystroker..

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Did God know this would happen? Was it part of God's plan?

Please don't miss understand me. I believe God is Almighty. He is the Lord of Lord's and King of Kings. He knows before we are born as to what road we going to walk and what decisions we will make and when we will die.So shouldn't He know before we are born, whether we are going to Heaven or Hell?

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

Did God know this would happen? Was it part of God's plan?

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When creating a hybrid the possibility must have been there or He wouldn't have warned the couple of the consequences of going where unintended. Not part of the plan but a good God would have a backup.

What are the odds of a family pet suddenly becoming self aware? None. It seems the only one capable of achieving such a thing would be a hybrid creature part animal, part god. Until we became self aware God never said we had become gods like them. It showed the original intention failed due to us being made different than the rest of creation with the possibility of self awareness. An experiment? A beta version? gee,what would happen if we put our intelligence into a computer. I dunno. Could go one way or the other. Let's find out.

timothyu said:

When creating a hybrid the possibility must have been there or He wouldn't have warned the couple of the consequences of going where unintended. Not part of the plan but a good God would have a backup.

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It's interesting to hear that God's creation hasn't gone according to plan (although I'd have thought having a backup would be part of the plan).

It seems omniscience (and/or perfect planning) is not an attribute of God.

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

It seems omniscience (and/or perfect planning) is not an attribute of God.

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But is was in the outside world we were cast out into. It still is in balance but we are the disruptors. The Garden seemed to be a place of experimentation, a personal lab where creation was allowed to be it's full self, both sides of the equation.

timothyu said:

But is was in the outside world we were cast out into. It still is in balance but we are the disruptors. The Garden seemed to be a place of experimentation, a personal lab.

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Either God planned for us to be disruptors, or his planning wasn't perfect; and if God was omniscient, he wouldn't need to experiment.

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

Either God planned for us to be disruptors, or his planning wasn't perfect; and if God was omniscient, he wouldn't need to experiment.

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I do believe God I'd omniscient, with that said, what is our purpose if God knows how all is going to end

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

Either God planned for us to be disruptors, or his planning wasn't perfect; and if God was omniscient, he wouldn't need to experiment.

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We were restricted to this plane of existence in order to protect everything else. We also were to learn the consequences of our self serving actions and decide whose will was a better choice to follow, ours or His. But consider that in God's world He may be omniscient, but we were a new thing outside his natural realm. Bases would be covered such as temporary life unlike angels doomed to an eternity of punishment. But is the whole process to create a being better than fallible angels using a mammal as a vessel test tube for it to grow in? Quite possibly. All this is the illusion.

Charmy said:

Please don't miss understand me. I believe God is Almighty.
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So shouldn't He know before we are born, whether we are going to Heaven or Hell?

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IF yes, then why create some to end in hell when HE does not want anyone to perish in hell?

IF no, does HIS not knowing interfere with HIM being GOD Almighty, our Creator and Saviour?

TedT said:

IF yes, then why create some to end in hell when HE does not want anyone to perish in hell?

IF no, does HIS not knowing interfere with HIM being GOD Almighty, our Creator and Saviour?

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I believe that he is all knowing. He knows who will go to Heaven and who will go to Hell.... I just don't understand why we on earth. Why does He not put each soul where it will end. I don't understand why we must go through the shenanigans of being on earth

Charmy said:

I do believe God I'd omniscient, with that said, what is our purpose if God knows how all is going to end

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Well quite... and if God knows exactly will happen to whatever he creates, why bother to create anything at all?

Why would a perfect God want to create creatures (let alone require love and worship from them on pain of eternal suffering) - why would he have any wants, needs, or desires?

Beats me...