Are Women Allowed To Be Pastors?

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atpollard

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All of them.

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. 1 Peter 2:25 (KJV)
“Any verse taken out of context is invariably a pretext.”

(The “Bishop of your souls” is not a Bishop in your local church ... as in: “When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.” [Act 14:23 NASB])

Which local church was Jesus an elder at?
 
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Ancient of Days

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It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).


The answer is real simple: God created men for certain jobs and he created women for certain jobs. End of story, people either accept his word or dont...
 
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Paidiske

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The answer is real simple: God created men for certain jobs and he created women for certain jobs. End of story, people either accept his word or dont...

Except, absolutely nowhere in Scripture does it say that, or anything vaguely resembling that.

And if we did believe that, there would be a whole category of "certain" jobs closed to men. But there isn't.
 
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bekkilyn

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Except, absolutely nowhere in Scripture does it say that, or anything vaguely resembling that.

And if we did believe that, there would be a whole category of "certain" jobs closed to men. But there isn't.

The problem here is that you're arguing sense against people who seem to believe that their word is the same as God's. :)
 
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Paidiske

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Paidiske

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Verse 12 Clara...

Except we know that Paul was not there articulating an absolute, because elsewhere he did allow (and encourage, and praise) women who taught. The prohibition there is about the "usurping," not about rightfully occupying a particular role.
 
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bekkilyn

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By this strange "logic" only animals or maybe bugs or trees are allowed to be pastors, since they were formed first. So far we know that "women" (in spite of all the contradictions to the contrary), men with zero or multiple wives, the apostle Paul, and even Jesus/God himself are all excluded from being pastors, and now we must exclude all men in general since order of creation is a determining factor.
 
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Major1

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[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

And not one of those things preclude Jesus from being a pastor. Jesus said himself that he was a pastor. (John 11:11)

Jesus did not say He was a Pastor.
 
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Major1

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[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

And not one of those things preclude Jesus from being a pastor. Jesus said himself that he was a pastor. (John 11:11)

John 11:11........
"These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep".

As I read the literal words of the Scripture you quoted, I do not see anything about Jesus being a "Pastor of a church".
 
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Major1

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By this strange "logic" only animals or maybe bugs or trees are allowed to be pastors, since they were formed first. So far we know that "women" (in spite of all the contradictions to the contrary), men with zero or multiple wives, the apostle Paul, and even Jesus/God himself are all excluded from being pastors, and now we must exclude all men in general since order of creation is a determining factor.

Your logic is inescapable since when the Word of God is changed or rejected, human logic always follows and all humans are sinners, so........
 
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Major1

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I'm kind of amused at the fact that people are even restricting God himself from being a pastor. I'm also kind of wondering how they plan to enforce it though, or perhaps just ranting at God that he's being rebellious with his so-called knowledge and will be sorry when judgment comes is enough to strike terror into his heart? :)

It can not be enforced as the church has no power to do so nor the stomach to either.

The one thing that I can agree with about the Catholic church is their stance on men being Priests as is recorded in the Scriptures.

You seem to take the postings of the Scriptures as "ranting" at God when in fact, I personally have done nothing but post the actual Words of God as found in the Scriptures.

Because of the fact....."I" for one will be gala and blessed to stand before almighty God on judment day and give an account for all I have said and done in my life.
 
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Major1

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The problem there is you have exactly one verse of Scripture for your belief, with multiple possibilities of interpretation. And based on your interpretation of that one verse, 1 Timothy 2:12, you would disqualify over 50% of the church from reaching their potential before God. That in the face of all of Paul's female coworkers in the New Testament.

Nympha was a house church leader. (Col 4:15) Prisca is another (Romans 16:3-5 and 1 Cor 16:19) Apphia (Philem 1:2) Lydia, probably Chloe as well (1 Cor 1:11) and most likely the elect lady addressee of 2 John (kuria) were all church leaders.

Your argument doesn't stand up.

So you are saying that just ONE (1) Scripture is not to be accepted. How many do you need to say that women should not have the authority over men so as to make it acceptable to you?

1 Corinthians 11:33.........
"Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God."

1 Corinthians 14:34.........
"The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says."

Ephesians 5:22...............
"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord."

1 Timothy 3:2 .................
"Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach".

Colossians 3:18-19........
Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.
 
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Major1

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All of them.

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. 1 Peter 2:25 (KJV)

The same ONE who wrote 1 Peter 2:25 wrote 1 Timothy 3:1-2.

Why do you expound one and reject the other. What is the logic in your quest?

Could it be possible that you have fallen for "Cafeteria Christianity".

Take what you see that you like and reject the things you do not like??????
 
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bekkilyn

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It can not be enforced as the church has no power to do so nor the stomach to either.

The one thing that I can agree with about the Catholic church is their stance on men being Priests as is recorded in the Scriptures.

You seem to take the postings of the Scriptures as "ranting" at God when in fact, I personally have done nothing but post the actual Words of God as found in the Scriptures.

Because of the fact....."I" for one will be gala and blessed to stand before almighty God on judment day and give an account for all I have said and done in my life.

Catholic priests have zero wives, so they aren't qualified to be pastors any more than men with multiple wives, women (in spite of all the contradictions to the contrary), the apostle Paul, and even God/Jesus himself, among others.

I am not mocking. If we are going to agree with the rigid and legalistic way you interpret scripture, then the above is the legitimate conclusion that we MUST make. Otherwise, it's just lukewarm wishy-washiness and double standards.
 
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bekkilyn

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The same ONE who wrote 1 Peter 2:25 wrote 1 Timothy 3:1-2.

Why do you expound one and reject the other. What is the logic in your quest?

Could it be possible that you have fallen for "Cafeteria Christianity".

Take what you see that you like and reject the things you do not like??????

Pot. Kettle. Black.
 
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A.ModerateOne

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It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).

It seems that all ages have its Pharisees and Jesus seems to have spoken and moved on leaving the Pharisees in their denials and unbelief, but protecting his own.

"You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.” (Mark 7:8 RSV)

Matthew Poole has a very interesting comment on Genesis 3:16 about this -

"Thy desire shall be to thy husband; thy desires shall be referred or submitted to thy husband’s will and pleasure to grant or deny them, as he sees fit. Which sense is confirmed from Gen 4:7, where the same phrase is used in the same sense. And this punishment was both very proper for her that committed so great an error, as the eating of the forbidden fruit was, in compliance with her own desire, without asking her husband’s advice or consent, as in all reason she should have done in so weighty and doubtful a matter; and very grievous to her, because women’s affections use to be vehement, and it is irksome to them to have them restrained or denied. Seeing, for want of thy husband’s rule and conduct, thou wast seduced by the serpent, and didst abuse that power I gave thee together with thy husband to draw him to sin, thou shalt now be brought down to a lower degree, for he shall rule thee; not with that sweet and gentle hand which he formerly used, as a guide and counsellor only, but by a higher and harder hand, as a lord and governor, to whom I have now given a greater power and authority over thee than he had before, (which through thy pride and corruption will be far more uneasy unto thee than his former empire was), and who will usurp a further power than I have given him, and will, by my permission, for thy punishment, rule thee many times with rigour, tyranny, and cruelty, which thou wilt groan under, but shalt not be able to deliver thyself from it. See 1Co 14:34; 1Ti 2:11-12; 1Pe 3:6."

A few of the current English translations thankfully are bringing out the true meaning of "desire" in Genesis 3:16.
 
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atpollard

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Matthew Poole has a very interesting comment on Genesis 3:16 about this -
I think Matthew Poole got it as wrong as the female Pastor, both lost sight of Matthew 23:1-12 and what "leadership" really is.
 
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Major1

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It seems that all ages have its Pharisees and Jesus seems to have spoken and moved on leaving the Pharisees in their denials and unbelief, but protecting his own.

"You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.” (Mark 7:8 RSV)

Matthew Poole has a very interesting comment on Genesis 3:16 about this -

"Thy desire shall be to thy husband; thy desires shall be referred or submitted to thy husband’s will and pleasure to grant or deny them, as he sees fit. Which sense is confirmed from Gen 4:7, where the same phrase is used in the same sense. And this punishment was both very proper for her that committed so great an error, as the eating of the forbidden fruit was, in compliance with her own desire, without asking her husband’s advice or consent, as in all reason she should have done in so weighty and doubtful a matter; and very grievous to her, because women’s affections use to be vehement, and it is irksome to them to have them restrained or denied. Seeing, for want of thy husband’s rule and conduct, thou wast seduced by the serpent, and didst abuse that power I gave thee together with thy husband to draw him to sin, thou shalt now be brought down to a lower degree, for he shall rule thee; not with that sweet and gentle hand which he formerly used, as a guide and counsellor only, but by a higher and harder hand, as a lord and governor, to whom I have now given a greater power and authority over thee than he had before, (which through thy pride and corruption will be far more uneasy unto thee than his former empire was), and who will usurp a further power than I have given him, and will, by my permission, for thy punishment, rule thee many times with rigour, tyranny, and cruelty, which thou wilt groan under, but shalt not be able to deliver thyself from it. See 1Co 14:34; 1Ti 2:11-12; 1Pe 3:6."

A few of the current English translations thankfully are bringing out the true meaning of "desire" in Genesis 3:16.

Just in case you do not believe that is the case, and I agree with you and the quote.....just go back and read the comments on this post.

For simply posting what is recorded in the Bible I have become the Godzilla of the day.
 
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