The New Covenant

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Guojing

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I don't know, because he didn't give his opinion about it. I can assume that's what he believes since that's what the majority of Christians believe, including theologians and Bible scholars. Obviously that's what the translators of all the most used best known English translations of the Bible believed.

The New Covenant

As demonstrated by others in this forum, people tend to assume that if you don't believe the Body of Christ is under the NC, then you must believe she is under the OC.

You also claimed that it was a legitimate question here The New Covenant.
 
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Ceallaigh

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The New Covenant

As demonstrated by others in this forum, people tend to assume that if you don't believe the Body of Christ is under the NC, then you must believe she is under the OC.

You also claimed that it was a legitimate question here The New Covenant.

Others in this forum, tended to assume that if you yourself and keras don't believe the Body of Christ is under the NC, then you yourself and keras must believe she is under the OC.

That's probably compounded by the fact that false teacher cult leader HW Armstrong, who taught we are not under the NC, believed we are still under the OC.

Other than Armstrong, keras and yourself, I don't know of anyone who believes the Body of Christ isn't under the NC.

You've both been asked to name a source (outside of yourselves and this forum) who believes this, and you've both have failed to answer the question. You both seem to be avoiding giving an honest straightforward answer to that.
 
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keras

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Church teaching is that we are now in the New Covenant.

This belief mainly comes from Luke 22:20 In the same way, He took the cup and said: This cup, poured out for you, is the new Covenant, sealed by My Blood.

But Luke 22:20 is a later addition to scripture and is not found in the early manuscripts. It is deleted by the Revised English Bible and others.


Can we Christians today really say we experience all the results of the New Covenant, as listed in Hebrews 8:10-12?

1/ I shall set My Laws in their hearts.

2/ I shall be their God and they will be My people.

3/ They will not teach each other, for all will know the Lord.

4/ I shall pardon their sins and remember their wickedness no more.


Not one of these things are fully in effect now, or have been since Jesus was on earth. They are all yet to happen in the future.

The Old Covenant was made between the Lord and the Israelite peoples.

Exodus 24:3-8, where all the Israelites heard the Laws in the Book of the Covenant and promised to obey them. It will be the same again, in the end times, when all of the Lord’s faithful people will be living in the holy Land.

Proved by how it is only then that the sins of the people will be forgiven. Isaiah 33:24


The big sticking point with this scenario for most is all the Christians going to live in the holy Land. They have been taught that the Jews remain there while they avoid the Lord’s wrath by being raptured to heaven, plus the idea of migrating to the Middle East is totally unheard of and isn’t at all desirable as it is now.

Many prophesies say how the Lord will regenerate the Land and it will become like the garden of Eden. Ezekiel 36:8, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 33:12-13


We Christians are the Lord’s witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16 We have His Commission to proclaim the Gospel until Jesus comes again. Matthew 28:19-20


Many prophesies tell us that the current Jewish State of Israel will be gone after the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath. Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:1-18, and only a remnant will remain. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

They will be joined by their Christian brethren, Jeremiah 50:4-6: His lost sheep, Ezekiel 34:11-16, all the vast multitude in Jerusalem seen by John. Revelation 7:9

There: Jesus will make the New Covenant with us, for our peace and prosperity. He will demonstrate His power to protect us: by the destruction of the Gog/Magog army.


That the Lord’s holy people are present in the holy Land before Jesus Returns, is proved by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7, when the ‘beast’ conquers them. Zechariah 14:1-2 However, some of the Christians will violate the New Covenant and agree to a peace treaty with the leader of the World Govt, Isaiah 28:11-12, as described in Daniel 11:32, which will commence the Great Tribulation for the final 3½ years before Jesus Returns.
 
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Guojing

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Others in this forum, tended to assume that if you yourself and keras don't believe the Body of Christ is under the NC, then you yourself and keras must believe she is under the OC.

That's probably compounded by the fact that false teacher cult leader HW Armstrong, who taught we are not under the NC, believed we are still under the OC.

Other than Armstrong, keras and yourself, I don't know of anyone who believes the Body of Christ isn't under the NC.

You've both been asked to name a source (outside of yourselves and this forum) who believes this, and you've both have failed to answer the question. You both seem to be avoiding giving an honest straightforward answer to that.

You do understand what the fallacy of false dilemma is, correct?

If you have engaged in discussions with jgr, he always does this, asking you to name a credible source that shares the same view.

And whatever source you name, he will reject that as non-credible.

Some of us prefer to let scripture be our source instead of playing this "appeal to authority" game. I have presented scripture for many of my points. If you want to interpret them in your own way, that is up to you.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Church teaching is that we are now in the New Covenant.

This belief mainly comes from Luke 22:20 In the same way, He took the cup and said: This cup, poured out for you, is the new Covenant, sealed by My Blood.

But Luke 22:20 is a later addition to scripture and is not found in the early manuscripts. It is deleted by the Revised English Bible and others.

What others?
 
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jgr

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You do understand what the fallacy of false dilemma is, correct?

If you have engaged in discussions with jgr, he always does this, asking you to name a credible source that shares the same view.

And whatever source you name, he will reject that as non-credible.

Some of us prefer to let scripture be our source instead of playing this "appeal to authority" game. I have presented scripture for many of my points. If you want to interpret them in your own way, that is up to you.

If you cannot cite support from historical Christian orthodoxy, which is an entirely reasonable benchmark, then cultism is an entirely reasonable conclusion.

Because the cults refuse the benchmark of historical Christian orthodoxy.

That is a primary reason why they're identified as cults.

And there is not one name in historical Christian orthodoxy who denies that the Christian Church is under the New Covenant.
 
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Ceallaigh

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You do understand what the fallacy of false dilemma is, correct?

If you have engaged in discussions with jgr, he always does this, asking you to name a credible source that shares the same view.

And whatever source you name, he will reject that as non-credible.

Some of us prefer to let scripture be our source instead. I have presented scripture for many of my points. If you want to interpret them in your own way, that is up to you.

I'm also asking the same question, and it seems you are avoiding answering it because the answer is, "there are none".
 
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keras

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You've both been asked to name a source (outside of yourselves and this forum) who believes this, and you've both have failed to answer the question. You both seem to be avoiding giving an honest straightforward answer to that.
I did reply in #12 There are no other people who I can find who agree with me. That in no way means they are all correct and the scriptures I have presented are wrong.
What others?
The Wickliffe Bible translators know Luke 22:20 is added to scripture and either leave it out or put it in parenthesis.
 
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Ceallaigh

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If you cannot cite support from historical Christian orthodoxy, which is an entirely reasonable benchmark, then cultism is an entirely reasonable conclusion.

Because the cults refuse the benchmark of historical Christian orthodoxy.

That is a primary reason why they're identified as cults.

And there is not one name in historical Christian orthodoxy which denies that the Christian Church is under the New Covenant.

Add to that, that an established cult. Established as a cult by its own top members no less. Is the best known source for teaching that we are not currently under the New Covenant.
 
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Guojing

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I'm also asking the same question, and it seems you are avoiding answering it because the answer is, "there are none".

I believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

That is why I don’t play the appeal to authority game with you, or anyone else
 
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jgr

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I believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

That is why I don’t play the appeal to authority game with you

What do you think every historical defender of the true faith believed about the sufficiency of Scripture?
 
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Ceallaigh

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I did reply in #12 There are no other people who I can find who agree with me. That in no way means they are all correct and the scriptures I have presented are wrong.

That everyone else is wrong and you are the only one who is right, would be a completely illogical conclusion. The fact that you stand completely alone means there's a 99.9% probability that you are wrong.

I think "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" threads, should be against the rules as they usually descend into other rule breaking such as flaming and goading. As a matter of fact such threads start out as what is essentially goading.

This has been a fun rabbit hole exercise in futility, but I have spent more than enough time on it.
 
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jgr

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I think "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" threads, should be against the rules as they usually descend into other rule breaking such as flaming and goading. As a matter of fact such threads start out as what is essentially goading.

An excellent suggestion. Please forward to the administrators, and I'll do the same.
 
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Ceallaigh

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I believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

That is why I don’t play the appeal to authority game with you, or anyone else

In other words you come up with subjective eisegesic interpolations, that virtually no one agrees with. What a great way to start futile arguments.
 
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Guojing

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In other words you come up with subjective eisegesic interpolations, that virtually no one agrees with.

Well if you have a different interpretation of those passages I have used, why don’t you share yours and all of us can learn together?
 
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