The New Covenant

jgr · Jan 23, 2021

Guojing said:
Generally, many Christians like the entire Bible to be written "to them" and "about them".

They find it difficult to accept that only Romans to Philemon is to them and about them.

For example, there are no healing promises in those books, so when they look at how Jesus went about the nation Israel and healing all who were oppressed by the devil (Acts 10:38), they start claiming those healing promises in the 4 Gospels, for them too.

Another example, when they read about how God promised to protect Israel during the Tribulation in that beautiful Psalms 91, they find it difficult to rightly divide the word and instead, start to claim those promises that God made to the nation Israel, to them too.

The above 2 examples are what I see happening in the Word of Faith churches all the time.

So, in this case, when they come across such a beautiful promise in Hebrews 8:8 onwards about a new covenant, even though it specifically stated the House of Israel and the House of Judah, the flesh in them naturally want to claim it for themselves too.

Since you reject the New Covenant, do you believe that you're still living under the Old Covenant?

keras · Jan 23, 2021

MMXX said:
So what's the bottom line according to you? Are we still under the Old Covenant and its laws, such as dietary laws etc?

We are not in any Covenant. The Old is redundant and the new is not yet. As for food, Peter was told not to profane what God calls clean.
Acts 10:9-16
What we, as Christians are under; is the Commandments of Jesus:
The Ten Commandments expanded by Jesus:
Exodus 20:3-17:

1/ You shall have no other gods before Me.
It is written: You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only you shall serve.
Luke 4:8, Matthew 4:10, Rev. 14:7

2/ You must not make for yourself a carved image, a likeness of anything in heaven, on earth, or under the sea.
God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24, Acts 15:20, 1 Cor. 6:9, Ephesians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14

3/ You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
I say to you: do not swear at all…let your yes be yes and your no be no, for whatever is more than these is from the evil one. Matthew 5:34-37, 1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7

4/ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
The Sabbath [seventh day] was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, so the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath. Mark 2:27-28
For Christians that seventh day is Sunday, as the first day of our week is Monday. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2

5/ Honor your father and mother.
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
Ephesians 6:1, Colossians 3:20

6/ You shall not murder.
I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.
Matthew 5:44-45, Matt. 5:21-26, Romans 13:9, 1 Tim. 1:9, 1 John 3:15

7/ You shall not commit adultery.
I say to you whoever even looks at another in lust has already committed adultery in their heart.
Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4

8/ You shall not steal.
Neither thieves, the greedy, or drunkards and robbers will inherit the Kingdom.
1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28

9/ You shall not bear false witness.
For by your words, you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Colossians3:9

10/ You shall not covet your neighbors possessions.
Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist of the things he possesses.
Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Tim. 6:10, Hebrews 13:5

Further New Testament scriptures:
John 1:17 The Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Luke 16:16a The Law and the prophets were until John the Baptizer, now the good news of the Kingdom is preached...

Matthew 5:17 I have come not to abolish the Law, but to complete it.

Romans 6:15 Can we sin then because we are not under the Law? God forbid!

Galatians 5:14 The whole Law is fulfilled in this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Are the Ten Commandments still in effect? In principal they still are. Those Ten Commandments are restated and expanded by Jesus, we must obey them and do God’s will for us today.
Matthew 5:20, 1 Peter 2:16

keras · Jan 23, 2021

jgr said:
Since you reject the New Covenant, do you believe that you're still living under the Old Covenant?

You know, jgr- when you stop making snide remarks and actually get what I am saying, then we could converse.
Until then, you just waste forum space.

jgr · Jan 23, 2021

keras said:
You know, jgr- when you stop making snide remarks and actually get what I am saying, then we could converse.
Until then, you just waste forum space.

The question was directed to Guojing.

But I'm interested to hear your answer as well.

Ceallaigh · Jan 23, 2021

keras said:
We are not in any Covenant. The Old is redundant and the new is not yet. As for food, Peter was told not to profane what God calls clean.
Acts 10:9-16

That had to do with the inclusion of gentiles (which is what chapter 9 is about) not dietary laws.

Guojing · Jan 23, 2021

keras said:
Good that you are able to see that the New Covenant cannot be operational now.

But Hebrews 8:8, which is a word for word copy of Jeremiah 31:31-34, does not now and is impossible to apply to the Houses of Judah and Israel, or it would be a contradiction of all the New Testament teachings of how we Christians are the Israelites of God.
And as it was when the Mosaic Covenant was made, the new one will be made between the Lord and His faithful Christian peoples as a corporate, entire nation in the holy Land.

Yep, as I said before here, we came to the same conclusion, but from different premises.

That is why I laughed when someone here claimed I am trying to be your follower.

Guojing · Jan 23, 2021

jgr said:
Since you reject the New Covenant, do you believe that you're still living under the Old Covenant?

I already stated in this thread that is the fallacy of false dilemma.

The New Covenant

The Old covenant was made with the nation Israel only (Exodus 24, Ephesians 2:11-12).

Likewise, the New Covenant will be made with the nation Israel only.

We are a new creation, we are saved thru the Body of Christ. (Ephesians 2:16)

jgr · Jan 23, 2021

Guojing said:
I already stated in this thread that is the fallacy of false dilemma.

The New Covenant

The Old covenant was made with the nation Israel only (Exodus 24, Ephesians 2:11-12).

Likewise, the New Covenant will be made with the nation Israel only.

We are a new creation, we are saved thru the Body of Christ. (Ephesians 2:16)

Is the nation of Israel today under the old covenant?

jgr · Jan 23, 2021

Guojing said:
Likewise, the New Covenant will be made with the nation Israel only.

I'm fairly certain that keras doesn't believe that.

He does understand who God's Chosen People are.

Guojing · Jan 23, 2021

jgr said:
Is the nation of Israel today under the old covenant?

They are like any other gentile nation now, an enemy to God (Romans 11:28)

Ceallaigh · Jan 23, 2021

keras said:
You know, jgr- when you stop making snide remarks and actually get what I am saying, then we could converse.
Until then, you just waste forum space.

He asked a legitimate question. If it displayed not actually getting what you're saying, then you should elaborate in a non-obfusticating way.

Guojing · Jan 24, 2021

keras said:
Another violation of this forum rules. I am a born again Christian.

You left out one little word;
Because we will live in a NC relationship......

Your avoidance of these prophesies shows your bias and ingrained errors.
Ezekiel 34:25 I shall make a Covenant with them for their peace and prosperity....

Isaiah 61:8..... I will grant them a sure reward and make an everlasting Covenant with them.

Isaiah 59:20-21 The Lord will come as a Redeemer to Zion and to those descended from Jacob who repent of their rebellion. This is the Covenant I will make with them: My Spirit will abide with them thru all the following generations.

Jeremiah 32:37-40 I shall gather My people from all the lands where they now live......I will make an everlasting Covenant with them, it will be a joy for Me to do them good.

Ezekiel 37:26 [After the Spiritual regeneration and the rejoining of the tribes] I shall make an everlasting Covenant with them, for their peace and prosperity and their numbers will greatly increase. I will put My Sanctuary in their midst, where it will remain for all time.

That is where the popular teaching that "The Body of Christ is spiritual Israel" comes to play, to allow them to conclude that the New Covenant is made with us.

jgr · Jan 24, 2021

Guojing said:
That is where the popular teaching that "The Body of Christ is spiritual Israel" comes to play, to allow them to conclude that the New Covenant is made with us.

So provide a quote, source, and date of any recognized defender of the true faith who claims that the New Covenant is made with us because the Body of Christ is spiritual Israel.

Guojing · Jan 24, 2021

jgr said:
So provide a quote, source, and date of any recognized defender of the true faith who claims that the New Covenant is made with us because the Body of Christ is spiritual Israel.

The New Covenant

Ceallaigh · Jan 24, 2021

Guojing said:
He thinks that if you don't think we are under the New Covenant, it must imply you believe you are under the Old Covenant.

He doesn't understand what the Body of Christ means.

Do you mean HW Armstrong or Brad Jersak? Because Jersak said Armstrong was the one who thought we were still under the Old Covenant and ran his cult accordingly.

Guojing · Jan 24, 2021

MMXX said:
Do you mean HW Armstrong or Brad Jersak? Because Jersak said Armstrong was the one who thought we were still under the Old Covenant and ran his cult accordingly.

I mean the preacher in the video that you shared.

Ceallaigh · Jan 24, 2021

Guojing said:
I mean the preacher in the video that you shared.

He was stating what Armstrong believed, not what he himself believes.

But he did make it clear he thought Armstrong's teaching on the subject was crazy stuff. As have most Christians, including Armstrong's top followers after they examined it thoroughly.

Guojing · Jan 24, 2021

MMXX said:
He was stating what Armstrong believed, not what he himself believes.

But he did make it clear he thought Armstrong's teaching on the subject was crazy stuff. As have most Christians, including Armstrong's top followers after they examined it thoroughly.

But he believed that the New Covenant is currently established with us, correct?

jgr · Jan 24, 2021

Guojing said:
The New Covenant

Try again.

Ceallaigh · Jan 24, 2021

Guojing said:
But he believed that the New Covenant is currently established with us, correct?

I don't know, because he didn't give his opinion about it. I can assume that's what he believes since that's what the majority of Christians believe, including theologians and Bible scholars. Obviously that's what the translators of the most used best known English translations of the Bible believed.

So far the only person with any credentials and notoriety I know of who didn't believe it, was established as a false teacher cult leader, even by his top followers.

The New Covenant

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