Who are the Overcomers?

Jesus is YHWH · Jan 21, 2021

fhansen said:
Jesus conquered sin and death so we no longer have to sin and die.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." 1 John 1:7

Agreed but it still exists as does satan in this world which was my point.

Jesus is YHWH · Jan 21, 2021

Agallagher said:
No further questions will be answered after this post. The Lord Jesus Christ defeated Satan, Death, Hell, and Sin. Do I sin? Yes when I fail to love God, and when I fail to love others. 1 John 1:8 If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth.

Romans 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. May the grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

If this has not happened yet for you in your life, then I have no idea what to tell you. (In my view of all scripture completed) Satan has been crushed for all people. Now it is up to them whether or not they desire to place trust in God, or remain and unbeliever.

From Ephesians 6:
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. We see that people wrestle against the World, and spiritual wickedness in high places.

We wrestle against the world, and spiritual wickedness in high places but it doesn't mention satan or the devil here in this verse. Maybe the spiritual wickedness of because of people misusing or being crafty with the word of God.

2 Corinthians 4:2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Yes I am absolutely going to die in this world, one day. The hour is unknown and so is the day, only the Father in heaven does.

God bless, hope this helps once again, no more questions will be answered.

Just as sin and death exist in this world so to does satan who prowls around like a roaring lion seeking to devour, he is the god of this present world as per 2 Corinthians 4:4 and the prince of the power of the air as per Ephesians 2 and the devils schemes in Ephesians 6 hence we need the FULL ARMOR of God.

No questions asked just FACTS stated above.

hope this helps !!!

mlepfitjw · Jan 21, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
Just as sin and death exist in this world so to does satan who prowls around like a roaring lion seeking to devour. he is the god od this present world as per 2 Corinthians 4:4 and the prince of the power of the air as per Ephesians 2 and the devils schemes in Ephesians 6 hence we need the FULL ARMOR of God.

No questions asked just FACTS stated above.

hope this helps !!!

And you have a right to your belief system you choose to believe. God bless you and your family, may the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, and grace be upon you amen.

Dave L · Jan 21, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I am indebted to the late Watchman Nee for my understanding. If anyone is interested, "The Glorious Church" is compelling reading on this subject. I can give only a slight outline as space and attention spans, is limited.

To be clear, I am speaking of those who overcome Satan as described in Revelation 12. There are those who overcome the world, which is by faith (1 John 5:4 & 5). There are other senses in which "overcome" is used of Christians, for example, overcoming evil with good. My argument applies only to those who overcome Satan.
Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who accuses them day and night before our God. They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."

1. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. It is obvious from some of the posts that many believers live under a cloud of guilt. This is sad for them and loss for the Kingdom of God. Guilt leaves the Christian weak spiritually and ineffective in spiritual warfare. Those who know the cleansing power of the precious blood confess their sin and get on with life. There is zero value in weeping or self tormenting over sin. God convicts us so that we can confess and get back on track.
2. The word of our testimony. We know that Satan is the liar and deceiver. He makes great claims about his power and is control over world events. If we know the word, we know that his boasting is empty. He is like a robber trying to hold up a bank with an imitation gun. If you know that it is imitation, you will refuse the robber's demands.

What we should be doing is declaring the victory, overcoming, power, majesty, glory and Lordship of Lord Jesus. After all, that is the truth and that is according to God's will and purpose. Romans 10:9 tells us that we should confess that Jesus is Lord verbally. Yes, we need to speak it out. How often? Daily at the very least. We should also remind Satan that he is defeated. Also that he brought about his own downfall because he crucified the innocent Man.
3. Not loving our lives to the point of death. Physical death is the lot of some Christians. However, there is another aspect of death that overcomers embrace. It is dying to self as they carry the cross daily. Few Christians understand what this means in reality. Carrying the cross is not trying to put up with your mother in law. It is denying the demands of independent self, even when they seem to be legitimate. It is putting God's will ahead of self will, even in seemingly trivial matters.

There is much more to say about the overcomers that I'll cover in another post. There has always been a need for overcomers to step up. Never more so than right now.

“For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.” Acts 15:28–29 (KJV 1900)

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

I.e., Live naturally in the Holy Spirit and don't get tied up with dead works of the flesh.

Aussie Pete · Jan 21, 2021

Dave L said:
“For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.” Acts 15:28–29 (KJV 1900)

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

I.e., Live naturally in the Holy Spirit and don't get tied up with dead works of the flesh.

I will be adding to the post as soon as I can find time. I don't disagree with you, but that is not what an overcomer is. It's the normal life that the Christian should be living. Regrettably, "normal" is far from normal for many who call themselves Christian.

Aussie Pete · Jan 21, 2021

grafted branch said:
Hi Aussie Pete,

Did Watchman Nee address the beast that overcomes<3528> the saints in Revelation 13:7?

In Revelation 12:3 John see a dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns. In verse 11 they overcome<3528> the dragon by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. In Revelation 13:2 the dragon gives his power, seat, and authority to the beast. If the dragon can be overcome, then no matter what type of power, seat, or authority he has given to the beast in Revelation 13:2, this beast can also be overcome the same way.

It doesn’t seem likely to me that the saints can overcome<3528> the dragon/beast while simultaneously the dragon/beast overcomes<3528> the saints.

What are your thoughts on this?

OK, a sneak preview of my next instalment.....

In very brief, the overcomers will be raptured before the tribulation. Many Christians are like the supporters of "Team Jesus". They will sit on the sidelines and clap and cheer, but they are fundamentally spectators. No one gives prizes to spectators. "Team Jesus" is actively at war with Satan and enforces the victory of Christ on Satan. He is cast down to the earth and he is mad. I believe the "restraining force" is the overcomers. The overcomers will be taken up and Satan will be free, using the Beast as his agent so to speak, to bring in world wide tribulation. Since the overcomers no longer are taking Satan on, he has a free hand, at least to start with. God's intent is that the shallow, lukewarm and half hearted be encouraged to turn to Him and become totally committed - by necessity if not by inherent desire.

Many Christians think that all they have to do is go to church, keep their noses clean (or at least don't get caught) and wait out this life until the next life is due. It's not kingdom living and God wants us all to enjoy the blessings of His Kingdom. There is nothing like persecution to bring people to their senses and their knees.

fhansen · Jan 21, 2021

Jesusthekingofking said:
sounds like law to me, how to you explain that? I thought we fulfilled the law because Jesus fulfilled it.

Yes, we can finally fulfill the law, too, because Jesus fulfilled it. Jesus' burden for us is light, not non-existent. He wants us holy, darn it!

He wants the best for us and He certainly never created us to be sinners. So justice is being restored to God's wayward creation with the New Covenant, not merely ignored. Even though the law cannot possibly justify us we can still understand this verse just as it reads:
"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13

And this is how its fulfilled:
"...love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom 13:10

Think about it, the Greatest Commandments, the law of love, are the only laws that cannot be fulfilled legalistically or hypocritically- externally, in form only. Because unlike the the other commandments love cannot be faked, or observed legalistically, because then it wouldn't be love at all. Love, agape, can only be a matter of grace, not obtainable by being under the law. That's the difference. Even going back to Eden had Adam loved God the story would've been over before it began; obedience would've flow of its own accord. As it was Adam didn't really even know God yet, let alone appreciate Him, let alone recognize his need for Him, let alone adore and worship Him in sprit and truth-or love Him with his whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. Here's a beautiful quote from Basil of Caesarea, a 4th century bishop:

"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children."

Love is the primary name of the justice or righteousness which God justifies us with. It opposes and excludes sin by its nature:

"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

grafted branch · Jan 21, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
In very brief, the overcomers will be raptured before the tribulation.

Aussie Pete said:
God's intent is that the shallow, lukewarm and half hearted be encouraged to turn to Him and become totally committed - by necessity if not by inherent desire.

So if there aren’t any believers left after the rapture then would you agree that people at that time will have to overcome the beast to become saints and once they are saints the beast will then overcome them?

Dave L · Jan 22, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I will be adding to the post as soon as I can find time. I don't disagree with you, but that is not what an overcomer is. It's the normal life that the Christian should be living. Regrettably, "normal" is far from normal for many who call themselves Christian.

Love is what overcomes. Everything motivated by anything else is dead works. People hype on dead works thinking it is taking the cross. But as Paul says, it merits nothing.

Danthemailman · Jan 22, 2021

1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Aussie Pete · Jan 22, 2021

Danthemailman said:
1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

I wish people would read what I said. I'm not talking about overcoming the world or any other aspect except Satan. I will produce another post to enlarge on the subject.

Aussie Pete · Jan 22, 2021

grafted branch said:
So if there aren’t any believers left after the rapture then would you agree that people at that time will have to overcome the beast to become saints and once they are saints the beast will then overcome them?

Not quite. There are many who are believers but not disciples. In the Western world, they are like the Christians of Laodicea very often. Many are way too interested in getting rich, being healed, being left to do as they please but happy to go to heaven when they die. Those people, I believe, like the "foolish virgins", will be left behind. They then have an opportunity to repent, get real with God and become disciples. And yes, they will suffer at the hands of the beast, but only for a season - the days are shortened for the sake of the elect.

grafted branch · Jan 22, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
And yes, they will suffer at the hands of the beast, but only for a season - the days are shortened for the sake of the elect.

Ok, if the 42 month period that the beast overcomes the saints is shortened (by way of Matthew 24:22), then the full 70 weeks that are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 will not be fulfilled. Correct?

SANTOSO · Jan 22, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I am indebted to the late Watchman Nee for my understanding. If anyone is interested, "The Glorious Church" is compelling reading on this subject. I can give only a slight outline as space and attention spans, is limited.

To be clear, I am speaking of those who overcome Satan as described in Revelation 12. There are those who overcome the world, which is by faith (1 John 5:4 & 5). There are other senses in which "overcome" is used of Christians, for example, overcoming evil with good. My argument applies only to those who overcome Satan.
Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who accuses them day and night before our God. They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."

1. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. It is obvious from some of the posts that many believers live under a cloud of guilt. This is sad for them and loss for the Kingdom of God. Guilt leaves the Christian weak spiritually and ineffective in spiritual warfare. Those who know the cleansing power of the precious blood confess their sin and get on with life. There is zero value in weeping or self tormenting over sin. God convicts us so that we can confess and get back on track.
2. The word of our testimony. We know that Satan is the liar and deceiver. He makes great claims about his power and is control over world events. If we know the word, we know that his boasting is empty. He is like a robber trying to hold up a bank with an imitation gun. If you know that it is imitation, you will refuse the robber's demands.

What we should be doing is declaring the victory, overcoming, power, majesty, glory and Lordship of Lord Jesus. After all, that is the truth and that is according to God's will and purpose. Romans 10:9 tells us that we should confess that Jesus is Lord verbally. Yes, we need to speak it out. How often? Daily at the very least. We should also remind Satan that he is defeated. Also that he brought about his own downfall because he crucified the innocent Man.
3. Not loving our lives to the point of death. Physical death is the lot of some Christians. However, there is another aspect of death that overcomers embrace. It is dying to self as they carry the cross daily. Few Christians understand what this means in reality. Carrying the cross is not trying to put up with your mother in law. It is denying the demands of independent self, even when they seem to be legitimate. It is putting God's will ahead of self will, even in seemingly trivial matters.

There is much more to say about the overcomers that I'll cover in another post. There has always been a need for overcomers to step up. Never more so than right now.

Yes, dear Pete, we should declare the Lord’s victory day by day.
It is actually written in the Complete Jewish Bible translation:

Sing to ADONAI, bless his name! Proclaim His victory day after day!- Psalm 96:2 CJB

There is another favorite verse of mine that I like to declare based on Deuteronomy 20:4:

for the LORD my God is He who goes with me to fight for me against my enemies, to give me the victory.

Actually, we can make a litany of victory based on many truth that we find in His words.

When we submit ourselves to God’s truth, we keeping letting ourselves be transformed by renewing of our minds so that we will know what God wants and will agree what He wants is good, satisfying and able to succeed.

good call, Pete ! Sure, we can make a litany of victory to step up ourselves as overcomer in Christ Jesus.

SANTOSO · Jan 22, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I am indebted to the late Watchman Nee for my understanding. If anyone is interested, "The Glorious Church" is compelling reading on this subject. I can give only a slight outline as space and attention spans, is limited.

To be clear, I am speaking of those who overcome Satan as described in Revelation 12. There are those who overcome the world, which is by faith (1 John 5:4 & 5). There are other senses in which "overcome" is used of Christians, for example, overcoming evil with good. My argument applies only to those who overcome Satan.
Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who accuses them day and night before our God. They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."

1. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. It is obvious from some of the posts that many believers live under a cloud of guilt. This is sad for them and loss for the Kingdom of God. Guilt leaves the Christian weak spiritually and ineffective in spiritual warfare. Those who know the cleansing power of the precious blood confess their sin and get on with life. There is zero value in weeping or self tormenting over sin. God convicts us so that we can confess and get back on track.
2. The word of our testimony. We know that Satan is the liar and deceiver. He makes great claims about his power and is control over world events. If we know the word, we know that his boasting is empty. He is like a robber trying to hold up a bank with an imitation gun. If you know that it is imitation, you will refuse the robber's demands.

What we should be doing is declaring the victory, overcoming, power, majesty, glory and Lordship of Lord Jesus. After all, that is the truth and that is according to God's will and purpose. Romans 10:9 tells us that we should confess that Jesus is Lord verbally. Yes, we need to speak it out. How often? Daily at the very least. We should also remind Satan that he is defeated. Also that he brought about his own downfall because he crucified the innocent Man.
3. Not loving our lives to the point of death. Physical death is the lot of some Christians. However, there is another aspect of death that overcomers embrace. It is dying to self as they carry the cross daily. Few Christians understand what this means in reality. Carrying the cross is not trying to put up with your mother in law. It is denying the demands of independent self, even when they seem to be legitimate. It is putting God's will ahead of self will, even in seemingly trivial matters.

There is much more to say about the overcomers that I'll cover in another post. There has always been a need for overcomers to step up. Never more so than right now.

Dear Pete,
When you said this : “He is like a robber trying to hold up a bank with an imitation gun. If you know that it is imitation, you will refuse the robber's demands.”

I am quite concerned. For this is what we have heard what the angel said to apostle John :

And the angel said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. -Revelation 17:15
And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, -Revelation 17:16
for God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. -Revelation 17:17

I hope the Lord give your discretion to watch over you and discernment to guard you.

Aussie Pete · Jan 22, 2021

grafted branch said:
Ok, if the 42 month period that the beast overcomes the saints is shortened (by way of Matthew 24:22), then the full 70 weeks that are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 will not be fulfilled. Correct?

I'm not an expert on this subject. No one else is either. I've read the books and studied and decided that no one really knows, including me. To me, most of it is speculation and irrelevant.

SANTOSO said:
Dear Pete,
When you said this : “He is like a robber trying to hold up a bank with an imitation gun. If you know that it is imitation, you will refuse the robber's demands.”

I am quite concerned. For this is what we have heard what the angel said to apostle John :

And the angel said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. -Revelation 17:15
And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, -Revelation 17:16
for God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. -Revelation 17:17

I hope the Lord give your discretion to watch over you and discernment to guard you.

He does. I stand on God's word and the mighty victory already won by Lord Jesus. The defeated are those who do not know their victory in Christ. I have the armour of God. I have the sword of the Spirit. I don't need protection from Satan, he needs protection from me. I died and my life is hidden in Christ, with God. To get to me, Satan has to get through Jesus, unless I open the door through disobedience, doubt and unbelief. I've done that from time to time and it's no fun at all. Lord Jesus always gets me back on track. I know God. Daniel 11:32 applies.

Jaxxi · Jan 22, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I am indebted to the late Watchman Nee for my understanding. If anyone is interested, "The Glorious Church" is compelling reading on this subject. I can give only a slight outline as space and attention spans, is limited.

To be clear, I am speaking of those who overcome Satan as described in Revelation 12. There are those who overcome the world, which is by faith (1 John 5:4 & 5). There are other senses in which "overcome" is used of Christians, for example, overcoming evil with good. My argument applies only to those who overcome Satan.
Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who accuses them day and night before our God. They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."

1. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. It is obvious from some of the posts that many believers live under a cloud of guilt. This is sad for them and loss for the Kingdom of God. Guilt leaves the Christian weak spiritually and ineffective in spiritual warfare. Those who know the cleansing power of the precious blood confess their sin and get on with life. There is zero value in weeping or self tormenting over sin. God convicts us so that we can confess and get back on track.
2. The word of our testimony. We know that Satan is the liar and deceiver. He makes great claims about his power and is control over world events. If we know the word, we know that his boasting is empty. He is like a robber trying to hold up a bank with an imitation gun. If you know that it is imitation, you will refuse the robber's demands.

What we should be doing is declaring the victory, overcoming, power, majesty, glory and Lordship of Lord Jesus. After all, that is the truth and that is according to God's will and purpose. Romans 10:9 tells us that we should confess that Jesus is Lord verbally. Yes, we need to speak it out. How often? Daily at the very least. We should also remind Satan that he is defeated. Also that he brought about his own downfall because he crucified the innocent Man.
3. Not loving our lives to the point of death. Physical death is the lot of some Christians. However, there is another aspect of death that overcomers embrace. It is dying to self as they carry the cross daily. Few Christians understand what this means in reality. Carrying the cross is not trying to put up with your mother in law. It is denying the demands of independent self, even when they seem to be legitimate. It is putting God's will ahead of self will, even in seemingly trivial matters.

There is much more to say about the overcomers that I'll cover in another post. There has always been a need for overcomers to step up. Never more so than right now.

The overcomers are the ones who survive and endure the Great Tribulation no? The ones who are held for 10 days and tortured and then beheaded refusing to bow before the antichrist?

Aussie Pete · Jan 22, 2021

Jaxxi said:
The overcomers are the ones who survive and endure the Great Tribulation no? The ones who are held for 10 days and tortured and then beheaded refusing to bow before the antichrist?

I am referring specifically to one category of overcomer. When time permits, I'll expand on my post. Hopefully things will become a little clearer.

SANTOSO · Jan 22, 2021

Dear ones，I believe we should consider Mary Magdalene as one of those who overcome Satan. Why?

This is what we have heard:
and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, -Luke 8:2

And she received the testimony of our Lord :
Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven'for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little." -Luke 7:47

Let us learn from her humble attitude and love for the Lord so that we may grace and testimony of our Lord that we haved loved Him much.

Jaxxi · Jan 23, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I am referring specifically to one category of overcomer. When time permits, I'll expand on my post. Hopefully things will become a little clearer.

Ok so the overcomers are the ones who are watching and waiting for the rapture? The ones who have prepared their robes and rejected the world and live solely for Christ?

Who are the Overcomers?

my Lord and my God !

my Lord and my God !

May you be blessed!

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