Does turning my lights on violate the sabbath?

LoveGodsWord · Jan 21, 2021

imge said:
Well, since you are preaching on a public forum about Sabbath keepers not keeping Sabbath when you admit you don't even try to keep it yourself, you made it between you and all the posters here.

It seems you goal here is to persuade people to not keep the Sabbath because you can not keep it and are trying to grasp at something so far in the weeds that is not Biblical as your reasoning.

I am sorry friend, unless you keep the Sabbath yourself I really think its inappropriate to tell others how they should try to keep it. It really has the appearance of trying to get others to break Gods 4th commandment under the guise you can't keep it. God would not ask for something we can not do.

There is even a warning about trying to persuade people about breakings the commandments of God.

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Agreed! WINNER! Good post. Thanks for sharing.

DamianWarS · Jan 21, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Where exactly is this alleged verse pertaining to buying & selling?

Nehemiah 10:31 (but also the 4th commandment proper) These are verses that help us establish a context of permissible activities on the Sabbath and where it does not explicitly say do not buy and sell on the Sabbath it would be irresponsible not to infer this. These also are not my interpretations but widely agreeable with those you endorse keeping the letter of the law. If you think it is permissible to buy/sell on the Sabbath then this point is not for you but I am refering to the letter of the law and your disagreement then is with the letter of the law not me. Bringing up this implictly agrees with me regarding electricity, at least in logic, that if it is not permissible to buy and sell on the Sabbath then that extends to the power grid.

DamianWarS · Jan 21, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Agreed, this was the problems of the Scribes and Pharisees that were quick to judge others against their own rules and interpretation in regards to Sabbath keeping when they even accused Jesus the creator of the Sabbath of breaking His own Sabbath. They did not know that the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath which is what they were trying to teach.

According to the law may you buy and sell on the Sabbath?

LoveGodsWord · Jan 21, 2021

DamianWarS said:
According to the law may you buy and sell on the Sabbath?

No one is buying and selling on the Sabbath by leaving their fridge on to preserve their food or turning on a light to read their bible on the Sabbath. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath *Mark 2:27. Do you think you would be one of those in the days of Jesus that would have accused Jesus who made the Sabbath of breaking the Sabbath because he did not follow their own rules and regulations? Yet dear friend, here you are, trying to teach others about how to keep the Sabbath yet you do not even keep the Sabbath yourself? Your kind of out there on your own on this one dear friend. I believe God is talking to you and wants you to keep His Sabbath if you love him. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we knowingly break anyone of God's commandments according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. If we love God we will better understand the Spirit of the law. Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. No one can claim to love God by breaking them *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:3. Something to pray about.

DamianWarS · Jan 22, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
No one is buying and selling on the Sabbath by leaving their fridge on to preserve their food or turning on a light to read their bible on the Sabbath.

electricity is sold to make a profit and its cost is determined by the supply and demand of the market just like any other product out there. We are the consumers of electricity and our arrangement may be different than walking in a store, handing over money and walking out with a product, but we still have a buying arrangement where, as consumers of electricity, we are giving money in exchange for electricity. They are selling it in the open market, we are buying it in the open market. Although simply being connecting to the grid uses a minimal amount of electricity we may still limit our consumption by turning off non-essential appliances and minimizing our use to non-essential use. by doing this we are valuing a system that prohibits buying and selling as they are forms of work. (not to mention the workforce running to generate that electricity that is also swept under the rug).

LoveGodsWord said:
here you are, trying to teach others about how to keep the Sabbath yet you do not even keep the Sabbath yourself? Your kind of out there on your own on this one dear friend.

I'm talking about what one must do in modern living to keep the letter of the law. I don't keep the letter of the law but you may be surprised how agreeable my sabbath is with your own. I just understand that I am unable to keep the letter of the law however this doesn't mean I throw away the sabbath. I use the same measure on myself, I use electricity during the sabbath and because of that, regardless of the other actions I do or do not take, I am no longer able to keep the letter of the law because I am aware of how disagreeable using a service like electricity is with the letter of the law.

I also understand even if I did turn off the power (which is not that difficult to do or to live a single day this way) I still am unable to keep the letter of the law, but I'm ok with this because keeping the letter of the law is not my goal and if it was, I would fail every time. I can only keep the sabbath through Christ and without Christ, no matter how hard I try, I am unable to keep the sabbath. Simple logic and a process of elimination show then that it is not my actions that keep the sabbath, but Christ's and so it is Christ that I look to, not my own actions.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 22, 2021

DamianWarS said:
electricity is sold to make a profit and its cost is determined by the supply and demand of the market just like any other product out there. We are the consumers of electricity and our arrangement may be different than walking in a store, handing over money and walking out with a product, but we still have a buying arrangement where, as consumers of electricity, we are giving money in exchange for electricity. They are selling it in the open market, we are buying it in the open market. Although simply being connecting to the grid uses a minimal amount of electricity we may still limit our consumption by turning off non-essential appliances and minimizing our use to non-essential use. by doing this we are valuing a system that prohibits buying and selling as they are forms of work. (not to mention the workforce running to generate that electricity that is also swept under the rug). I'm talking about what one must do in modern living to keep the letter of the law. I don't keep the letter of the law but you may be surprised how agreeable my sabbath is with your own. I just understand that I am unable to keep the letter of the law however this doesn't mean I throw away the sabbath. I use the same measure on myself, I use electricity during the sabbath and because of that, regardless of the other actions I do or do not take, I am no longer able to keep the letter of the law because I am aware of how disagreeable using a service like electricity is with the letter of the law. I also understand even if I did turn off the power (which is not that difficult to do or to live a single day this way) I still am unable to keep the letter of the law, but I'm ok with this because keeping the letter of the law is not my goal and if it was, I would fail every time. I can only keep the sabbath through Christ and without Christ, no matter how hard I try, I am unable to keep the sabbath. Simple logic and a process of elimination show then that it is not my actions that keep the sabbath, but Christ's and so it is Christ that I look to, not my own actions.

What do you think the meaning is of the complete post you are only part quoting from might mean dear friend?

HIM · Jan 22, 2021

DamianWarS said:
According to the law may you buy and sell on the Sabbath?

No.
You can add rent to your list. And btw don't use your toilet.

The people of God were never to keep the letter of the Law. It has always been through love through His Spirit TO KEEP THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW. Which btw is harder than the letter of the Law because it is a loving, self sacrificing Spirit. Which we in and of ourselves do not possess. That is why Christ came so we can possess such a Spirit.

BNR32FAN · Jan 22, 2021

DamianWarS said:
Nehemiah 10:31 (but also the 4th commandment proper) These are verses that help us establish a context of permissible activities on the Sabbath and where it does not explicitly say do not buy and sell on the Sabbath it would be irresponsible not to infer this. These also are not my interpretations but widely agreeable with those you endorse keeping the letter of the law. If you think it is permissible to buy/sell on the Sabbath then this point is not for you but I am refering to the letter of the law and your disagreement then is with the letter of the law not me. Bringing up this implictly agrees with me regarding electricity, at least in logic, that if it is not permissible to buy and sell on the Sabbath then that extends to the power grid.

Like I said it was never commanded by God.

DamianWarS · Jan 22, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Like I said it was never commanded by God.

The commandment found in the 10 commandments is worded to be inclusive of all people in our reach. The modern world has made this reach without limit. Selling is work and buying supports that work. I have not met anyone who removes buying and selling from the letter of the law so your position on this would be unusual and I would assume you also agree that buying and selling generally is reasonable on the Sabbath and does not go against the letter of the law. If correct you've just painted yourself in a corner.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 22, 2021

DamianWarS said:
The commandment found in the 10 commandments is worded to be inclusive of all people in our reach. The modern world has made this reach without limit. Selling is work and buying supports that work. I have not met anyone who removes buying and selling from the letter of the law so your position on this would be unusual and I would assume you also agree that buying and selling generally is reasonable on the Sabbath and does not go against the letter of the law. If correct you've just painted yourself in a corner.

Like I said previously, it seems like you're not here out of interest in learning about the Sabbath or trying to keep it for yourself, more out of your own amusement and so you can judge other according to your own interpretations.

Jesus does not want us to mock His Sabbath. My friend you are doing that. Something you should consider praying about. Maybe God is trying to reach you about honoring His Sabbath. It's not too late....

DamianWarS · Jan 22, 2021

imge said:
Like I said previously, it seems like you're not here out of interest in learning about the Sabbath or trying to keep it for yourself, more out of your own amusement and so you can judge other according to your own interpretations.

I am here to expose the futility of keeping the letter of the law to keep the Sabbath so that instead we can turn our focus on Christ to keep the sabbath. However, even if my motives were as you say, this doesn't make what I say untrue. There is still a massive logic problem that is being avoided that people are more than content with accusing me of being as a pharisee or saying that's too far and then just sweep it under a rug. The letter of the 4th commandment simply is not compatible with modern western living and the moment you turn a light bulb on you are directly engaged in a work-powered system that is in violation of the letter of the law. It not just contributing to the demand but also buying a product being sold for a profit.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 22, 2021

DamianWarS said:
I am here to expose the futility of keeping the letter of the law to keep the Sabbath so that instead we can turn our focus on Christ to keep the sabbath. However, even if my motives were as you say, this doesn't make what I say untrue. There is still a massive logic problem that is being avoided that people are more than content with accusing me of being as a pharisee or saying that's too far and then just sweep it under a rug. The letter of the 4th commandment simply is not compatible with modern western living and the moment you turn a light bulb on you are directly engaged in a work-powered system that is in violation of the letter of the law. It not just contributing to the demand but also buying a product being sold for a profit.

Do you think you are doing justice to God by trying to "trick" people and "paint them in corners"? Especially when you yourself admit you do not keep the Sabbath. Seems like a lot of hypocrisy to me.

guevaraj · Jan 22, 2021

imge said:
Do you think you are doing justice to God by trying to "trick" people and "paint them in corners"? Especially when you yourself admit you do not keep the Sabbath. Seems like a lot of hypocrisy to me.

Sister, happy Sabbath! I keep the Sabbath today starting at 10:04 am when it begins in Israel because that is what the Bible shows me instead of the "human tradition" that we inherited from the Jews who have not fully understood the Sabbath.

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” (Mark 7:8-13 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

SabbathBlessings · Jan 22, 2021

guevaraj said:
Sister, happy Sabbath! I keep the Sabbath today starting at 10:04 am when it begins in Israel because that is what the Bible shows me instead of the "human tradition" that we inherited from the Jews who have not fully understood the Sabbath.

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” (Mark 7:8-13 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

What does the Bible say about stealing?

Also read Proverbs 18 1-2 A man who isolates himself seeks his own desire; He rages against all wise judgement. 2 A fool has no delight in understanding But in expressing his own heart.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 22, 2021

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]
That wasn't my question.

Someone that has "true prophesy" coming from God is not breaking any of Gods commandments.

DamianWarS · Jan 22, 2021

imge said:
Do you think you are doing justice to God by trying to "trick" people and "paint them in corners"? Especially when you yourself admit you do not keep the Sabbath. Seems like a lot of hypocrisy to me.

I admit I don't keep the letter of the law (because we are unable) I didn't say I don't keep the sabbath but perhaps we have a terminology problem. I think your confused what hyporcrisy is as I use the same measure on myself, I don't keep the letter of the Sabbath because I use things like electricity on the sabbath. My point is exposing you can't keep the letter of the law but I'm not requiring others to meet those requirements. I also am not painting others in corners they are doing that without my help.

Regardless ad hominem attacks still doesn't answer the point. Even if I am everything you say I am me being a jerk (hypothetically) doesn't void the point that engaging in a workforce service that is for sale on the Sabbath, including electricity, for non-essential needs goes against the letter of the law.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 22, 2021

DamianWarS said:
I admit I don't keep the letter of the law (because we are unable) I didn't say I don't keep the sabbath but perhaps we have a temrinology problem. I think your confused what hyporcrisy is as I use the same measure on myself, I don't keep the letter of the Sabbath because I use things like electricity on the sabbath. My point is exposing you can't keep the letter of the law not requiring other to meet those requirements of the law. I also am not painting others in corners they are doing that without my help.

Regardless ad hominem attacks still doesn't answer the point. Even if I am everything you say I am me being a jerk doesn't void the point that engaging in a workforce service that is for sale on the Sabbath, including electricity, for non-essential needs goes against the letter of the law.

No one keeps the Spirit of the law by knowingly breaking the law according to the scriptures neither do they know God according to *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9. Those who knowingly break God's law need to be born again into God's kingdom of love written on the heart in the Spirit *Ezekiel 36:24-27; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:10-12. Sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following God's Word *James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23. Sin (breaking God's law or not believing his Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:10. Those who are born of God do not practice sin (1 John 3:9) or breaking His commandments. God's saints keep His commandments *Revelation 14:12; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 22:14 because they have been born again to love through faith *1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16. This is why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments" - John 14:15; John 15:10; John 14:23. Something we all need to pray about I guess as we examine ourselves to see if we are really in the faith or not *2 Corinthians 13:5

DamianWarS · Jan 23, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
No one keeps the Spirit of the law by knowingly breaking the law according to the scriptures neither do they know God according to *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9. Those who knowingly break God's law need to be born again into God's kingdom of love written on the heart in the Spirit *Ezekiel 36:24-27; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:10-12. Sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following God's Word *James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23. Sin (breaking God's law or not believing his Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:10. Those who are born of God do not practice sin (1 John 3:9) or breaking His commandments. God's saints keep His commandments *Revelation 14:12; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 22:14 because they have been born again to love through faith *1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16. This is why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments" - John 14:15; John 15:10; John 14:23. Something we all need to pray about I guess as we examine ourselves to see if we are really in the faith or not *2 Corinthians 13:5

You are conflating "his commandments" with a requirement to keep the letter of the law and I just don't see it that way. This is a equivocation problem that can't be resolved simply saying my way is right. Your arguments are very surface and don't seem interested in addressing the core of the issue or challenging the meaning of these verses. I present an argument of logic and scripture and I am accused of forsaking my faith and being judgmental rather than actually a proper defence. You may call me whatever you wish or remove me from your big kids table but none of this actually addresses the logic problem I present it just tries to change the subject to something else.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 23, 2021

DamianWarS said:
You are conflating "his commandments" with a requirement to keep the letter of the law and I just don't see it that way. This is a equivocation problem that can't be resolved simply saying my way is right. Your arguments are very surface and don't seem interested in addressing the core of the issue or challenging the meaning of these verses. I present an argument of logic and scripture and I am accused of forsaking my faith and being judgmental rather than actually a proper defence. You may call me whatever you wish or remove me from your big kids table but none of this actually addresses the logic problem I present it just tries to change the subject to something else.

Not really dear friend. I have only shared Gods' Word with you, which are God's Word not my words that your trying to deny with your words that are not God's Word. If I have only provided God's Word from the scriptures in the post you are quoting from above but do not address, why do you not believe them? For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29 and you have not provided any for your teachings here. Your OP is similar to that of the Jews in the days of Jesus, when they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath when he was the creator of it, because he did not follow their erroneous teaching about the Sabbath. Jesus taught them that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath and that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1:12; Mark 2:27-28. Your teachings are the opposite of what Jesus taught. Yet you do not even seek to keep God's 4th commandment Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11. May I ask, why does this not concern you?

DamianWarS · Jan 23, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really dear friend. I have only shared Gods' Word with you, which are God's Word not my words that your trying to deny with your words that are not God's Word. If I have only provided God's Word from the scriptures in the post you are quoting from above but do not address, why do you not believe them? For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29 and you have not provided any for your teachings here. Your OP is similar to that of the Jews in the days of Jesus, when they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath when he was the creator of it, because he did not follow their erroneous teaching about the Sabbath. Jesus taught them that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath and that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1:12; Mark 2:27-28. Your teachings are the opposite of what Jesus taught. Yet you do not even seek to keep God's 4th commandment Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11. May I ask, why does this not concern you?

Rom 3:4 is context for Jews not gentiles and your intended purpose is obfuscated. if you want to see the context for gentiles go down to vs 27-31 where it says gentiles are not under the law of works as Jews are but under the law of faith and it is through this faith (for the gentile), not works, the law is upheld. The verses you quote are unclear and just create confusion. I mean Acts 2:29 "We must obey God rather than man" what is your purpose in quoting this? You're conflating liberally anything that speaks of commandments or obedience to God as in compliance with the letter of the law but missing the due diligence. they are just verses with arbitrary lines drawn back to the law and it's not a position I can respect as it is not articulated. I get your goal but your sources don't match.

let's also bring this back on course. Your points are all outside the OP and more about trying to discredit me. the OP is about the use of manpower systems on the sabbath are in violation of the letter of the law.

Does turning my lights on violate the sabbath?

Well-Known Member

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Well-Known Member

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Well-Known Member

Friend

He’s a Way of life

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Well-Known Member

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Well-Known Member

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Well-Known Member

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Well-Known Member

Follower of Isa Al Masih

Similar threads