The New Covenant

jeffweedaman · Jan 21, 2021

What covenant of God are we a part of now?
Is it the old or is it the new?

2Cor 3
3 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you?
2 You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all people, 3 revealing yourselves, that you are a letter of Christ, delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such is the confidence we have toward God through Christ. 5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Through the adequacy of God and the power of his Spirit we all gather to this...,

Heb 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

No point gathering in one geographical area of a fallen and doomed earth.

We look to a NHNE where righteousness will dwell.

2Pet 3
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

Thats a NC promise.

keras · Jan 21, 2021

jgr said:
Jesus knew that these prophecies existed (He inspired them), when He extended His New Covenant in His Blood to His disciples, and they believed and received It. (Matthew 26:26-28). Both parties fulfilled their part.

So the NC was made between Jesus and the Disciples? They are all dead and gone, making it null and void. Too bad for us!
The prophesies that I have presented are quite clear: the New Covenant will be made between Jesus and His living peoples, when they are a nation in the holy Land.
I see it happening in Revelation 14:1 & 7:9 and 1 Thessalonians 1:10.

mkgal1 said:
I don't believe I'm the one that's confused.

You have no proof that the NC is made and in operation now.
The list of what will happen, in Hebrews 8:10-12, remain to be fulfilled.

Guojing · Jan 21, 2021

Mike Tang said:
Is this new?

Didn't Jesus ALREADY make a New Covenant in the New Testament ?

That was supposed to be the last one wasn't it ?

The key is to understand exactly when the Old Covenant of Law was made with Israel.

It was not made when God gave the Law to Moses in Mount Sinai.

It was only made when the nation Israel collectively accepted and declared they were willing to be under the Old Covenant.

That happened in Exodus 24.

1And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the Lord, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.

2 And Moses alone shall come near the Lord: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.

3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do.

4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the Lord.

6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.

7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.

8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

Likewise, Jesus's death on the cross did not execute the New Covenant with Israel. Jesus's death on the cross only made possible the New Covenant with Israel.

Peter and the 11 preached to Israel in early Acts urging them to repent and accept him as the Son of God.

When they preached the kingdom in the 4 Gospels, the kingdom was merely at hand for Israel (Matthew 10:5-7). But in Acts 3:19-21, Peter began to offer the actual kingdom of God, only if the nation collectively repent.

Had the nation collectively done so, the New Covenant would have been executed with them.

But as we have seen in Acts 7, their leaders rejected Christ and killed Stephen, leading to the fall of Israel, as stated in Romans 11.

You cannot cut a New Covenant with the nation Israel when the latter refused to be under it.

But as Paul explained there, the nation Israel has not been abandoned by God. When Jesus returns for them after the Tribulation, the entire nation would acknowledge Christ and it will be then that the New Covenant would finally be cut with them, as stated in Hebrews 8:8.

fhansen · Jan 21, 2021

keras said:
The New Covenant is not made yet. We just have the future Promise of it.
None of the four things listed in Hebrews 8:10-12 have fully happened yet:
1/ I shall set My Laws in their hearts.
2/ I shall be their God and they will be My people.
3/ They will not teach each other, for all will know the Lord.
4/ I shall pardon their sins and remember their wickedness no more.

The New Covenant will be made between the Lord and His corporate Christian peoples, after the Sixth Seal event has cleared and cleansed all of the holy Land, and all the righteous, faithful Christian peoples will migrate to live there: Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:26

Ezekiel 34:25 I shall make a Covenant with them for their peace and prosperity....

Isaiah 61:8..... I will grant them a sure reward and make an everlasting Covenant with them.

Isaiah 59:20-21 The Lord will come as a Redeemer to Zion and to those descended from Jacob who repent of their rebellion. This is the Covenant I will make with them: My Spirit will abide with them thru all the following generations.

Jeremiah 32:37-40 I shall gather My people from all the lands where they now live......I will make and everlasting Covenant with them, it will be a joy for Me to do them good.

Ezekiel 37:26 [After the Spiritual regeneration and the rejoining of the tribes] I shall make an everlasting Covenant with them, for their peace and prosperity and their numbers will greatly increase. I will put My Sanctuary in their midst, where it will remain for all time.

Isaiah 33:17-24 Those who live righteously and speak the truth, who do not take bribes, rejecting all evil – they will dwell securely with ample food and water. Psalms 85:12

Your eyes will see a King in his glory and view a Land that stretches into the distance. Numbers 24:15-19, Genesis 15:18

You will call to mind what you once feared. Where are they now? Those barbarous people whose speech you could not understand. Psalms 58:10-11, Psalms 37:8-15, Jeremiah 12:14-16
Look upon Zion, Jerusalem, city of sacred festivals. A secure abode, never again to be moved. Amos 9:13-15

There the Lord will be in His majesty, a peaceful place. A place of broad rivers, but no ships will sail there.
The Lord is our judge and lawgiver. He is our King who will save us. Zechariah 8:7-8
Your rigging hangs loose, the mast is not secure and your sails are not set. Luke 12:35-36. Then all will take a share in the spoils. Zechariah 9:17

No one living in Zion will get sick and the sins of the people will be pardoned.

Micah 7:18 Who is God like You? You take away our guilt and forgive the sins of the faithful remnant of Your people......

No, the new covenant is operative in the here and now.

1) God places his law in our minds and writes it on our hearts now. This is called justification.
2) I shall be their God and they shall be my people. This is the whole point of our faith. Adam effectively dismissed God, as God. We're to sort of reverse that decision within ourselves, with grace. This turning to God and establishing communion with Him is the essence of faith.
3) We'd better begin to know God now, personally:
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3
4) Among other things, mercy and forgiveness are what He does, that's why He suffered and died on the cross.

None of this is perfected in this life however:
"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Cor 13:12

Navair2 · Jan 21, 2021

keras said:
The New Covenant is not made yet. We just have the future Promise of it.

" And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. " (Matthew 26:27-28).

" And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many. " (Mark 14:24).

" Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. " (Luke 22:20).

" After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. (1 Corinthians 11:25).

noun: testament; plural noun: testaments

1.
a person's will, especially the part relating to personal property.
"father's will and testament"
2.
something that serves as a sign or evidence of a specified fact, event, or quality.
"growing attendance figures are a testament to the event's popularity"

Middle English: from Latin testamentum ‘a will’ (from testari ‘testify’), in Christian Latin also translating Greek diathēkē ‘covenant’.

Strong's G1242, "διαθήκη", transliterated as, " diathēkē" and meaning, "covenant" or "testament".
G1242 - diathēkē - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat26.pdf

Navair2 · Jan 21, 2021

keras said:
1/ I shall set My Laws in their hearts.

"Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 [forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God;
6 who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." ( 2 Corinthians 3:2-3 ).

keras said:
2/ I shall be their God and they will be My people.

" [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." ( Romans 9:22-26 ).

Navair2 · Jan 21, 2021

keras said:
3/ They will not teach each other, for all will know the Lord.

" It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me." ( John 6:45 ).

" But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another." ( 1 Thessalonians 4:9 ).

" But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." ( 1 John 2:27 ).

keras said:
4/ I shall pardon their sins and remember their wickedness no more.

" And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" ( Colossians 2:13-14 ).

eclipsenow · Jan 21, 2021

"The New Covenant is not made yet."

Have you not heard of the New Testament?

mkgal1 · Jan 21, 2021

keras said:
The New Covenant will be made with the Lord's faithful people, when they are together in a corporate group. Not as we are now, but gathered into the holy Land, as many prophesies tell us:
The Lord’s People gathered out of the Nations, after the Lord’s Day of Wrath:

Yes......this is our early church apostolic history. This took place in ancient Jerusalem in 30 AD:

Acts 2
Genesis 11:1–9; Leviticus 23:15–22)

1When the day of Pentecosta came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.5Now there were dwellingb in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound rang out, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking his own language.7Astounded and amazed, they asked, “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8How is it then that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,c 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and converts to Judaism; Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”12Astounded and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

jgr · Jan 21, 2021

keras said:
So the NC was made between Jesus and the Disciples? They are all dead and gone, making it null and void. Too bad for us!

Matthew 26
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Do you think that many is limited to only the disciples?

Have your sins been remitted?

If so, they are are remitted by the Blood of the New Testament.

If not, too bad for you.

Are yours remitted?

Yes or no?

eclipsenow · Jan 21, 2021

It's amazing how quickly various Millennial futurist theologies start to attack our very understanding of the gospel itself. What is heaven, what is God's kingdom, and who are God's people are all up for grabs!

keras · Jan 21, 2021

eclipsenow said:
It's amazing how quickly various Millennial futurist theologies start to attack our very understanding of the gospel itself. What is heaven, what is God's kingdom, and who are God's people are all up for grabs!

What is amazing is how people are locked into Church doctrines and false theories and become unable to see the reality of our situation now and what God intends to do about it.

jgr said:
Do you think that many is limited to only the disciples?

It was at that time. The actual 'many' who will cut the new Covenant, will be all the faithful living Christians, after the Sixth Seal event. As seen in Revelation 7:1-14

jgr said:
Have your sins been remitted?

Not yet, no ones have yet.
Please explain how instant remittance of sins works? If a Christian steals something, possibly inadvertently; is that action never held against them or is it recorded and then erased? That whole idea is wacky.
I showed the prophecy which tells us when the Lord's general forgivenes
for all our sins, will happen. Isaiah 33:24

mkgal1 said:
Yes......this is our early church apostolic history. This took place in ancient Jerusalem in 30 AD:

The Day of Pentecost, was when the disciples received the holy Spirit, to enable them to do their task of evangelization of the known world.
It has nothing to do with the New Covenant. The NC is only ever mentioned as a future thing yet to happen.

eclipsenow said:
Have you not heard of the New Testament?

Yes, I don't live in a rabbit burrow, as you seem to do.
I have provided ample scriptural proof of when the NC will be made.
All I get in rebuttal from those deceived people who fool themselves into thinking they are in the new Covenant, is useless comments bereft of any scriptural support.

eclipsenow · Jan 21, 2021

keras said:
What is amazing is how people are locked into Church doctrines and false theories and become unable to see the reality of our situation now and what God intends to do about it.

Your 'reality' is about as real as QAnon's "Storm" that was supposed to happen to prevent Biden being inaugurated. The Lord could return in 5 seconds, or 500,000 years! We just don't know. He will return "as a thief", suddenly, surprisingly, and the results will be eternal. The sheep and goats will be divided and eternally saved or judged. There's just no room for a "millennium".

Guojing · Jan 21, 2021

eclipsenow said:
"The New Covenant is not made yet."

Have you not heard of the New Testament?

This link may educate you about the difference

How are we “able ministers of the new testament?”

jgr · Jan 21, 2021

eclipsenow said:
It's amazing how quickly various Millennial futurist theologies start to attack our very understanding of the gospel itself. What is heaven, what is God's kingdom, and who are God's people are all up for grabs!

It is the apostasy of this age.

God calls His True Church out from it.

2 Corinthians 6
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

jgr · Jan 21, 2021

Guojing said:
This link may educate you about the difference

How are we “able ministers of the new testament?”

Provide us with just one name of an historical defender of the true faith who did not believe that true Christians are under the New Covenant.

Just one name.

Keras couldn't find one.

Can you?

Keras has admitted to being a cult among cults.

Will you be joining him?

eclipsenow · Jan 21, 2021

Guojing said:
This link may educate you about the difference

How are we “able ministers of the new testament?”

Meh - boring - it's from a KJV is superior author. Put me off right away. So many more important historical manuscripts have been found since the KJV was put together that comparing KJV manuscripts to today's manuscripts is like saying the Wright Brother's plane is somehow superior to an A380! But the Wright brothers plane didn't even fly half the way across an A380.

That's how poor their manuscripts were compared to today's. I'd trust today's biblical scholarship regarding word choice over the KJV anytime.

Guojing · Jan 21, 2021

jgr said:
Provide us with just one name of an historical defender of the true faith who did not believe that true Christians are under the New Covenant.

Just one name.

Keras couldn't find one.

Can you?

Keras has admitted to being a cult among cults.

Will you be joining him?

We are saved by being in the Body of Christ.

We are not saved by the New Covenant.

Many people don't care about the difference.

Guojing · Jan 21, 2021

eclipsenow said:
Meh - boring - it's from a KJV is superior author. Put me off right away. So many more important historical manuscripts have been found since the KJV was put together that comparing KJV manuscripts to today's manuscripts is like saying the Wright Brother's plane is somehow superior to an A380! But the Wright brothers plane didn't even fly half the way across an A380.

That's how poor their manuscripts were compared to today's. I'd trust today's biblical scholarship regarding word choice over the KJV anytime.
View attachment 293825

That is up to you, cheers.

eclipsenow · Jan 21, 2021

Also, this is an important article that replies to some of the arguments in your link above.

I had never heard of replacement theology the first time I was accused of believing in it. A lady that had attended our church for some time and who often forwarded me articles praising all things Jewish and Israel accused me of holding to this apparently abhorrent doctrine. I had to look it up on the Internet, where all such truths reside, before responding. One of the sites I visited defines replacement theology this way:

Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel.[1]

I’m not sure that I’ve ever met anyone who actually believes that “the church replaces Israel” and I’m sure I’ve never met anyone who believes that “God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel.”

What an odd way of putting things.

The Bible seems to teach quite clearly that Jesus IS Israel and in some sense fulfills all of the hopes and expectations for the nation. He does what they never could. He obeys God perfectly and keeps the law entirely and thereby unlocks all of the promises and blessings that God had said he would give. He then shares those blessings with all people – Jew or Gentile – who put their faith and trust in him.

That is the precise argument that Paul is making in Galatians 3. He says:

Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. (Galatians 3:16 ESV)

Jesus Christ is the ultimate focus and referent for the promises of God to Israel! The promises do not land finally on a nation but on a person! The glory and climax of God’s redemptive purpose is not “Israel in the land” but “Christ on the cross”! That’s Christianity 101 the last time I checked. Jesus is the hero and focus of the Bible – not the Jewish people as a whole and all of the blessings won by Jesus are shared equally with all believing people regardless of their ethnicity, gender or class. Isn’t that what Paul goes on to say in the same chapter?

for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:26–29 ESV)

I have believed that from my earliest days as a Christian, as indeed has almost every other believer I’ve ever met.

As for the idea that “God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel”; its hard to think of anything more ridiculous than that. What nation on earth exists outside the notice and care of Almighty God? The Bible says that God has plans for Edom for crying out loud, how much more should we believe that he has plans for Israel?

I don’t know of any Christians who believe that God has no specific future plans for the nation of Israel, but I do know that good Christians disagree on what those plans are likely to be. The key text in that discussion is Romans 11:26 where Paul says: “And in this way all Israel will be saved” (Romans 11:26 ESV).

What does he mean by that? He has already said that ‘not all are Israel who are of Israel’ (9:6) so what exactly does he mean and what exactly does God have planned? There are two main answers commonly given to that question.

(1) He means that the full elect of God, Jew and Gentile, will all be gathered into Christ according to God’s perfect will.

That was the position of John Calvin and has had a great deal of support throughout Christian history. According to this view, God has very specific plans to save a great many people from every tribe, tongue and nation, including the nation of Israel. ‘All Israel’ thus refers to all the elect and redeemed Jews and all the elect and redeemed Gentiles collectively. The Gentiles do not replace the Jews but are gathered into Christ alongside.

(2) He means that shortly before the return of Jesus the Jewish people en mass will turn to faith in Christ

This option was dominant among my spiritual ancestors and represents the view that I favour to this day. William Carey and Andrew Fuller for example, two of the founders of The Baptist Missionary Society, both looked forward to a general conversion of the Jewish people prior to the return of Christ. Fuller wrote on this topic at some length in his Expository Remarks Relative To The Conversion Of The Jews. Iain Murray has written convincingly that this was the dominant view of the Puritans...
Does Anyone Actually Believe in Replacement Theology? - The Gospel Coalition | Canada

The New Covenant

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