Why do many Christians not understand this?

BNR32FAN

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As I think I might have shared, I thought I was born again about 16 years before I actually was. Christ moves in and teaches each of His brethren from the least to the greatest. When this happens, your eyes and ears are opened.

None of these verses are pertaining to people who think they are saved. Paul said “you have been sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption”. These verses are pertaining to people who have received grace and still their fate is uncertain. Their salvation is contingent on how they react to grace.
 
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BNR32FAN

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" And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 [and] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
( Colossians 2:10-15 ).

Yes but Paul has just written in Colossians 1:22-23

“And although you were previously alienated and hostile in attitude, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His body of flesh through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:21-23‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Do you believe all of a person’s sins will be forgiven if they do not remain in Christ?
 
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Goodhuman

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I thought my meaning was obvious. What is going on in that picture? It is what I think you were doing in your post. Perhaps this is an English speaking idiom. At least in the English speaking world , cherry picking is when one searches to find a small phrase or sentence and quotes it out of context as part of their argument.

It's not from the bible, it is mine. Bible verses are only additional.
 
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lsume

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None of these verses are pertaining to people who think they are saved. Paul said “you have been sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption”. These verses are pertaining to people who have received grace and still their fate is uncertain. Their salvation is contingent on how they react to grace.
Perhaps I might have agreed with you some 35 years ago. However, when Christ visits His elect as a thief in the night, He doesn’t leave. It’s something that must happen. He corrects his brethren.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Perhaps I might have agreed with you some 35 years ago. However, when Christ visits His elect as a thief in the night, He doesn’t leave. It’s something that must happen. He corrects his brethren.

If that were true then the tree He mentioned in Luke 13:6-9 would certainly bear fruit and not be chopped down. Every branch in Him would not be cut off by The Father for not bearing fruit. John 15:2. No one would be cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned for not abiding in Him John 15:6. No one would be severed from Christ and fall from grace. Galatians 5:4. No one would be storing up the wrath of God for themselves by their stubbornness and unrepentant heart on the day of redemption despite God’s kindness and patience leading them to repentance. Romans 2:4-11. Your making these statements while ignoring the verses I provided that are refuting your statements.
 
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AJL

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We are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice....

Great idea is to periodically systematically devote prayerfully every detail of our bodies to Him.
Meaning our bodies need to be heal as living sacrifice? What about disability, blind, hearing impaired need to be living sacrifice to get heal?
We are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice....

Great idea is to periodically systematically devote prayerfully every detail of our bodies to Him.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Indeed, I said nothing that suggest that He did.

But the Pharisees rebuked Jesus for healing on the Sabbath because according to their definition of works Jesus was in violation of God’s commandment pertaining to the Sabbath.
 
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lsume

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If that were true then the tree He mentioned in Luke 13:6-9 would certainly bear fruit and not be chopped down. Every branch in Him would not be cut off by The Father for not bearing fruit. John 15:2. No one would be cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned for not abiding in Him John 15:6. No one would be severed from Christ and fall from grace. Galatians 5:4. No one would be storing up the wrath of God for themselves by their stubbornness and unrepentant heart on the day of redemption despite God’s kindness and patience leading them to repentance. Romans 2:4-11. Your making these statements while ignoring the verses I provided that are refuting your statements.
Please pray about this understanding; when Christ Spoke of there not being left one stone upon another in the opening to Mathew 24, He was Speaking about what happens through the born again experience. It is a Spiritual message. I am aware of the physical destruction in 70 AD. As I have tried to share often, The Bible is a Spiritual Book. The only way to acquire Godly knowledge is directly from Him. I should also add that every stone in our temple not placed by God The Father upon the foundation of Christ will come down. I have experienced this and know it to be true. Christ opened my eyes and ears a long time ago.
 
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Toro

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Why spend the time it takes to argue and divide... rather than pray to the one that gives revelation to give eyes to those that do not see and hearing to those without ears to hear?

It is far easier for us to look down on those that do not understand... rather than to pray to the one that gives understanding on their behalf.
 
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Swan7

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Yet, it's a frequent belief in Christianty that Eternal Security is a doctrine of the devil.

As a whole, I agree with what you're scriptural-y saying. Even Jesus Christ Himself has said: John 5:24. This was exactly His ministry, Grace of the Good News. He said many times "your faith has saved you."

It's clear we have an understanding of this Gospel of Grace, but others do not hold to the same perception. Perception is key and we must have the same perception as God - and that comes from God. It's so imperative that we read or hear His Word with Him. It's the same as being a little child getting distracted and suddenly you notice your parent(s) are no longer there. This child becomes lost. So it is the same when we read or listen to His Word which we can mistakenly understand on our own strength. This has happened to me many times before learning to completely and undeniably rely on God's strength and wisdom.

Our job is not to beat people over the head with God's Word (I've actually witnessed something very similar to this analogy), but to lovingly come alongside them and show them the path which they should follow, which is following after Christ. We live in an evil age, getting more evil by the hour. Remember that love covers a multitude of sins. :yellowheart:
 
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Soyeong

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But the Pharisees rebuked Jesus for healing on the Sabbath because according to their definition of works Jesus was in violation of God’s commandment pertaining to the Sabbath.

It is work to heal and it is unlawful to work on the Sabbath, so it is reasonable for someone to think that it is therefore unlawful to heal on the Sabbath, however, they would be wrong because we are also commanded to love our neighbor, and it would not be loving our neighbor to refuse to heal them. The command to rest on the Sabbath was never intended to be used as an excuse to prevent us from obeying the greatest two commandments, which is why Jesus ruled that it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath. So there were some forms of work that were never intended to be understood as being prohibited by the Sabbath, such as priests making offerings on the Sabbath(Numbers 28:9-10). It wasn't the case that priests were forced to sin either by breaking the Sabbath in order to obey Numbers 28:9-10 or by disobeying Numbers 28:9-10 in order to keep the Sabbath, but that the Sabbath was never intended to be understood as prohibiting Numbers 28:9-10, which is why Jesus said that priests who performed their duties on the Sabbath were held innocent (Matthew 12:5-7). In the same way, Jesus was innocent of breaking the Sabbath by healing on it even though healing is work.
 
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Jaxxi

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Why do many Christians not understand that it is by God's grace that we are saved through our faith? Why do they understand that our faith is not of our own doing but that it is a gift of God? Not by our works because our works are as righteous as filthy rags?

Why do they not understand that to accept this teaching does not make them robots nor does it nullify God's grace but instead enhances it a billion times fold? Why do they not understand that it is God that needs all the glory, not mankind because without God, we are nothing.

Why do people not understand that without God's sovereignty we are nothing? Or that there is not a single thing that happens that goes outside of God's sovereign will and God is sovereign over all?

Sound familiar? It should and not a single word I said did I make up on my own but was Holy Scripture. Because I just quoted one of the most popular pieces of scripture that Paul wrote and mentioned several sections of the Bible including what the Prophet Isaiah prophesied all those years ago. Because, Christians the world over love to quote these verses to say that we aren't saved by our works (which is true) but, they also ignore the rest of what Paul and the prophets wrote. Let me explain and highlight Ephesians 2:8-9 for people.


Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Yes, it is your faith that saves you. There's no twisting or disagreement here. But your faith does not come from you, it comes from the grace and mercy of God. This faith is more precious than gold, because it comes from God. This faith will never waver and will never go away, because it comes from and is kept by God.

Don't believe me? Read what Paul, Peter, Jesus, and the writer of Hebrews said about our faith and about our salvation. Study it and take its meaning to heart because, everything I said is all there. Especially the Apostle Peter who said that we are a chosen possession and God's forever. Born of not corruptible seed, but incorruptible.

Yet, it's a frequent belief in Christianty that Eternal Security is a doctrine of the devil. Why? Because the Apostles talked about it and they're of the devil? That's essentially what they're saying. Its commonly taught that the basic idea of the reformed theology is from the Devil as well. Why? Because Paul is of the devil? Be careful what you're saying here. I didn't write these things, the Apostles and Prophets did. The apostle Paul may have had a shady past but Christ said he was chosen by God and everything that comes from his mouth is true, even Peter said so. I'll say it again. We are saved by Grace through faith. This faith is not of ourselves but is a gift from God and that faith will last now and forever. Amen!

Because it is difficult to accept and live our lives knowing that we are going to hell unless God gives us a gift and we have absolutely no control over this decision! It is really hard to know that nothing we can possibly do can change the fact we were born sinners, liars, cheaters, deceivers, lusters, greeders, enviers, and we are going to go to hell unless He saves us! That isn't hard for you to accept? Well congratulations! This happens to bother some people that we have no say in the matter and that a pit was dug for us in hell when we were born.
 
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Carl Emerson

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John Mullally

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19 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?…
At the judgement, many are going to protest claiming that God made me this way. But I don't agree that the way people turn out is God's fault (i.e. the way that God designed them). Romans 9:22 (just after the quoted passage) gives us the clue to this in that God "endured with much longsuffering". The point of God enduring with longsuffering is that his perfect will (all should come to repentance in 2 Peter 3:9) was rejected by the individual (clay vessel). The "preparation for destruction" in Romans 9:22 was done by the individual - its called sin.

Romans 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
1 John 2:2 says that Christ died for all. If it was God's intent to predestine some to damnation - Christ would not have died for them.

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.​
 
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BNR32FAN

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Please pray about this understanding; when Christ Spoke of there not being left one stone upon another in the opening to Mathew 24, He was Speaking about what happens through the born again experience. It is a Spiritual message. I am aware of the physical destruction in 70 AD. As I have tried to share often, The Bible is a Spiritual Book. The only way to acquire Godly knowledge is directly from Him. I should also add that every stone in our temple not placed by God The Father upon the foundation of Christ will come down. I have experienced this and know it to be true. Christ opened my eyes and ears a long time ago.

If your implying that these verses are pertaining to tares planted by the evil one then your not believing what was actually said. Perhaps if you could clarify your interpretation on these verses we could see the problem here.
 
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bling

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It is work to heal and it is unlawful to work on the Sabbath, so it is reasonable for someone to think that it is therefore unlawful to heal on the Sabbath, however, they would be wrong because we are also commanded to love our neighbor, and it would not be loving our neighbor to refuse to heal them. The command to rest on the Sabbath was never intended to be used as an excuse to prevent us from obeying the greatest two commandments, which is why Jesus ruled that it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath. So there were some forms of work that were never intended to be understood as being prohibited by the Sabbath, such as priests making offerings on the Sabbath(Numbers 28:9-10). It wasn't the case that priests were forced to sin either by breaking the Sabbath in order to obey Numbers 28:9-10 or by disobeying Numbers 28:9-10 in order to keep the Sabbath, but that the Sabbath was never intended to be understood as prohibiting Numbers 28:9-10, which is why Jesus said that priests who performed their duties on the Sabbath were held innocent (Matthew 12:5-7). In the same way, Jesus was innocent of breaking the Sabbath by healing on it even though healing is work.
A "person" does not heal, yet deity can heal, so can Deity do stuff on the Sabbath and is it really "work" for deity?
 
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lsume

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If your implying that these verses are pertaining to tares planted by the evil one then your not believing what was actually said. Perhaps if you could clarify your interpretation on these verses we could see the problem here.
That was not what I was referring to. I sense a great deal of anger in your reply. There is no place here for that.
 
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