Who is prepared for the tax hike?

98cwitr said:

I think you hit the nail on the head here. It's that fear that keeps people from taking that leap. If I may pry a bit, what's your completed level of education (or was, at the time)?

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I'm very fortunate and blessed. I have a BS in Chemical Engineering and a BA in religious studies (1991). I worked in IT starting in 2000. In 2006 I sold my house and moved to Boston for seminary. Due to family issues (wife & 3 kids at the time 8, 6 and an infant), I was asked to leave in 2007, just as the recession was starting. I had two weeks to leave on-campus housing and since at the time I was a full time student, I had no income, so we threw ourselves onto welfare. I was able to find a job that fall but now the recession was in full swing. In Boston, you typically need to put down 3 months of rent to get a place. I didnt have $2000 in my pocket let alone $6000 just to get a place. Welfare becomes a trap that took me 3 years to get out of. I was very fortunate that I had a good education so now I'm very solidly middle class. For a family without a first class education (and yes, I have a VERY first class education, my alma mater is a fallback school for Ivy Leaguers), welfare is near impossible to get out of. You are limited to public housing and owned assets. So if you want to move, you cannot have money over $2000, therefore you cannot save for 3 months rent. We could only own one eleven year old minivan that my wife needed most of the time. My commute consisted of a 30 minute walk followed by 90 minutes on the bus and subway, one way. So 4 hours a day total commute time for 3 years. When I got the job offer that would replace all of the welfare benefits that I would lose, I had to take a gulp as it was for a one man IT shop. 4 months later, he had to let me go. Fortunately, the worst of the recession was over so job opportunities were starting to open up and we were able to get moving again. However, it cost me some prime years of moving up in responsibilities. As a result, even 10 years later, some doors are still closed to me due to the Great Recession.

From my own experience, someone without my background and family to assist, welfare is a never-ending nightmare. The rare cases of people doing well on welfare are pretty much individual cases who have found ways around the system. But for 99.9%, it sucks.

98cwitr said:

They'd rather teach equity instead of equality though...that's going to stifle any meaningful education. Telling black people they can't do something without help, to me, seems extremely insulting, especially since there is use case after use case (Mark Robinson comes to mind, who I am paraphrasing here with my own comment) of black Americans overcoming systemic poverty and becoming extremely successful.

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Did... did you just admit that systemic poverty exists? Wouldn’t you want to address the systemic factors contributing to poverty rather than simply telling disadvantaged demographics that they can, indeed, overcome these factors if they just believe in themselves a little more?

disciple Clint said:

That is nothing compared to what the taxes are going to have to be to bail out the cities and states that have been poorly managed, provide free medical for all illegal aliens and everyone else, provide free college and all those other free things that help people get elected but have to be paid for by someone.

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You mean the blue city and states that consistently contribute more to the budget then the red cities and states that receive more in federal money? I agree. Let's stop redirecting my money to prop up the failed republican ideology of trickle down economics.

98cwitr said:

Agreed. In fact, lets remove all federal funding to all state initiatives that are not covered by interstate commerce clause.

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Mostly agreed. There are other valid interests for Federal funds then just those covered by commerce but we do need to change the tax structure so that the states are collecting taxes for their own initiatives and the Federal government is only using money that is for items of interest to the nation as a whole.

disciple Clint said:

That is nothing compared to what the taxes are going to have to be to bail out the cities and states that have been poorly managed, provide free medical for all illegal aliens and everyone else, provide free college and all those other free things that help people get elected but have to be paid for by someone.

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Those people are also taxpayers. The gall of people to claim other people are freeloaders. The hypocrisy is dizzying, especially considering how silent folks like you were when farmers were getting welfare due to Trump's trade policy mismanagement. But par for course I guess, we know the deficit and complaining about people getting "free stuff" is the usual complaint when a Democrat is in the White House.

98cwitr said:

Telling black people they can't do something without help, to me, seems extremely insulting...

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Conversely, those who assert that beneficiaries of “affirmative action” programs, “take the spot of a more qualified white person” (usually but not always followed by a hearty “how is that ‘equal’?)...I would imagine is just as insulting.

Yes, our Laws are written to be “race neutral”.
Our society is not race neutral at the present time.

98cwitr said:

They'd rather teach equity instead of equality though...that's going to stifle any meaningful education. Telling black people they can't do something without help, to me, seems extremely insulting, especially since there is use case after use case (Mark Robinson comes to mind, who I am paraphrasing here with my own comment) of black Americans overcoming systemic poverty and becoming extremely successful.

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No one is telling them they can't do something without help, they are offering assistance because it can be extremely difficult for them compared to others.

Albion said:

We can be sure that he won't tax the super rich, since they are largely responsible for financing the Democrats' campaigns in 2020, and Big Tech is now leading the effort to squelch all political opposition to the candidates they did so much to put into office.

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Money should not play a part in politics to the extent it does, both sides should be able to agree on that.

Corporations should not be allowed to donate and donations from individuals should be capped.

essentialsaltes said:

Wrong! Eliminating Trump's punitive SALT deduction cap will have no effect on anyone except those (like me) currently punished by the SALT deduction cap.

Trump enacted it solely to punish high tax (largely blue) states, not to help poor or middle class people anywhere. Middle class?!? I'm middle class! Trump hurt middle class homeowners with this change.

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You seem to have misunderstood the situation I was referencing. Biden is determined to raise taxes. That means it will have an effect on all taxpayers and many non taxpayers as well. Including all customers of corporate taxpayers. The reinstitution of the tax deduction for the rich in high tax states will mean that the rich will pay less in income taxes in those states than they have been under the current system while the poor and the middle class get a tax increase. This will be either directly by an increase in the federal tax they pay or indirectly by an increase in the price of goods and services from corporate entities passing their tax increases along to their customers.

High Fidelity said:

Money should not play a part in politics to the extent it does, both sides should be able to agree on that.

Corporations should not be allowed to donate and donations from individuals should be capped.

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I’d betcha that most legislators would agree.
A good 40% of their time is spent fundraising.
And while those endeavors can be ego-boosting “feel-good” moments, it is still time away from the job that they need to fundraise to maintain.

The Supreme Court opened the floodgates that allowed money to flow into our political landscape, creating this vicious cycle that office holders are in...needing to appease their donors sometimes means ignoring their constituents.
This disconnects the member serving a district from benefiting those people in their district, but this is how politics have to be done unless/until a Constitutional Amendment can be proposed and passed that would go around SCOTUS’ dreadful ruling.
(An “election funding law case” that bubbles up through the circuits could also allow SCOTUS to revisit “Citizens United” and overturn it but that is about as likely as fiddling around with an Amendment.)

So, for the time being, nothing changes.

grasping the after wind said:

The reinstitution of the tax deduction for the rich in high tax states will mean that the rich will pay less in income taxes in those states than they have been under the current system while the poor and the middle class get a tax increase.
This will be either
A) directly by an increase in the federal tax they pay or
B) indirectly by an increase in the price of goods and services from corporate entities passing their tax increases along to their customers.

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Removing the cap on the SALT deduction for me does not increase taxes on anyone else. So A is wrong.
B may be true, but it is a result of a change to corporate taxes, and again is unrelated to removing the cap on the tax deduction for me (I am not a corporation-type person). (Also, raised prices are not a tax.) For reference your original statement did not mention corporate taxes at all:

Rich New York State resident will be getting a federal tax cut not a tax hike when they are again allowed to deduct state taxes from their taxable income. The poor and middle class of NY state will have to help pay for that with the increased taxes.

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essentialsaltes said:

Removing the cap on the SALT deduction for me does not increase taxes on anyone else. So A is wrong.
B may be true, but it is a result of a change to corporate taxes, and again is unrelated to removing the cap on the tax deduction for me (I am not a corporation-type person). (Also, raised prices are not a tax.) For reference your original statement did not mention corporate taxes at all:

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I did not say reinstituting the huge tax deductions for the rich in high tax states increased taxes on others. I said Biden's proposed tax increases would increase the taxes paid by everyone except those rich people in high tax states that will be once again subsidized by huge deductions again. One can surely understand why so many ultra rich people were very enthusiastic in support of Biden.

98cwitr said:

Not really. One person may have more experience than another, and thus makes them more qualified. That has nothing to do with race, so why make it about that? Race is an immutable characteristic. There's no reason to judge someone by it.

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After centuries of white folk dominating black folk in our fair land, the laws were set to be race neutral. The old policies that favored the former over the latter are in the dustbin of history, and rightfully so...
“The playing field should be level!” inadequately addresses the wrongs of the past.

High Fidelity said:

Money should not play a part in politics to the extent it does, both sides should be able to agree on that.

Corporations should not be allowed to donate and donations from individuals should be capped.

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Oddly enough, there hasn't been much pressure for that to be done, even though a lot of Americans agree with your position on it. Or so I think.

The Supreme Court ruled against limiting contributions, and many of the Democratic Party's candidates claimed that they were determined to find a way to get around that ruling. That is UNTIL the Party started being able to outspend the Republicans thanks to all the corporate millionaires and billionaires who started contributing big time to the Democratic Party.

grasping the after wind said:

I said Biden's proposed tax increases would increase the taxes paid by everyone except those rich people

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Biden's proposed tax plan raises taxes only on people making at least $400,000.

I do not make at least $400,000. I was hurt by Trump putting a cap on the SALT deduction. One can surely understand why so many middle class people were very enthusiastic in support of Biden.