What's the heart of Christianity?

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fhansen

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The heart and soul of Christianity is the love of God, expressed by Jesus, and given to us as we turn to Him in faith which brings us into His family. Love is our justice, that with which God justifies us or makes us the beings He created us to be. Love is the means by which God places his law in our minds and writes it on our hearts. When we have that kind of love, fulfilling the greatest commandments, we will have attained our purpose and perfection-probably not fully realizable until the next life-and totally impossible without grace. To love is to be under grace.
 
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aiki

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@aiki

It sounds to me that your struggling with your own will, vs God's will to me, but we all struggle with this, trying to do things (everything) in our own will instead of God's will completely having the helm in our life and completely taking over, etc...

This requires full submission of our own will over to God's will, in us and through us, etc, instead of our own will trying to do it all, which is always most certain to frustrate and fail anyways, etc, our own will, etc...

But we have to learn to know and discern His (God's) will (from withing) and have it do it (whatever the "it" is at the moment) (choose, etc) and let it (God's will) completely take over, etc...

We need to "ask", and learn to ask, (at least in our heads silently) at almost every given moment, and "listen" in those very moments to what the Spirit within us would have do or choose, etc, before our choosing or taking action also, etc...

This is difficult at first, and I think it's something we all struggle with still, but I think this might be what you might be struggling with maybe, etc...

Asking and then listening also helps us to eventually hear and discern/hear His voice much more clearly at every step and with "practice", etc, which is crucial to any kind of real true intimate personal relationship with Him, etc...

Stopping ourselves and our own will (and our own thoughts) before choosing, acting (and sometimes even thinking) and/or taking action, etc, and then listening and hearing, takes "practice", etc, but will in time, becomes easier and clearer, with "practice" doing these things, etc...

All starts with stopping yourself and asking first, then hearing comes along also, etc, and before you know it, you have a real relationship going on with Him, etc, and your no longer just relying on just your own will only either anymore, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Hmmm...Thanks for your thoughts. The things I laid out in my 3 main posts at the beginning of the thread describe a process through which I passed years ago now and stand at the other end of, writing about the experience and what God made evident to me about the many mistaken notions concerning the mechanics of walking with Him that I had been taught. Perhaps you didn't read all three posts.

I find myself these days settling more and more deeply into the truth that my "job," if you like, as a child of God is to receive, remain and reflect: Receive the work of God in me, remain in the truth of what He's done in me, and reflect that work in the character of my living. There is so much rest, and joy, and transformation that happens as I understand and live in the fact that the key to my life being filled with God is submission - moment-by-moment - to Him. You mentioned this yourself at the beginning of your post to me.

I find that, as I live in surrender to God throughout each day, He acts to change my desires, and my thinking, and my attitudes such that I want to do the things He has commanded me to do; and so I do them very naturally, without the strain and sense of burden and sacrifice that used to afflict the "holy life" I was trying to manufacture for God. How about you? Have you discovered rest, joy, strength and change in living in constant submission to your Heavenly Father?
 
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aiki

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I think in your writing you have captured the important meaning of "may your will be done, not mine". May God bless you in your journey.

Then I've succeeded!

Thanks for your comment. God's blessing upon you in your journey with Him, too!
 
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aiki

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Repentance is the fruit of salvation yes

Baptism too

They're the proof

Hmmm...didn't Jesus make repentance a prerequisite for salvation? By this I mean, didn't Jesus preach repentance as part of entering into God's kingdom?

Repentance, at its core, is a change of mind, of thinking, that leads to a change in direction in one's behaviour, values and beliefs. A sinner lost in darkness must hear the Gospel, which is the "power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes," and change their thinking about themselves, reality, eternity and God, conforming their thinking to the truth of the Gospel. And if/when they do, this change of thinking, of mind - repentance - is reflected in confession of sin, trust in Christ as Saviour and Lord, and a new life revolving around him (which will include baptism).

What do you think?

I wonder, too, about baptism being "proof" of a person's salvation. Lots of people go through the motions of baptism, some are baptized as babies, and then go on to live like the devil. The Bible offers other, less easy to fake, indicators of genuine salvation to us:

Love of the brethren. (1 John 3:14)
Witness of the Spirit. (Romans 8:16; 1 John 4:13)
Hunger for God's word. (Jeremiah 15:15; 1 Peter 2:2)
Desire for holiness. (Ephesians 5:1-12)
Divine discipline. (Hebrews 12:5-11)
Development of the Fruit of the Spirit. (Galatians 5:22-23)
Conviction of sin. (John 16:8)
Strength in the midst of trial and temptation. (Romans 8:13; Ephesians 3:16)

And so on. Do you see these "proofs" of salvation in your own life?
 
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aiki

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What I do is if I find myself getting too distracted by these things is to just ration my time using them

And spend more time with God instead

the only sure for idolatry is focusing more on Jesus

're music: is classical music ok?I

I find it uplifting and positive to listen to classical composers

I don't see anything harmful in it at all

It's good that you can see clearly enough that you are becoming distracted from God by the World to ration your exposure to the World.

A relationship is only as good as the investment you make in it, right? Spending more time with God is vital to knowing and enjoying Him more!

I listen to classical music everyday. I really enjoy Baroque stuff.
 
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aiki

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Scripture is the only thing that can help the spirit grow.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the spirit." If you mean the Holy Spirit, I don't see anywhere in Scripture where we're told he "grows" within us. Do you?

Anyway, I totally agree that "feeding" on God's word is vital to a stable, healthy Christian life. Is it really, though, "the only thing that can help"? I know atheists who read the Bible quite a lot but they aren't helped spiritually at all by doing so...

The only way that it is passed on is through believer passing on the wisdom that is brought forth. Romans 10:17: So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Okay. So, how do synthesize Romans 10:17 with Romans 12:3?

God loved us, he sent his son Jesus Christ our Lord. Who made a choice to die for us, so thus we return the same love back to him, and towards others.

Does God want from us our ignorant, sin-fouled, selfish, human love? Or, maybe, what He wants from us is His own, perfect, holy agape love shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit... (Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:22) What do you think?

Forgiving, mercy, be angry but dont* curse death upon man, love, we are given self-control by the spirit which is not our selves.

Amen!

Nice post, used many scriptures which is very helpful, aiki.

Thanks! Glad to be of help. That was my goal.
 
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Growing up within the Christian community as I did, I encountered many answers to the question, "What is the heart of Christianity?". Most commonly, I was told that the Christian life was about loving Jesus by living the way he said to live. And that way was a holy way, a moral way, a way of righteousness. As a younger man, I didn't understand that what I was hearing in this particular answer was only a half-truth and as such was not actually the truth. In fact, this view of the Christian life is what is known as Moralism and is actually quite devastating to true Christian living.

The main idea in Moralism is that the apex of the Christian life is holiness. What all Christians ought to shoot for is a life that is highly moral, free of sin and its fouling stain. Typically, on Moralism, this holy life is attained by "bearing down," by "committing to," by "discipline and determination," by "self-sacrifice and persistence." So, when I was told that, as a Christian, I ought to live a holy life, I was usually also told that doing so was accomplished by tremendous and costly self-effort.

But, it was simply my duty, my obligation, to "dig deep" and "live for Jesus." He had died for me, after all, and so, in return, I was obliged to sacrifice myself in pursuit of Christian living. And if I didn't, well, the yawning maw of hell waited to engulf me, as it would any who turned back from the great and holy work of living for Jesus.

In this thinking, three very spiritually-dangerous things - Moralism, self-effort, and fear - are bound up together, creating a "perfect storm" of faulty thinking that could only lead to frustration, compromise and hypocrisy in my walk with God. And they did.

Is righteousness the primary goal of the Christian life? No. It is merely the avenue, the means to, enjoying loving, rich fellowship with God.

Hebrews 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


In this verse, what is the purpose of living a holy, peaceful life? Is holiness an end in itself? NO! It is just the means by which the Christian believer may "see God." Is this verse speaking only of the heavenly hereafter? Or does Scripture tells us we may experience God - "see" Him - on this side of the grave, too?

The New Testament is bursting with verses that indicate that God is not just some happy future prospect we must wait 'til death to enjoy, but One with whom we may fellowship right now! The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, teaches us divine truth, and glorifies God within us (John 16:8-14); the Spirit strengthens us (Philippians 2:13; Romans 8:13; Ephesians 3:16); the Spirit produces in us spiritual "fruit" (Galatians 5:22-23); the Spirit transforms us into the likeness of Christ (2 Corinthians 3:18). And so on.

As the Holy Spirit works in us, we come to know God more, to understand Him better, and to enjoy deeper and deeper communion with Him. In this communion, this fellowship, with God there is incredible fulfillment, meaning, joy, love, peace and rest (John 14:27; Matthew 11:28-30; 1 John 4:16-19). It is this wonderful fellowship with God that is the end goal of our holy, Christ-centered living and is, actually, supposed to be the prime motivation for it.

1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.


2 Corinthians 13:14
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.


1 John 1:3
3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.


I lived for many years trying to be a holy man without ever truly knowing God and enjoying Him. Oh, I knew about God, I knew the facts of the Bible concerning God, but I didn't think I could actually experience God directly and personally on a regular basis. And so, I couldn't know Him for myself, like I would any in my social circle I called friend or family.

It was...very hard to stay motivated to live for such a distant figure I knew nothing of personally - and certainly didn't enjoy. But, I went through the motions, failing and compromising regularly, shouldering the burden of Christian living as a good soldier of Jesus Christ, though my heart yearned for - and often strayed into - other worldly, fleshly and unholy things.

I had adopted a very Moralistic approach to being a Christian, though, at the time, I'd never heard the term "Moralism." Live right. That was my goal as a Christian, which meant not doing things that were immoral. So, I went to church three or four times a week; I prayed over meals, before bed, and at Prayer Meeting on Wednesday evenings; I didn't go to the movie theater, or drink alcohol, or smoke, or listen to secular music; I didn't swear, or party or hang around with non-Christian people. I was - outwardly anyway - a good Christian guy. My moralistic thinking, though, had made me a Pharisee:

Matthew 15:7-8
7 "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
8 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.


This is where Moralism always ends up. And this is because it is working for the wrong thing entirely, and usually from the wrong power source and motive. The purpose of holy living isn't simply to be holy but to create a life in which a holy God may be known, experienced and enjoyed.

John 10:10
10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.


Living among so many other moralistic believers, it took decades for me to figure this out.

(Continued in following post.)

Problem is that you are not accepting what the apostle John says in that we can have an assurance of knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments.

“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.” (1 John 2:3).

You basically claim you can experience and know God and not worry about obeying Him (i.e. keeping His commandments). But 1 John 2:4 says,

“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).

What truth is not in them?

Jesus.

For Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).
 
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Isilwen

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Problem is that you are not accepting what the apostle John says in that we can have an assurance of knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments.

“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.” (1 John 2:3).

You basically claim you can experience and know God and not worry about obeying Him (i.e. keeping His commandments). But 1 John 2:4 says,

“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).

What truth is not in them?

Jesus.

For Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

After having seen aiki post before, I am pretty sure in your zeal to be right, you missed that he is talking about keeping his commandments as well. He just didn't say those exact words and doesn't need to.
 
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Growing up within the Christian community as I did, I encountered many answers to the question, "What is the heart of Christianity?". Most commonly, I was told that the Christian life was about loving Jesus by living the way he said to live. And that way was a holy way, a moral way, a way of righteousness. As a younger man, I didn't understand that what I was hearing in this particular answer was only a half-truth and as such was not actually the truth. In fact, this view of the Christian life is what is known as Moralism and is actually quite devastating to true Christian living.

The main idea in Moralism is that the apex of the Christian life is holiness. What all Christians ought to shoot for is a life that is highly moral, free of sin and its fouling stain. Typically, on Moralism, this holy life is attained by "bearing down," by "committing to," by "discipline and determination," by "self-sacrifice and persistence." So, when I was told that, as a Christian, I ought to live a holy life, I was usually also told that doing so was accomplished by tremendous and costly self-effort.

But, it was simply my duty, my obligation, to "dig deep" and "live for Jesus." He had died for me, after all, and so, in return, I was obliged to sacrifice myself in pursuit of Christian living. And if I didn't, well, the yawning maw of hell waited to engulf me, as it would any who turned back from the great and holy work of living for Jesus.

In this thinking, three very spiritually-dangerous things - Moralism, self-effort, and fear - are bound up together, creating a "perfect storm" of faulty thinking that could only lead to frustration, compromise and hypocrisy in my walk with God. And they did.

Is righteousness the primary goal of the Christian life? No. It is merely the avenue, the means to, enjoying loving, rich fellowship with God.

Hebrews 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


In this verse, what is the purpose of living a holy, peaceful life? Is holiness an end in itself? NO! It is just the means by which the Christian believer may "see God." Is this verse speaking only of the heavenly hereafter? Or does Scripture tells us we may experience God - "see" Him - on this side of the grave, too?

The New Testament is bursting with verses that indicate that God is not just some happy future prospect we must wait 'til death to enjoy, but One with whom we may fellowship right now! The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, teaches us divine truth, and glorifies God within us (John 16:8-14); the Spirit strengthens us (Philippians 2:13; Romans 8:13; Ephesians 3:16); the Spirit produces in us spiritual "fruit" (Galatians 5:22-23); the Spirit transforms us into the likeness of Christ (2 Corinthians 3:18). And so on.

As the Holy Spirit works in us, we come to know God more, to understand Him better, and to enjoy deeper and deeper communion with Him. In this communion, this fellowship, with God there is incredible fulfillment, meaning, joy, love, peace and rest (John 14:27; Matthew 11:28-30; 1 John 4:16-19). It is this wonderful fellowship with God that is the end goal of our holy, Christ-centered living and is, actually, supposed to be the prime motivation for it.

1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.


2 Corinthians 13:14
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.


1 John 1:3
3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.


I lived for many years trying to be a holy man without ever truly knowing God and enjoying Him. Oh, I knew about God, I knew the facts of the Bible concerning God, but I didn't think I could actually experience God directly and personally on a regular basis. And so, I couldn't know Him for myself, like I would any in my social circle I called friend or family.

It was...very hard to stay motivated to live for such a distant figure I knew nothing of personally - and certainly didn't enjoy. But, I went through the motions, failing and compromising regularly, shouldering the burden of Christian living as a good soldier of Jesus Christ, though my heart yearned for - and often strayed into - other worldly, fleshly and unholy things.

I had adopted a very Moralistic approach to being a Christian, though, at the time, I'd never heard the term "Moralism." Live right. That was my goal as a Christian, which meant not doing things that were immoral. So, I went to church three or four times a week; I prayed over meals, before bed, and at Prayer Meeting on Wednesday evenings; I didn't go to the movie theater, or drink alcohol, or smoke, or listen to secular music; I didn't swear, or party or hang around with non-Christian people. I was - outwardly anyway - a good Christian guy. My moralistic thinking, though, had made me a Pharisee:

Matthew 15:7-8
7 "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
8 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.


This is where Moralism always ends up. And this is because it is working for the wrong thing entirely, and usually from the wrong power source and motive. The purpose of holy living isn't simply to be holy but to create a life in which a holy God may be known, experienced and enjoyed.

John 10:10
10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.


Living among so many other moralistic believers, it took decades for me to figure this out.

(Continued in following post.)

The problem in why Belief Alone Christians may sometimes discover that their actions may be duplicitous is that there is no real incentive to obeying. They believe they can sin and still be saved. So obedience to God is merely optional if one is saved by a belief alone in Jesus. Following the Lord and doing what He says is merely optional. But Jesus said, “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (See: Luke 6:46).
 
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Growing up within the Christian community as I did, I encountered many answers to the question, "What is the heart of Christianity?". Most commonly, I was told that the Christian life was about loving Jesus by living the way he said to live. And that way was a holy way, a moral way, a way of righteousness. As a younger man, I didn't understand that what I was hearing in this particular answer was only a half-truth and as such was not actually the truth. In fact, this view of the Christian life is what is known as Moralism and is actually quite devastating to true Christian living.

The main idea in Moralism is that the apex of the Christian life is holiness. What all Christians ought to shoot for is a life that is highly moral, free of sin and its fouling stain. Typically, on Moralism, this holy life is attained by "bearing down," by "committing to," by "discipline and determination," by "self-sacrifice and persistence." So, when I was told that, as a Christian, I ought to live a holy life, I was usually also told that doing so was accomplished by tremendous and costly self-effort.

But, it was simply my duty, my obligation, to "dig deep" and "live for Jesus." He had died for me, after all, and so, in return, I was obliged to sacrifice myself in pursuit of Christian living. And if I didn't, well, the yawning maw of hell waited to engulf me, as it would any who turned back from the great and holy work of living for Jesus.

In this thinking, three very spiritually-dangerous things - Moralism, self-effort, and fear - are bound up together, creating a "perfect storm" of faulty thinking that could only lead to frustration, compromise and hypocrisy in my walk with God. And they did.

Is righteousness the primary goal of the Christian life? No. It is merely the avenue, the means to, enjoying loving, rich fellowship with God.

Hebrews 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


In this verse, what is the purpose of living a holy, peaceful life? Is holiness an end in itself? NO! It is just the means by which the Christian believer may "see God." Is this verse speaking only of the heavenly hereafter? Or does Scripture tells us we may experience God - "see" Him - on this side of the grave, too?

The New Testament is bursting with verses that indicate that God is not just some happy future prospect we must wait 'til death to enjoy, but One with whom we may fellowship right now! The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, teaches us divine truth, and glorifies God within us (John 16:8-14); the Spirit strengthens us (Philippians 2:13; Romans 8:13; Ephesians 3:16); the Spirit produces in us spiritual "fruit" (Galatians 5:22-23); the Spirit transforms us into the likeness of Christ (2 Corinthians 3:18). And so on.

As the Holy Spirit works in us, we come to know God more, to understand Him better, and to enjoy deeper and deeper communion with Him. In this communion, this fellowship, with God there is incredible fulfillment, meaning, joy, love, peace and rest (John 14:27; Matthew 11:28-30; 1 John 4:16-19). It is this wonderful fellowship with God that is the end goal of our holy, Christ-centered living and is, actually, supposed to be the prime motivation for it.

1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.


2 Corinthians 13:14
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.


1 John 1:3
3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.


I lived for many years trying to be a holy man without ever truly knowing God and enjoying Him. Oh, I knew about God, I knew the facts of the Bible concerning God, but I didn't think I could actually experience God directly and personally on a regular basis. And so, I couldn't know Him for myself, like I would any in my social circle I called friend or family.

It was...very hard to stay motivated to live for such a distant figure I knew nothing of personally - and certainly didn't enjoy. But, I went through the motions, failing and compromising regularly, shouldering the burden of Christian living as a good soldier of Jesus Christ, though my heart yearned for - and often strayed into - other worldly, fleshly and unholy things.

I had adopted a very Moralistic approach to being a Christian, though, at the time, I'd never heard the term "Moralism." Live right. That was my goal as a Christian, which meant not doing things that were immoral. So, I went to church three or four times a week; I prayed over meals, before bed, and at Prayer Meeting on Wednesday evenings; I didn't go to the movie theater, or drink alcohol, or smoke, or listen to secular music; I didn't swear, or party or hang around with non-Christian people. I was - outwardly anyway - a good Christian guy. My moralistic thinking, though, had made me a Pharisee:

Matthew 15:7-8
7 "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
8 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.


This is where Moralism always ends up. And this is because it is working for the wrong thing entirely, and usually from the wrong power source and motive. The purpose of holy living isn't simply to be holy but to create a life in which a holy God may be known, experienced and enjoyed.

John 10:10
10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.


Living among so many other moralistic believers, it took decades for me to figure this out.

(Continued in following post.)
The heart of "Christianity" from Adam too now is to love God and our neighbor and have faith God will forgive us when we fail to do so.
 
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Bible Highlighter: What Isilwen said! Thanks, Isilwen!

I don't really see how Isilwen said anything substantial that refutes 1 John 2:3-4 or Luke 6:46. Can one be saved and not have Jesus as their Lord? Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema (accursed) (1 Corinthians 16:22).
 
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You basically claim you can experience and know God and not worry about obeying Him (i.e. keeping His commandments).

I wrote:

"Is righteousness the primary goal of the Christian life? No. It is merely the avenue, the means to, enjoying loving, rich fellowship with God.

Hebrews 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


In this verse, what is the purpose of living a holy, peaceful life? Is holiness an end in itself? NO! It is just the means by which the Christian believer may "see God."
"

"It is this wonderful fellowship with God that is the end goal of our holy, Christ-centered living..."

"This is where Moralism always ends up. And this is because it is working for the wrong thing entirely, and usually from the wrong power source and motive. The purpose of holy living isn't simply to be holy but to create a life in which a holy God may be known, experienced and enjoyed."

"God takes full responsibility for the transformation of me into a person in whom Christ is clearly manifested. Only God, after all, can make me godly."

"It takes divine power to live out a godly life..."

And so on.
 
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I don't really see how Isilwen said anything substantial that refutes 1 John 2:3-4 or Luke 6:46. Can one be saved and not have Jesus as their Lord? Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema (accursed) (1 Corinthians 16:22).

As usual, you completely missed the point. Which is typical!
 
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Neogaia777

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How about you? Have you discovered rest, joy, strength and change in living in constant submission to your Heavenly Father?

I am getting there I think, and getting closer and closer day by day I feel...

Some of what I posted to you are just some of the things I am working on and learning right now, etc...

Thanks!

God Bless!
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Bible Highlighter: What Isilwen said! Thanks, Isilwen!

Paul says we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16).
Did Jesus ever have a mind that justified the idea that He could sin and be in God's favor? No.
Yet, that is what we see in Christinaity today and it is sad.
 
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As usual, you completely missed the point. Which is typical!

And what point would that be? Does your point line up with the truth of 1 John 2:3-4?
If so, I would like to hear your thoughts on how you interpret 1 John 2:3-4. But my guess is that such a thing is not going to happen.
 
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