Who are the Overcomers?

Aussie Pete · Jan 19, 2021

I am indebted to the late Watchman Nee for my understanding. If anyone is interested, "The Glorious Church" is compelling reading on this subject. I can give only a slight outline as space and attention spans, is limited.

To be clear, I am speaking of those who overcome Satan as described in Revelation 12. There are those who overcome the world, which is by faith (1 John 5:4 & 5). There are other senses in which "overcome" is used of Christians, for example, overcoming evil with good. My argument applies only to those who overcome Satan.
Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who accuses them day and night before our God. They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."

1. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. It is obvious from some of the posts that many believers live under a cloud of guilt. This is sad for them and loss for the Kingdom of God. Guilt leaves the Christian weak spiritually and ineffective in spiritual warfare. Those who know the cleansing power of the precious blood confess their sin and get on with life. There is zero value in weeping or self tormenting over sin. God convicts us so that we can confess and get back on track.
2. The word of our testimony. We know that Satan is the liar and deceiver. He makes great claims about his power and is control over world events. If we know the word, we know that his boasting is empty. He is like a robber trying to hold up a bank with an imitation gun. If you know that it is imitation, you will refuse the robber's demands.

What we should be doing is declaring the victory, overcoming, power, majesty, glory and Lordship of Lord Jesus. After all, that is the truth and that is according to God's will and purpose. Romans 10:9 tells us that we should confess that Jesus is Lord verbally. Yes, we need to speak it out. How often? Daily at the very least. We should also remind Satan that he is defeated. Also that he brought about his own downfall because he crucified the innocent Man.
3. Not loving our lives to the point of death. Physical death is the lot of some Christians. However, there is another aspect of death that overcomers embrace. It is dying to self as they carry the cross daily. Few Christians understand what this means in reality. Carrying the cross is not trying to put up with your mother in law. It is denying the demands of independent self, even when they seem to be legitimate. It is putting God's will ahead of self will, even in seemingly trivial matters.

There is much more to say about the overcomers that I'll cover in another post. There has always been a need for overcomers to step up. Never more so than right now.

Mr. M · Jan 19, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
To be clear, I am speaking of those who overcome Satan

Those who truly are set free from the fear of death.

Hebrews 2:
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared
in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is,
the devil,
15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Revelation 2:
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.
Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes
shall not be hurt by the second death.

1 Corinthians 15:
54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of
the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

Aussie Pete · Jan 20, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
Those who truly are set free from the fear of death.

Hebrews 2:
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared
in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is,
the devil,
15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Revelation 2:
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.
Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes
shall not be hurt by the second death.

1 Corinthians 15:
54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of
the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

You miss my point. I'm talking specifically about how Satan will be cast down and by who. Every Christian has the victory. Not so many experience it.

Mr. M · Jan 20, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I'm talking specifically about how Satan will be cast down

Why do you say "will be cast down?"
The verse says "has been cast down".
Is it your understanding that Revelation 12 is still some future event? If so, isn't that eschatology?

Aussie Pete said:
There is much more to say about the overcomers that I'll cover in another post. There has always been a need for overcomers to step up. Never more so than right now.

Revelation chapters 2 and 3 speak promises to those who overcome, but does not specify Satan, though
he is mentioned 4 times. So that is also excluded from the topic?

mlepfitjw · Jan 20, 2021

Hello Aussie, you shared a lot of insight about overcoming, Satan, and the world.
You might find it interesting that I do not believe Satan is roaming around like a like a lion anymore. You might also remember scripture if God can be for us who can be against us?

It is ourselves that can oppose Gods will, many place the blame on the devil tempted me.

The thing about that is when you mentioned guilt. It is us who rummages those thoughts around our heads. Which we all have been guilty of, however the more spiritual built in Christ Jesus and deeply rooted in the love and forgiveness by experiencing the love of God.

The easier it becomes for believers to overcome the guilt, ridden shame once they look closely into the word of God as a mirror and remember who the old person they once was, and who the new person now is in Christ Jesus. Most if not all start out as babes in Christ, though we can become sons or daughters as we believe and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mr. M · Jan 20, 2021

Agallagher said:
Hello Aussie, you shared a lot of insight about overcoming, Satan, and the world.
You might find it interesting that I do not believe Satan is roaming around like a like a lion anymore. You might also remember scripture if God can be for us who can be against us?

It is ourselves that can oppose Gods will, many place the blame on the devil tempted me.

The thing about that is when you mentioned guilt. It is us who rummages those thoughts around our heads. Which we all have been guilty of, however the more spiritual built in Christ Jesus and deeply rooted in the love and forgiveness by experiencing the love of God.

The easier it becomes for believers to overcome the guilt, ridden shame once they look closely into the word of God as a mirror and remember who the old person they once was, and who the new person now is in Christ Jesus. Most if not all start out as babes in Christ, though we can become sons or daughters as we believe and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hi AG,
How do you comprehend this verse?
James 4:7. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

mlepfitjw · Jan 20, 2021

@Minister Monardo. Am up now. If you wanna use James 4:7, you can look at it simply as someone that may be accusing you, who may be trying to attack you, or harm you, or to belittle or besmirch you as a person.

People want to blame the devil for everything, ... You realize that sometimes we are our own worst enemies (James 1:12-15)? Also humans might hate you for no reason, even just as Jesus Christ was hated 'they hated him without cause' (John 15:25).

The devil, 'accuser', if you desire the correct term. You could say this about James 4:7 "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist any accuser (stand firm in faith, by spirit and truth of worshiping God) (Trust him), and he will flee from you."

God bless and have great day!

Mr. M · Jan 20, 2021

Agallagher said:
Hi minister, not answering any questions right now, God bless.

That's fine. Just trying to find some scriptural basis for your posts. Maybe someday....

fhansen · Jan 20, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I am indebted to the late Watchman Nee for my understanding. If anyone is interested, "The Glorious Church" is compelling reading on this subject. I can give only a slight outline as space and attention spans, is limited.

To be clear, I am speaking of those who overcome Satan as described in Revelation 12. There are those who overcome the world, which is by faith (1 John 5:4 & 5). There are other senses in which "overcome" is used of Christians, for example, overcoming evil with good. My argument applies only to those who overcome Satan.
Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who accuses them day and night before our God. They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."

1. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. It is obvious from some of the posts that many believers live under a cloud of guilt. This is sad for them and loss for the Kingdom of God. Guilt leaves the Christian weak spiritually and ineffective in spiritual warfare. Those who know the cleansing power of the precious blood confess their sin and get on with life. There is zero value in weeping or self tormenting over sin. God convicts us so that we can confess and get back on track.
2. The word of our testimony. We know that Satan is the liar and deceiver. He makes great claims about his power and is control over world events. If we know the word, we know that his boasting is empty. He is like a robber trying to hold up a bank with an imitation gun. If you know that it is imitation, you will refuse the robber's demands.

What we should be doing is declaring the victory, overcoming, power, majesty, glory and Lordship of Lord Jesus. After all, that is the truth and that is according to God's will and purpose. Romans 10:9 tells us that we should confess that Jesus is Lord verbally. Yes, we need to speak it out. How often? Daily at the very least. We should also remind Satan that he is defeated. Also that he brought about his own downfall because he crucified the innocent Man.
3. Not loving our lives to the point of death. Physical death is the lot of some Christians. However, there is another aspect of death that overcomers embrace. It is dying to self as they carry the cross daily. Few Christians understand what this means in reality. Carrying the cross is not trying to put up with your mother in law. It is denying the demands of independent self, even when they seem to be legitimate. It is putting God's will ahead of self will, even in seemingly trivial matters.

There is much more to say about the overcomers that I'll cover in another post. There has always been a need for overcomers to step up. Never more so than right now.

A primary mark of a believer is one who’s overcome sin, by the love that’s been poured into His heart by the Spirit. Unless for that overcoming, even as it involves time and struggle, the person hasn’t really taken our Lord and His sacrifice very seriously at all.

Jesusthekingofking · Jan 21, 2021

fhansen said:
A primary mark of a believer is one who’s overcome sin, by the love that’s been poured into His heart by the Spirit. Unless for that overcoming, even as it involves time and struggle, the person hasn’t really taken our Lord and His sacrifice very seriously at all.

Yes, fighting sin is the fruit of the Spirit, but can we be perfect in this life? When Jesus speak about sinning the standard is very high, as if no one can attain it. So for those who already accepted Christ, what is expected from Him?

fhansen · Jan 21, 2021

Jesusthekingofking said:
Yes, fighting sin is the fruit of the Spirit, but can we be perfect in this life? When Jesus speak about sinning the standard is very high, as if no one can attain it. So for those who already accepted Christ, what is expected from Him?

Again, to overcome sin, for one thing, by the Spirit. If we're not overcoming sin does it really make sense to call ourselves friends of Christ, children of God? Let Him decide at the end of the day how well we did with the gift of Himself that we've been given. It can be a struggle-and so be it. We reap what we sow- sow to the Spirit and not the flesh. If perfection isn't attainable in this life then He can put the finishing touches on as we finally come to meet and know Him "face to face". Meanwhile we must at least be well on that road to perfection, not straying far back off of it and remaining away, in the flesh.

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

"Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness. But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:4-8

Jesus is YHWH · Jan 21, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
Why do you say "will be cast down?"
The verse says "has been cast down".
Is it your understanding that Revelation 12 is still some future event? If so, isn't that eschatology?

Revelation chapters 2 and 3 speak promises to those who overcome, but does not specify Satan, though
he is mentioned 4 times. So that is also excluded from the topic?

are you a preterist ?

Jesus is YHWH · Jan 21, 2021

Agallagher said:
Hello Aussie, you shared a lot of insight about overcoming, Satan, and the world.
You might find it interesting that I do not believe Satan is roaming around like a like a lion anymore. You might also remember scripture if God can be for us who can be against us?

It is ourselves that can oppose Gods will, many place the blame on the devil tempted me.

The thing about that is when you mentioned guilt. It is us who rummages those thoughts around our heads. Which we all have been guilty of, however the more spiritual built in Christ Jesus and deeply rooted in the love and forgiveness by experiencing the love of God.

The easier it becomes for believers to overcome the guilt, ridden shame once they look closely into the word of God as a mirror and remember who the old person they once was, and who the new person now is in Christ Jesus. Most if not all start out as babes in Christ, though we can become sons or daughters as we believe and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

so where is satan and demons now ?

do they no longer exist ?

if they do where are they ?

Mr. M · Jan 21, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
are you a preterist ?

I have no idea. I just do not believe Satan has access to the throne of God to accuse us any
longer. He is an earthbound prince of this world, who is defeated and has no authority over a
believer who resists him. Whether they know it or not, people of the world serve him. Any
believer who allows worldly wisdom into their comprehension of scripture remains under his
influence. This is why Paul taught:
Romans 12:2. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing
of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

mlepfitjw · Jan 21, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
so where is satan and demons now ?

do they no longer exist ?

if they do where are they ?

The bible suggest they go some place, I believe. Though can't remember the scripture that says, all I know is that the Lord Jesus Christ defeated Satan, and all his minions on Cross. Then the revelation speaks more about where they go (maybe?). Lake of Fire or something? You'll have to go and search scriptures for your answer. Hope this helps, brother in Christ Jesus.

Jesus is YHWH · Jan 21, 2021

Agallagher said:
The bible suggest they go some place, I believe. Though can't remember the scripture that says, all I know is that the Lord Jesus Christ defeated Satan, and all his minions on Cross. Then the revelation speaks more about where they go (maybe?). Lake of Fire or something? You'll have to go and search scriptures for your answer. Hope this helps, brother in Christ Jesus.

Jesus defeated death and sin well.

Do you sin ?

Will you die ?

fhansen · Jan 21, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
Jesus defeated death and sin well.

Do you sin ?

Will you die ?

Jesus conquered sin and death so we no longer have to sin and die.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." 1 John 1:7

Jesusthekingofking · Jan 21, 2021

fhansen said:
Again, to overcome sin, for one thing, by the Spirit. If we're not overcoming sin does it really make sense to call ourselves friends of Christ, children of God? Let Him decide at the end of the day how well we did with the gift of Himself that we've been given. It can be a struggle-and so be it. We reap what we sow- sow to the Spirit and not the flesh. If perfection isn't attainable in this life then He can put the finishing touches on as we finally come to meet and know Him "face to face". Meanwhile we must at least be well on that road to perfection, not straying far back off of it and remaining away, in the flesh.

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

"Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness. But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:4-8

sounds like law to me, how to you explain that? I thought we fulfilled the law because Jesus fulfilled it.

grafted branch · Jan 21, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I am indebted to the late Watchman Nee for my understanding. If anyone is interested, "The Glorious Church" is compelling reading on this subject. I can give only a slight outline as space and attention spans, is limited.

To be clear, I am speaking of those who overcome Satan as described in Revelation 12. There are those who overcome the world, which is by faith (1 John 5:4 & 5). There are other senses in which "overcome" is used of Christians, for example, overcoming evil with good. My argument applies only to those who overcome Satan.
Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who accuses them day and night before our God. They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."

1. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. It is obvious from some of the posts that many believers live under a cloud of guilt. This is sad for them and loss for the Kingdom of God. Guilt leaves the Christian weak spiritually and ineffective in spiritual warfare. Those who know the cleansing power of the precious blood confess their sin and get on with life. There is zero value in weeping or self tormenting over sin. God convicts us so that we can confess and get back on track.
2. The word of our testimony. We know that Satan is the liar and deceiver. He makes great claims about his power and is control over world events. If we know the word, we know that his boasting is empty. He is like a robber trying to hold up a bank with an imitation gun. If you know that it is imitation, you will refuse the robber's demands.

What we should be doing is declaring the victory, overcoming, power, majesty, glory and Lordship of Lord Jesus. After all, that is the truth and that is according to God's will and purpose. Romans 10:9 tells us that we should confess that Jesus is Lord verbally. Yes, we need to speak it out. How often? Daily at the very least. We should also remind Satan that he is defeated. Also that he brought about his own downfall because he crucified the innocent Man.
3. Not loving our lives to the point of death. Physical death is the lot of some Christians. However, there is another aspect of death that overcomers embrace. It is dying to self as they carry the cross daily. Few Christians understand what this means in reality. Carrying the cross is not trying to put up with your mother in law. It is denying the demands of independent self, even when they seem to be legitimate. It is putting God's will ahead of self will, even in seemingly trivial matters.

There is much more to say about the overcomers that I'll cover in another post. There has always been a need for overcomers to step up. Never more so than right now.

Hi Aussie Pete,

Did Watchman Nee address the beast that overcomes<3528> the saints in Revelation 13:7?

In Revelation 12:3 John see a dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns. In verse 11 they overcome<3528> the dragon by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. In Revelation 13:2 the dragon gives his power, seat, and authority to the beast. If the dragon can be overcome, then no matter what type of power, seat, or authority he has given to the beast in Revelation 13:2, this beast can also be overcome the same way.

It doesn’t seem likely to me that the saints can overcome<3528> the dragon/beast while simultaneously the dragon/beast overcomes<3528> the saints.

What are your thoughts on this?

mlepfitjw · Jan 21, 2021

Jesus is YHWH said:
Jesus defeated death and sin well.

Do you sin ?

Will you die ?

No further questions will be answered after this post. The Lord Jesus Christ defeated Satan, Death, Hell, and Sin. Do I sin? Yes when I fail to love God, and when I fail to love others. 1 John 1:8 If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth.

Romans 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. May the grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

If this has not happened yet for you in your life, then I have no idea what to tell you. (In my view of all scripture completed) Satan has been crushed for all people. Now it is up to them whether or not they desire to place trust in God, or remain and unbeliever.

From Ephesians 6:
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. We see that people wrestle against the World, and spiritual wickedness in high places.

We wrestle against the world, and spiritual wickedness in high places but it doesn't mention satan or the devil here in this verse. Maybe the spiritual wickedness of because of people misusing or being crafty with the word of God.

2 Corinthians 4:2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Yes I am absolutely going to die in this world, one day. The hour is unknown and so is the day, only the Father in heaven does.

God bless, hope this helps once again, no more questions will be answered.

Who are the Overcomers?

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