Does turning my lights on violate the sabbath?

DamianWarS · Jan 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Tell me dear friend do you practice what you preach here? Do you keep the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment and do everything your telling others to do? I am genuinely interested?

I don't "preach" that we should keep the letter of the law. The OP is clear on that. What I am saying is subscribing to man-powered systems on the Sabbath is in violation of the letter of the law. I also am not telling anyone to do anything, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the system.

DamianWarS · Jan 20, 2021

.Mikha'el. said:
I don't get what "man-powered systems" has to do with anything.

Read the law yourself. It is just not concerned with what you do, but also how you cause others to work. When we are only concerned about ourselves and say "I'm not Joe Electric's keeper" we have already missed the point of the Sabbath.

.Mikha'el. · Jan 20, 2021

DamianWarS said:
Read the law yourself. It is just not concerned with what you do, but also how you cause others to work. When we are only concerned about ourselves and say "I'm not Joe Electric's keeper" we have already missed the point of the Sabbath.

You and I see things very differently then, and that is okay. The problem with your argument as I see it is that not one person employed by your local power company will get to rest for even a moment more than normal because you don't use any electricity over that period. If it's not you, it's going to be someone else. It doesn't make any practical difference whatsoever. But if it makes you feel better, then be my guest.

DamianWarS · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
to be honest I don't see hypocrisy in anyone's posts here and if i did wouldn't be my place to judge. The holy spirit convicts, not our place

I'm not calling out personal hypocrisy but hypocrisy of the system of keeping the letter of the law in a modern Western context. Personal hypocrisy starts in the heart and I don't know the motivations of others to claim that unless they come right out and say it.

DamianWarS · Jan 20, 2021

.Mikha'el. said:
You and I see things very differently then, and that is okay. The problem with your argument as I see it is that not one person employed by your local power company will get to rest for even a moment more than normal because you don't use any electricity over that period. If it's not you, it's going to be someone else. It doesn't make any practical difference whatsoever. But if it makes you feel better, then be my guest.

If keeping the letter of the sabbath is important then this is a poor excuse.

Ultimately we have no control of what others do but we do have control in how we support these systems. If we don't do things like go to restaurants or amusement parks because of engaging in the workforce then why stay plugged in if the use is non-essential and drives man-powered systems? That's a logic problem.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 20, 2021

DamianWarS said:
I don't "preach" that we should keep the letter of the law. The OP is clear on that. What I am saying is subscribing to man-powered systems on the Sabbath is in violation of the letter of the law. I also am not telling anyone to do anything, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the system.

So here you are, breaking God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath, of the 10 commandments which gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4, while preaching to others who love God and keep His Sabbath on how they should keep the Sabbath when you do not even keep it yourself? It seems to me with your rules and reasoning you do not understand the Spirit of the Sabbath and why the Sabbath was made for mankind.

According to the scriptures, the Scribes and Pharisees did not understand the Spirit of the Sabbath in the days of Jesus when they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath when he did not conform to their teachings surrounding the Sabbath. Little did they know they were speaking to the creator and Lord of the Sabbath who made the Sabbath for man not man for the Sabbath like they were trying to teach those around them.

According to the scriptures no one dear friend keeps the Spirit of the law by breaking the law. It is the Spirit of the law that enables us to love God and to obey God's law *Romans 8:4; John 14:15; John 15:10; 1 John 5:3-4 though faith Romans 3:31; Galatians 5:16. If we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20. The scripture teach in Hebrews 10:26-27 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 if God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we reject it in order to continue in known unrepentant sin we will not enter into God's kingdom because those who say they know God while practicing sin are not being truthful and do no know God *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6.

Some other scriptures worth considering...

Romans 2:21-23 [21], You therefore which teach another, teach you not yourself? you that preach a man should not steal, do you steal? [22], You that say a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? you that abhor idols, do you commit sacrilege? [23], You that make your boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor you God?

Are you not worried that your judging others and you do not even keep the law you have come here to talk about?

Something to pray about.

DamianWarS · Jan 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Are you not worried that your judging others and you do not even keep the law you have come here to talk about?

I'm not judging others as that would require me to know their hearts, but I am calling out the limits of a system they may be trying to keep. It is up to you to determine if participation in non-essential manpower systems during the sabbath can still keep the letter of the law. There is no double standard here, mow your lawn on the sabbath or don't but Sabbath rest is still available to you and mowing your lawn has nothing to do with it. I am not rejecting your ability to part take in the sabbath but I am pointing out that modern western living is incompatible with the letter of the sabbath. If keeping the letter of the sabbath is a high priority for you and you part-take of non-essential manpower systems during the sabbath then this is a problem you're going to have to reconcile. you may do that by sweeping it under the rug or you may address it head-on but what actions it leads you to is determined by you.

I value the sabbath as a day of rest, but I recognize how the letter of the law has its limits and my use of non-essential man-powered systems means I am unable to keep the letter of the law but that's ok as keeping the letter of the law is not my goal. I know what the sabbath points to and I look to that, not the law.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 20, 2021

DamianWarS said:
I'm not judging others as that would require me to know their hearts, but I am calling out the limits of a system they may be trying to keep. It is up to you to determine if participation in non-essential manpower systems during the sabbath can still keep the letter of the law. There is no double standard here, mow your lawn on the sabbath or don't but Sabbath rest is still available to you and mowing your lawn has nothing to do with it. I am not rejecting your ability to part take in the sabbath but I am pointing out that modern western living is incompatible with the letter of the sabbath. If keeping the letter of the sabbath is a high priority for you and you part-take of non-essential manpower systems during the sabbath then this is a problem you're going to have to reconcile. you may do that by sweeping it under the rug or you may address it head-on but what actions it leads you to is determined by you.

I value the sabbath as a day of rest, but I recognize how the letter of the law has its limits and my use of non-essential man-powered systems means I am unable to keep the letter of the law but that's ok as keeping the letter of the law is not my goal. I know what the sabbath points to and I look to that, not the law.

It's not just a day of rest, it's also to be kept Holy.

8“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The Sabbath is a sign between God and His people

Exodus 31
13 "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

It's also a sign of sanctification Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

How we are to enjoy the Sabbath:

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Mathew12:11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other.

The Sabbath was made for everyone:
Mark 2:27 Jesus said "27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."

What you are doing is confusing where it says not to kindle a fire on Sabbath which takes considerable amount of work and turning into justification in your own mind that you can't kept the letter of the law at all because you turn on a light switch. I don't think anyone is going to be able to understand the spiritual side to Sabbath keeping unless you are a Sabbath keeper. You admit you are not, so I am not sure the point of preaching to Sabbath keepers about Sabbath keeping . Again, its like someone preaching gospel on raising children when they don't have any. God bless

guevaraj · Jan 20, 2021

imge said:
It's not just a day of rest, it's also to be kept Holy.

Sister, what does it mean for God to make a time "holy"? What does the Bible show about the following two places? Do we keep the Sabbath "holy" in Israel from "evening" to "evening"? Do we keep the Sabbath "holy" in Eden from "morning" to "morning"? How is the Sabbath kept "holy" in the United States, given what the Bible shows about the previous two places?

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did. (1 John 2:1-6 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

imge said:
It's not just a day of rest, it's also to be kept Holy.

8“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The Sabbath is a sign between God and His people

Exodus 31
13 "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

It's also a sign of sanctification Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

How we are to enjoy the Sabbath:

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Mathew12:11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other.

The Sabbath was made for everyone:
Mark 2:27 Jesus said "27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."

What you are doing is confusing where it says not to kindle a fire on Sabbath which takes considerable amount of work and turning into justification in your own mind that you can't kept the letter of the law at all because you turn on a light switch. I don't think anyone is going to be able to understand the spiritual side to Sabbath keeping unless you are a Sabbath keeper. You admit you are not, so I am not sure the point of preaching to Sabbath keepers about Sabbath keeping . Again, its like someone preaching gospel on raising children when they don't have any. God bless

I was a Sabbath keeper though so I do have some understanding. But keeping it in a strictly old testament way didn't work for me so I changed my way of keeping it to making it a day of rest and relaxation , not paying bills, doing housework, shopping etc then but just resting and doing activities which aren't work.

For people who work full time I guess Sabbath for them is abstaining from going to work.

We all keep it differently and that's ok because when Jesus comes back everyone will keep it His way

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

I try to please God best I can but when I fail I know the blood of Jesus has me covered if I repent and admit I can't do it myself.

We can only keep Shabbat with His help

SabbathBlessings · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
I was a Sabbath keeper though so I do have some understanding. But keeping it in a strictly old testament way didn't work for me so I changed my way of keeping it to making it a day of rest and relaxation , not paying bills, doing housework, shopping etc then but just resting and doing activities which aren't work.

For people who work full time I guess Sabbath for them is abstaining from going to work.

We all keep it differently and that's ok because when Jesus comes back everyone will keep it His way

I think its important to let God define how He wants His Sabbath to be kept. Keeping it a Holy day to me means more than just a day off from work and resting, although I do agree that is part of it. The Bible also talks about the importance of knowing God. I think there is a direct correlation on knowing God and keeping His Sabbath Holy, the 4th commandment. It's a day of remembrance, sacred, the day God Blessed. I like to go to church, read the bible, bible studies and spend time in prayer on His Sabbath day. This day is about God and honoring Him.

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

imge said:
I think its important to let God define how He wants His Sabbath to be kept. Keeping it a Holy day to me means more than just a day off from work and resting, although I do agree that is part of it. The Bible also talks about the importance of knowing God. I think there is a direct correlation on knowing God and keeping His Sabbath Holy, the 4th commandment. It's a day of remembrance, sacred, the day God Blessed. I like to go to church, read the bible, bible studies and spend time in prayer on His Sabbath day. This day is about God and honoring Him.

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

I can't go to church in the Sabbath because my church has no Saturday services so I go Sunday instead.

I don't consider resting to be about pleasure but about need for the body after a hard week of duty.the Sabbath is for us not God.

Also I need to sleep loads by the end of the week as my week is taken up for medical appointments and treatments and it is tiring sometimes. I have the week to do things and Saturday is time to be alone with God just doing life with Him at a gentler pace. maybe reading a novel or the Bible, playing with my pets, doing my nails etc

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

But I think it is different for the individual. I mean, we are to love God and love our neighbour and fulfil His commandments that way. Jesus is the Way to salvation and we have that if we been born again.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
But I think it is different for the individual. I mean, we are to love God and love our neighbour and fulfil His commandments that way. Jesus is the Way to salvation and we have that if we been born again.

The Bible is pretty clear about the Sabbath. It's referenced over 170 times. I do think a lot of people like to use their own interpretations to fit their lifestyle, but the passages on keeping His Sabbath Holy is pretty spelled out. The Bible is also clear on how love is defined: Jesus said John 14:15 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. And 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. So it's not just about loving Him and doing your own will, that seems pretty clear by these passages.

Jesus kept the Sabbath and all of Gods commandments and also said He never came to abolish the law. We are told to follow Jesus as our example and He kept Sabbath. Luke 4:16 16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

Sabbath is not just for God and Jesus made a point when He said Mark 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Sabbath is made for man = all.

Because God gave us free will, that is not going to change when we get to Heaven. If you do not want to keep Sabbath on this earth, why would we want to on the New Earth? Might be something to pray about.

66:23
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

The Bible does show there are people who will keep His commandments until the end. Obeying God is showing our love and we do so out of love, not because we have to. The Sabbath is a such a blessing and I look forward to it every week. I am not perfect and I sin, but I keep getting back up and try to do better and ask for His help to keep His commandments and the Jesus promises a Helper so we can keep them. John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Revelations 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Revelations 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

It isn't a choice

In my country there aren't many churches which do Saturday services and with my disability it isn't option for me to travel

I want to obey God with all my heart and you can see that from my comments!

I prayed about the Sabbath and felt the Spirit tell me Jesus is my Sabbath and use that day to rest in Him

It IS burdensome for me to switch my fridge off as I need to keep medicines cool and I need my oxygen tank to be connected to the electricity.

I accept that Sabbath keeping gives an extra blessing to those who keep it and your reward in heaven will be greater than mine but I'm not gonna worry about it

As this isn't a salvation issue I choose not to debate this further

God bless you

SabbathBlessings · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
It isn't a choice

In my country there aren't many churches which do Saturday services and with my disability it isn't option for me to travel

I want to obey God with all my heart and you can see that from my comments!

I prayed about the Sabbath and felt the Spirit tell me Jesus is my Sabbath and use that day to rest in Him

It IS burdensome for me to switch my fridge off as I need to keep medicines cool and I need my oxygen tank to be connected to the electricity.

I accept that Sabbath keeping gives an extra blessing to those who keep it and your reward in heaven will be greater than mine but I'm not gonna worry about it

As this isn't a salvation issue I choose not to debate this further

God bless you

I do not think you need to switch your refrigerator off to keep His day Holy. That actually seems like more work.

Salvation is a gift from God. We will all have to answer to Him one day and the best thing we can do is keep praying and ask for His will for our life. God wants us to be happy and I think there are a lot of people who are under the impression when we give our will over to God, we are no longer happy, but from my experience, it is quite the opposite.

Also, with COVID a lot of Sabbath churches are offering online services. One of my favorites it AmazingFacts.com There is a huge library of sermons.

God bless

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

imge said:
I do not think you need to switch your refrigerator off to keep His day Holy.

Salvation is a gift from God. We will all have to answer to Him one day and the best thing we can do is keep praying and ask for His will for our life. God wants us to be happy and I think there are a lot of people who are under the impression when we give our will over to God, we are no longer happy, but from my experience, it is quite the opposite. God bless

So can't I just keep the Sabbath as am doing? Resting and spending time alone with God going for nature walks, painting, reading, worship music etc??

None of those things are forbidden in bible??None

also our status as children of God is secure so why do I have to start going to a Saturday church

it isn't about refusing to obey God it is that I cant!

I don't live in a country where they have many saturday churches

I am s seriously ill and disabled and this isn't. A lifestyle issue

. My nearest SDA church is 3 hours awayADS

It isn't about choice or happiness

We are not under the law to be saved

we are saved already and sealed in God

what's the worst that will happen to me if I don't keep the shabbat? N othing!

and I asked those in my church how to keep the Sabbath and they told me self care and resting I am pleasing God

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

I can't drive 3 hours on a saturday! That is more than a Sabbath day journey

Nope. Not doing it.

am done

Goodbye .

This isn't for me

God is all forgiving

He doesn't mind

SabbathBlessings · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
So can't I just keep the Sabbath as am doing? Resting and spending time alone with God going for nature walks, painting, reading, worship music etc??

None of those things are forbidden in bible??None

also our status as children of God is secure so why do I have to start going to a Saturday church

it isn't about refusing to obey God it is that I cant!

I don't live in a country where they have many saturday churches

I am s seriously ill and disabled and this isn't. A lifestyle issue

. My nearest SDA church is 3 hours awayADS

It isn't about choice or happiness

We are not under the law to be saved

we are saved already and sealed in God

what's the worst that will happen to me if I don't keep the shabbat? N othing!

and I asked those in my church how to keep the Sabbath and they told me self care and resting I am pleasing God

We are saved because of Gods grace, but we keep the law because we love Him and He asked.

Does turning my lights on violate the sabbath?

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an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

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