Does turning my lights on violate the sabbath?

Junia

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I'm not talking about essential services (like hospitals to keep respirators working) but non-essential things like an alarm clock, television, microwave, lights in your home, a fridge, etc.... If all Christians stop consuming non-essential power during the sabbath it would decrease the demand quite a bit (because we are many) and those industries that provide power would take notice. in the end it would have a product of fewer people needing to work on the Sabbath and would start driving a different sort of demand, a demand to rest. you are welcome to practice the sabbath how you feel you should but don't pretend that your non-essential consumption doesn't increase a demand for people to work on the day you are resting.
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Fridge isn't non essential. Food drink and medicine will spoil if you switch fridge off.
 
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Junia

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Personally, I take no issue with turning on lights. I take the instruction against not lighting a fire to literally mean just that.

Same here. And things like phones, computer etc we can just switch them off, unplug the tv etc...
 
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Junia

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Right, so as long as you import that power into your gates then it doesn't matter how they make it right? They could be burning aborted babbies to generate power but because it's beyond your feild of vision it's not your responsibility. I think you've missed the point of the Sabbath. Perhaps you should start shopping within your own gates to get power and see what it takes flick the lights on.

They aren't though. This is just like the argument that no one should get a vaccin because decades ago someone aborted a baby to make one. I would not refuse a vaccine over something that happened decades ago ! Same with this argument. I respect others beliefs in these issues but I honestly don't feel troubled in my conscience for having my fridge freezer or heating on over Shabbat.
 
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DamianWarS

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Fridge isn't non essential. Food drink and medicine will spoil if you switch fridge off.
We don't require cold food storage to sustain our bodies and through diligent planning you could arrange to empty your fridge by Friday so that it may be unplugged for the sabbath. Not so your fridge may have rest (which is silly) but so you contribute essential demand only to the power grid non non-essential.

Some medicine also require to be refrigerated but I suspect most are of sickness we don't have yet and for non-life threating illnesses. Our culture likes to hoard a lot of things and we call this living essential which this is a modern Western phenomenon. Most of the world lives on far less and don't have demands to store food as westerns seem to think they need. I live a community where probably half of the people own fridges yet somehow they survive.

We have created a demand that is convenience driven and have called it essential living which is untrue. If we are to take the letter of the law seriously we would be more mindful our consumption through the week so that our we can be further unplugged on the sabbath. When the Israelites collected too much manna it spoiled, so spoiled food is not the issue and we are smart enough to live Sunday to Friday on cold food storage but allow the sabbath to be free of this

one point of the OP is to highlight that our western demand of living makes keeping the letter of the sabbath non sustainable and calling a fridge essential is a perfect example. Is is essential in a western vacuum but we have control over how we live and how we subscribe to western systems (The other point of the OP is that this is not a problem and we can still get Sabbath rest even when we use our fridges to keep last night's supper)
 
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Junia

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We don't require cold food storage to sustain our bodies and through diligent planning you could arrange to empty your fridge by Friday so that it may be unplugged for the sabbath. Not so your fridge may have rest (which is silly) but so you contribute essential demand only to the power grid non non-essential.

Some medicine also require to be refrigerated but I suspect most are of sickness we don't have yet and for non-life threating illnesses. Our culture likes to hoard a lot of things and we call this living essential which this is a modern Western phenomenon. Most of the world lives on far less and don't have demands to store food as westerns seem to think they need. I live a community where probably half of the people own fridges yet somehow they survive.

We have created a demand that is convenience driven and have called it essential living which is untrue. If we are to take the letter of the law seriously we would be more mindful our consumption through the week so that our we can be further unplugged on the sabbath. When the Israelites collected too much manna it spoiled, so spoiled food is not the issue and we are smart enough to live Sunday to Friday on cold food storage but allow the sabbath to be free of this

one point of the OP is to highlight that our western demand of living makes keeping the letter of the sabbath non sustainable and calling a fridge essential is a perfect example. Is is essential in a western vacuum but we have control over how we live and how we subscribe to western systems (The other point of the OP is that this is not a problem and we can still get Sabbath rest even when we use our fridges to keep last night's supper)


Wow you make a lot of assumptions . My medicine is for life threatening conditions and also I do need to keep good for myself and my livestock fresh. I can only access supermarket once a week.as am disabled and can't shop every day....also I am busy on Sundays with church and cannot shop then


But maybe for you you can live like this which is fine


But I don't see why everyone else has to it they don't feel any conviction over it


It isn't a salvation issue and am sure God is ok with someone keeping a fridge running
 
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DamianWarS

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Wow you make a lot of assumptions . My medicine is for life threatening conditions and also I do need to keep good for myself and my livestock fresh. I can only access supermarket once a week.as am disabled and can't shop every day....also I am busy on Sundays with church and cannot shop then


But maybe for you you can live like this which is fine


But I don't see why everyone else has to it they don't feel any conviction over it


It isn't a salvation issue and am sure God is ok with someone keeping a fridge running
My broad assumptions are for the broad population and I was not aware your remarks were regarding a personal case which would have course have to be made more clear otherwise I can only remark broadly. The OP is about non-essential use and it was never about essential use. You are going to have to figure out how you fit in to that. The OP is also quite clear that even though the letter of the sabbath is not obtainable through our modern living, sabbath rest still is. You're also right God isn't concerned about if our fridges are running but this doesn't mean that using non-essential man-powered systems on the Sabbath is not in violation of the letter of the law.

We fight to keep systems alive but make vast amount of exceptions so we may keep our modern living. Because of this the letter of the sabbath in modern Western living is not sustainable. I'm just calling that out and if that offends you it is not a personal attack it is an attack of the hypocrisy we have bought into that doesn't actually help us but rather hinders us. God's rest is available to you even if you work on the Sabbath or are plugged into man-powered systems on the Sabbath.
 
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Junia

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My broad assumptions are for the broad population and I was not aware your remarks were regarding a personal case which would have course have to be made more clear otherwise I can only remark broadly. The OP is about non-essential use and it was never about essential use. You are going to have to figure out how you fit in to that. The OP is also quite clear that even though the letter of the sabbath is not obtainable through our modern living, sabbath rest still is. You're also right God isn't concerned about if our fridges are running but this doesn't mean that using non-essential man-powered systems on the Sabbath is not in violation of the letter of the law.

We fight to keep systems alive but make vast amount of exceptions so we may keep our modern living. Because of this the letter of the sabbath in modern Western living is not sustainable. I'm just calling that out and if that offends you it is not a personal attack it is an attack of the hypocrisy we have bought into that doesn't actually help us but rather hinders us. God's rest is available to you even if you work in the Sabbath or are plugged into man-powered systems on the Sabbath.


Fair enough


Not offended ezactly. More triggered as am trying to deconstruct from the legalism I lived under in Hebrew roots and other movements. And that is my responsibility not yours or anyones. I have responsibility done all away or disengage

I decided a while back to give up Shabbat keeping inn the traditional way and to management as a day of rest literally. Lots of relaxation , sleep, only do restful activities. No sorting out finances, paying bills , shopping, limited social media, phone calls etc, just about rest for the mind and body

Because Sabbath was made for us. As a gift, a privilege to observe.. Not a must do or God will get mad....I enjoy Shabbat much more now!!!
 
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DamianWarS

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They aren't though. This is just like the argument that no one should get a vaccin because decades ago someone aborted a baby to make one. I would not refuse a vaccine over something that happened decades ago ! Same with this argument. I respect others beliefs in these issues but I honestly don't feel troubled in my conscience for having my fridge freezer or heating on over Shabbat.
The point is we would not buy power if it is generated in a manner that violates our morals (not 10 years ago but today). If you don't like aborted babies then pretend it's child labour or a lying machine that generates power with every lie. If we would refuse to subscribe to a system that violates our morals why do we call working on the Sabbath wrong yet subscribe to man-powered systems on the Sabbath to sustain our non-essential needs? That is hypocrisy that this thread is clear no one is interested in fixing or even admitting to it.
 
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DamianWarS

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Fair enough


Not offended ezactly. More triggered as am trying to deconstruct from the legalism I lived under in Hebrew roots and other movements. And that is my responsibility not yours or anyones. I have responsibility done all away or disengage

I decided a while back to give up Shabbat keeping inn the traditional way and to management as a day of rest literally. Lots of relaxation , sleep, only do restful activities. No sorting out finances, paying bills , shopping, limited social media, phone calls etc, just about rest for the mind and body

Because Sabbath was made for us. As a gift, a privilege to observe.. Not a must do or God will get mad....I enjoy Shabbat much more now!!!
I know it feels like I am anti sabbath but that's not true at all. I take time with my family and have a day of rest because I value the sabbath. I do it to honor God not keep a system, but I also know I cannot keep that system. (According to the letter)
 
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Junia

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The point is we would not buy power if it is generated in a manner that violates our morals (not 10 years ago but today). If you don't like aborted babies then pretend it's child labour or a lying machine that generates power with every lie. If we would refuse to subscribe to a system that violates our morals why do we call working on the Sabbath wrong yet subscribe to man-powered systems on the Sabbath to sustain our non-essential needs? That is hypocrisy that this thread is clear no one is interested in fixing or even admitting to it.


Non essential needs would be things like having your tv, computer, phone plugged in. You can unplug them. Simple enough. That is easy and doesn't cost any hardship to ourselves. THus ensuring a day of rest and ease
 
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DamianWarS

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Personally, I take no issue with turning on lights. I take the instruction against not lighting a fire to literally mean just that.
I take no issue with it either but lighting a fire has nothing to do with it. It is about subscribing to man-powered systems during the Sabbath. You need to figure out if your goal is keeping the letter of the sabbath or not.
 
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Junia

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I know it feels like I am anti sabbath but that's not true at all. I take time with my family and have a day of rest because I value the sabbath. I do it to honor God not keep a system, but I also know I cannot keep that system. (According to the letter)
I

I didn't get the impression You were anti Sabbath at all. We can't keep it so let's just rely on God's grace and focus on it being a day when We recharge our physical and emotional batteries. It's a day for us to take care of ourselves and re st. At the end of the day everything we do, is from the fact that we are in Christ and partake of His spirit

to be honest I don't see hypocrisy in anyone's posts here and if i did wouldn't be my place to judge. The holy spirit convicts, not our place
 
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DamianWarS

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Non essential needs would be things like having your tv, computer, phone plugged in. You can unplug them. Simple enough. That is easy and doesn't cost any hardship to ourselves. THus ensuring a day of rest and ease
What about your lights? What about your fridge? You may need them for your comfort but for most, these are non essential use of man-powered systems. The electrical grid is just an example but modern Western living is plugged into many man-powered systems that we subscribe to (non-essential use) during the Sabbath.
 
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The point is we would not buy power if it is generated in a manner that violates our morals (not 10 years ago but today). If you don't like aborted babies then pretend it's child labour or a lying machine that generates power with every lie. If we would refuse to subscribe to a system that violates our morals why do we call working on the Sabbath wrong yet subscribe to man-powered systems on the Sabbath to sustain our non-essential needs? That is hypocrisy that this thread is clear no one is interested in fixing or even admitting to it.
Tell me dear friend do you practice what you preach here? Do you keep the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment and do everything your telling others to do? I am genuinely interested?
 
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.Mikha'el.

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I take no issue with it either but lighting a fire has nothing to do with it. It is about subscribing to man-powered systems during the Sabbath. You need to figure out if your goal is keeping the letter of the sabbath or not.

I don't get what "man-powered systems" has to do with anything.
 
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Junia

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What about your lights? What about your fridge? You may need them for your comfort but for most, these are non essential use of man-powered systems. The electrical grid is just an example but modern Western living is plugged into many man-powered systems that we subscribe to (non-essential use) during the Sabbath.
I

Well for me They are essential to live.

I can't speak for other people, what they do is between them and God. It's a personal decision based on their needs.
 
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