How many laws are too many?

HARK!

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Sure it debunks your interpretation of future application. It shows the context you left you to present tense indicative to now in the surrounding scriptures. After adding the scripture context back in that you left out, it is God's Word (not mine) that shows that the application of the scriptures is to now (present tense) showing "to come" was in application to the Mosaic law for remission of sins under the old covenant being "shadow laws" of the Christ that was to come and are now fulfilled in Christ who has now come with application being to the new covenant. Words do indeed have meaning but not in isolation from context that determines meaning in the Hebrew and Greek. It is the context the show application is to present tense indicative "now" because the "Christ" that the "shadow laws for remission of sins pointed to has now come.

If we can't agree that the Greek manuscripts say what they say for even one verse; nor if we can even agree on what the definition of "forever" is; I see no fruit in continuing this discussion.

Shalom
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If we can't agree that the Greek manuscripts say what they say for even one verse; nor if we can even agree on what the definition of "forever" is; I see no fruit in continuing this discussion.
Shalom

True. The context proves the Greek manuscripts disagree with your interpretation that Hebrews 7; Hebrews 8; Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10 is future application. By claiming future application to Hebrews is the same as saying that the new covenant has not started and we are still in the old covenant which is not true. Is that really what you believe dear friend? As shown through the scriptures and contexts posted verse by verse in post # 130 linked the application is now (present tense) in the body of Christ at His death for the sins of the world once and for all. Also as shown earlier the "shadow laws" for remission of sins are indeed forever so we have no disagreement here but where our disagreement is here is in the application of fulfilled. Fulfilled does not mean "abolished" like some teach. It means that the shadow laws for remission of sin (Levitical Priesthood, earthly Sanctuary, animal sacrifices and sin offerings and other prophetic Mosaic laws) are fulfilled in that to which they point to and are now continued in Christ to which they point to under His new ministration in the new covenant in the Heavenly Sanctuary which the Lord pitched and not man. I suggest you read *Hebrews 7:1-28; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-28; Hebrews 10:1-22. In the new covenant there is now no more animal sacrifices for sins and sin offerings, Levitical Priesthood, earthly Sanctuary. The "shadow laws" for remission of sins under the old covenant have not been fulfilled in Christ and his work and ministration on our behalf in the new covenant in the heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands. It is now time to leave the "shadows" when the body of Christ to which the shadows are attached as arrived.

Thank you for the discussion we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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You often hear the word "legalist" in reference to the commandments of God. The question is how many laws are too many?

In the US the Federal laws are too long to count! A List of Federal Laws (thelists.org)
Not to mention all the State, City and County laws- still too many to count. You're talking thousands and thousands of laws that we are all under and are suppose to obey.

Yet God's laws are simple and only 10. God asked us to keep His laws written in our hearts and minds, we do them (literally) because they are in our minds, but more importantly we obey out of our for love for God.

The only written and spoken scripture by God:

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I am surprised the word legalist and the commandments of God are used in the same sentence. God is the Creator of all things. We are here because of Him. What He asks of us seems so little in comparison. When we set out eyes on God and ask for His help to keep all His laws, why is this so difficult?

There are 613 in the Torah alone.
 
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DamianWarS

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You often hear the word "legalist" in reference to the commandments of God. The question is how many laws are too many?

In the US the Federal laws are too long to count! A List of Federal Laws (thelists.org)
Not to mention all the State, City and County laws- still too many to count. You're talking thousands and thousands of laws that we are all under and are suppose to obey.

Yet God's laws are simple and only 10. God asked us to keep His laws written in our hearts and minds, we do them (literally) because they are in our minds, but more importantly we obey out of our for love for God.

The only written and spoken scripture by God:

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I am surprised the word legalist and the commandments of God are used in the same sentence. God is the Creator of all things. We are here because of Him. What He asks of us seems so little in comparison. When we set out eyes on God and ask for His help to keep all His laws, why is this so difficult?
may I then spit at my neighbour and cross the road when I see him in the ditch half dead? (I'm just asking because I didn't see it on your list)
 
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johnbunyan

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When we set out eyes on God and ask for His help to keep all His laws, why is this so difficult?
Paul did not believe anyone could be righteous in God's sight by obeying the law. Therefore he could not have considered obeying the ten commandments to be easy.
Concerning the ten commandments specifically, when writing to christians he stated those commands were the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation.
So there appears to be a wide divergence between what you consider obeying the ten commandments entails and what scripture states. However, I would be interested to know why you are not quoting the beatitudes if you want to quote commandments specifically outlined in Jesus teaching. They brought the law to its true standard.
IE
Not committing the act of adultery does not stop you breaking that commandment in your heart.
 
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johnbunyan

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What He asks of us seems so little in comparison. When we set out eyes on God and ask for His help to keep all His laws, why is this so difficult?
Would you tell a teenager who had just reached puberty it was not difficult to avoid dwelling on any impure thoughts? If they did, they would be breaking the ten commandments which would put them in peril of hell( I assume is your view)

I rather doubt you would tell them that
 
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HARK!

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In the new covenant there is now no more animal sacrifices for sins and sin offerings, Levitical Priesthood, earthly Sanctuary. The "shadow laws" for remission of sins under the old covenant have not been fulfilled in Christ and his work and ministration on our behalf in the new covenant in the heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands. It is now time to leave the "shadows" when the body of Christ to which the shadows are attached as arrived.

Thank you for the discussion we will have to agree to disagree.

Then why did James order Paul to make sacrifices; and why did Paul agree to it?

I've started an in depth study that might interest you. You're welcome to join me in a sincere study of the truth.

YHWH's Table (Part 1)
 
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