How do you : "Fall from Grace"

Brightfame52 said:

I don't need to address those scriptures, for what?

Click to expand...

Did you actually SAY you don't need to address Scriptures?


Jim

5thKingdom said:

As I have already explained to you (several times I believe)
the ONLY MEASURE of Biblical Truth is harmony of ALL RELATED
verses. If you have ONE VERSE that contradicts your "theory"
about the MEANING of John 1:12-13... that PROVES your theory
is not correct (because it contradicts RELATED passages). At best
your "theory" could only be a PARTIAL-TRUTH (a lie).


I don't know WHY this would be "news" to you because this
is the FIRST LESSON in Bible study... there are NO CONTRADICTIONS
in the Bible so your "theory" cannot contradict any RELATED passage
or it is already proven to be un-Biblical and incorrect.


Now.... I sent you MANY Scriptures (about 6 if I remember right)
that CONTRADICT your "theory" about John 1:12-13 so that means
EITHER the Bible contains contradictions or your "theory" is wrong.


And the fact that YOU do not even want to TRY to compare
Scripture with Scripture... tells the whole story right there.
The Bible COMMANDS we compare Scripture with Scripture
because any good heresy can be supported by a single verse...
all good lies must contain a little truth.


Listen, I could not care less whether you TRY to harmonize
your theory on John 1 with all the RELATED passages I sent
you. But when you INTENTIONALLY IGNORE Scriptures that
contradict your "theory" you demonstrate you are not even
interested in finding Biblical Truth. It's really as simple as that.


Jim

Click to expand...

There is no contradiction, what you said is error. Men were born of God during Jesus Ministry, therefore indwelt by God the Spirit. Jn 1:12-13

The same Truth is in 1 Jn 5:1

5thKingdom said:

We know absolutely that Jesus said He must ascend BEFORE
He would send the Holy Spirit. And we know absolutely that
the Holy Spirit was poured DURING Pentecost. In fact, Jesus
commanded the Apostles to WAIT for this to happen during
Pentecost.


So you can pretend Jesus was lying and you can pretend
that the Holy Spirit was poured out BEFORE Pentecost but
you are only pretending to yourself. Even "babes in Christ",
even first year Bible students, understand Pentecost.


I suggest you do yourself a favor and spend some time
researching what the Saints have said about this issue
for the last 2000+/- years. Do you really believe that
YOU have found some "truth" no previous Saint knew?
If you do some research you will find EVERYBODY has
rejected your "theory" since the days of the Apostles.


I do not say this with any malice whatsoever. This is just
a VERY basic and essential element of the Christian Gospel
and it is astounding to find it not understood by "teachers".


Jim

Click to expand...

I know for a fact that those who received Christ, believed on His Name during His earthly Ministry were Born of God ! Jn 1:12-13

5thKingdom said:

BTW... SATAN "believed" Jesus was the Son of God and
DEMONS "believed" Jesus was the Son of God and even
complained He was torturing them "before the time"...
I already SENT YOU the Scriptures revealing this Truth.
When you decide to IGNORE Scriptures that contradict
your theory - you will end-up with false doctrines.


Jim

Click to expand...

Are you suggesting satan was born of God as these Jn 1:12-13

5thKingdom said:

Did you actually SAY you don't need to address Scriptures?


Jim

Click to expand...

Yes I did say that ! There is no reason to in this particular instance. No scriptures are going to contradict Jn 1:12-13 !

Brightfame52 said:

There is no contradiction, what you said is error. Men were born of God during Jesus Ministry, therefore indwelt by God the Spirit. Jn 1:12-13

Click to expand...

Whatever

.

Brightfame52 said:

Yes I did say that ! There is no reason to in this particular instance. No scriptures are going to contradict Jn 1:12-13 !

Click to expand...

Whatever

.

Brightfame52 said:

Are you suggesting satan was born of God as these Jn 1:12-13

Click to expand...

No... why would you think such a thing?


I just said what the BIBLE shows, that Satan BELIEVED
Jesus was the Son of God and the DEMONS also BELIEVED
Jesus was the Son of God.


Would you like for me to send you the SCRIPTURES
which show this reality?


Jim

5thKingdom said:

That is what YOU say.... this is what CHRIST says:


Joh 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.


Joh 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them,
and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life;
and they shall never perish, neither shall any man
pluck them out of my hand.


So Jesus says NONE will be lost... you say SOME shall be lost.
I wonder who is correct? Jesus or you?


Jim

Click to expand...

John 6:66-67 "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?"

This passage is proof disciples can turn back and walk no more with Christ. For them to turn and walk no more implies that must have been of Christ walking with Him. But the "also" of verse 67 shows Christ's own Apostles could have all turned from Christ and walk no more with Him. One did, Judas but all of them could have had they so chosen as those in v66 chose to do.

John 6:39-40 the ones that God gives to Christ are those who have a PRESENT TENSE seeing and believing. Therefore as long as one CONDITIONALLY CONTINUES to see and believe may have everlasting life. Those that quit seeing and believing will not have everlasting life.

Same is true in John 10:27-28 those that conditionally have a present tense, ongoing, life long sustained hearing and following qualify as a sheep of Christ and never perish. Yet those that quit seeing and hearing no longer qualify as a sheep of Christ therefore do perish.

BNR32FAN said:

I absolutely agree with you friend. John 15:1-10 is very clear on this subject. Nevertheless I still don’t believe that Judas was ever a true believer. I believe he was a tare planted by the evil one and allowed by God because he was foreseen to fulfill the prophecy.

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You post "don’t believe that Judas was ever a true believer".

Is that based on theological bias for I cannot find anything in the Bible to sustained the idea that Judas never believed.

Butterball1 said:

You post "don’t believe that Judas was ever a true believer".

Is that based on theological bias for I cannot find anything in the Bible to sustained the idea that Judas never believed.

Click to expand...

Jesus’ statements in John 6:64-71.

“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray Him. And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” As a result of this many of His disciples left, and would no longer walk with Him. So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to leave also, do you?” Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. And we have already believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot; for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:64-71‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

According to Mark 3 Jesus appointed the 12 in Capernaum.

“When Jesus came back to Capernaum a few days later, it was heard that He was at home.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

“And He *went up on the mountain and *summoned those whom He Himself wanted, and they came to Him. And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach, and to have authority to cast out the demons. And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter), James the son of Zebedee and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, “Sons of Thunder”); and Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot; and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭3:13-19‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 6 also took place in Capernaum very early in Jesus’ ministry.

“Now when evening came, His disciples went down to the sea, and after getting into a boat, they started to cross the sea to Capernaum. It had already become dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:16-17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

So it would appear that very close to the time the 12 were appointed by Christ, Judas at that time was not a believer. We also know that later on the scriptures would reveal that Judas has been stealing money from the treasury.

““Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the proceeds given to poor people? ” Now he said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he kept the money box, he used to steal from what was put into it.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:5-6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Now we don’t know how long Jesus was in Capernaum and we do know that He was there twice but according to Mark 2 it was the second time that Jesus was in Capernaum where he appointed the 12.

Butterball1 said:

John 6:66-67 "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?"

Click to expand...

This passage is proof disciples can turn back and walk no more with Christ.

Click to expand...

As I already explained to you, there is NO QUESTION that
"disciples" of Christ turn back. (a) First, I already showed
you JESUS said many/most in the "church" are unsaved
"tares" sown by Satan and (b) I showed you SCRIPTURE
teaching these "tares" fall away to SHOW (make manifest)
that they were NEVER saved "wheat"... I do not know WHY
you seem unable to accept what Scripture says. I will now


1Jn 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued
with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest
that they were not all of us.


OK.... did you UNDERSTAND the SCRIPTURE says the unsaved
tares "WENT OUT" that they might be made "MANIFEST" they
were never "OF US".


So (I hope) that has SETTLED the issue that unsaved "tares"
in the church will go out (fall away or depart or abandon, etc)
in order to SHOW (make manifest) they were never saved.


More importantly, I will AGAIN remind you the most important
question is NOT whether unsaved "disciples" can abandon Jesus,
the ISSUE is WHY did the disciples in John 6 abandon Jesus?
I will re-post what I already showed you. Please read it again
CAREFULLY and focus on comprehension.


------------- Re-Posted from post #148 -------------


No, the POINT of John 6:65-66 is NOT that (unsaved) disciples
can abandon Jesus... although that is true, in fact the Bible says
unsaved "tares" will depart from the church to MANIFEST that
they were never saved "wheat".


Joh 6:37
All [not some but ALL MEN] that the Father giveth me
shall come to me; [all given SHALL COME] and him that cometh
to me I will in no wise cast out [NONE will be lost... no, not one].


Joh 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me,
that of all [not SOME, but ALL] which he hath given me
I should lose nothing, [NONE will be lost, no, not even one]
but should raise it up again at the last day.


Joh 6:44
NO MAN [not SOME men, but NO MAN]
can come to me [can be SAVED by having Jesus as Savior],
except the Father which hath sent me DRAW HIM:
and I will raise him up at the last day. [they will be SAVED]


The REAL POINT is the disciples realized that Jesus was teaching
salvation by ELECTION [v37. v39, v43] and, like most men today
they didn't want a salvation plan where God is Sovereign and elects
who HE will, based only on His Good Purpose and NOT on anything
that person would do during their lifetime. Like most men today,
the disciples that abandoned Jesus wanted a (synergistic) salvation
plan where THEY could initiate their own salvation. But that is just
not the way REAL (monergistic) Sovereign Grace works, as was
made clear to Nicodemus, who ALSO wanted to DO SOMETHING
to be saved ("born again").


Joh 3:4
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?


Nicodemus, like the disciples who abandoned Jesus when they
realized He was teaching salvation by the Sovereign Grace of God
("election"), and like most men today who demand a synergistic
salvation plan... the hard TRUTH about the monergistic Gospel is
just not something they can understand or accept.


Joh 3:9
Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?


Now, WHY do I say they cannot understand or accept the Gospel?
Because that is EXACTLY what Jesus taught. Jesus was very clear
some men were NEVER MEANT to "perceive" or "understand"
the Gospel or "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven".
These people (which are the vast majority of "Christians" being
unsaved "tares" and ALL those outside the church) are not able
to ever accept the (monergistic) Gospel of Sovereign Grace...
most (in the church) don't have "eyes to see" or "ears to hear"
because they are unsaved "tares" NEVER MEANT to be saved.


The Bible is VERY CLEAR that being "born again" is based ONLY
on the Will of God... and has NOTHING to do with the will of men.
We can see this reality (if we have "eyes to see") throughout the
Scriptures. Here are just a FEW of those passages:


Joh 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of [the Will of] God.


Rom 9:1516
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is NOT of him that willeth, NOR of him that runneth,
but of God that sheweth mercy.


John 15:16
Ye have NOT chosen me, but I have chosen you,
and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit,
and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask
of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad,
and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were
ordained to eternal life believed.


2Th 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you,
brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the BEGINNING chosen you to salvation through sanctification of
the Spirit and belief of the truth:


Eph 1:4
According as he hath CHOSEN US in him
before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy
and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us
unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself,
according to the good pleasure of his will,


So, the ISSUE is not whether "disciples" can abandon Jesus
because we already KNOW the majority of the "church" are
unsaved "tares" sown by Satan and destined to eternal torment.
Instead, the ISSUE of John 6 is that His "disciples" abandoned
Him for a VERY SPECIFIC REASON.


If you cannot discern the VERY SPECIFIC REASON causing
His disciples to abandon Him then you cannot understand the
primary TEACHING of John 6. It is really as simple as that.
The teaching of John 6 is NOT that unsaved people depart,
it is that salvation is by the Sovereign ELECTION of God.


Jim

5thKingdom said:

No... why would you think such a thing?


I just said what the BIBLE shows, that Satan BELIEVED
Jesus was the Son of God and the DEMONS also BELIEVED
Jesus was the Son of God.


Would you like for me to send you the SCRIPTURES
which show this reality?


Jim

Click to expand...

I don't see how satan, the devil had anything to do with Jn 1:12-13! You brought him up. He was not born of God.

Brightfame52 said:

I don't see how satan, the devil had anything to do with Jn 1:12-13! You brought him up. He was not born of God.

Click to expand...

You are very confused.
I suggest you READ through the thread CAREFULLY to see:


(1) How the SCRIPTURES contradict your "theory" about the
disciples being "indwelt" by the Holy Spirit before Pentecost and


(2) How the SCRIPTURES contradict your "theory" that everyone
who "believes" in the name of Jesus is saved, because Satan and
the Demons "believed" Jesus was the Son of God.


I cannot take you seriously any longer and, therefore, I cannot
waste any more time showing you SCRIPTURE which you IGNORE
in order to protect your "theory" about John 1:12-13, which is
contradicted by 6-7 SCRIPTURES I already GAVE YOU.


Now... just so you understand. I am not saying John 1:12-13
is not true. I am ONLY saying your "interpretation" of the verse
contradicts a half-dozen RELATED SCRIPTURES which PROVES
(beyond any shadow of doubt) that your THEORY is incorrect.


Again, John 1:12-13 is not incorrect,
your THEORY about what it means is incorrect
because your THEORY contradicts at least a half dozen Scriptures
which I have already given you.


Now I am done with you.
I cannot waste any more time with someone who
IGNORES Scriptures that contradict their THEORIES.


Jim

5thKingdom said:

You are very confused.
I suggest you READ through the thread CAREFULLY to see:


(1) How the SCRIPTURES contradict your "theory" about the
disciples being "indwelt" by the Holy Spirit before Pentecost and


(2) How the SCRIPTURES contradict your "theory" that everyone
who "believes" in the name of Jesus is saved, because Satan and
the Demons "believed" Jesus was the Son of God.


I cannot take you seriously any longer and, therefore, I cannot
waste any more time showing you SCRIPTURE which you IGNORE
in order to protect your "theory" about John 1:12-13, which is
contradicted by 6-7 SCRIPTURES I already GAVE YOU.


Now... just so you understand. I am not saying John 1:12-13
is not true. I am ONLY saying your "interpretation" of the verse
contradicts a half-dozen RELATED SCRIPTURES which PROVES
(beyond any shadow of doubt) that your THEORY is incorrect.


Again, John 1:12-13 is not incorrect,
your THEORY about what it means is incorrect
because your THEORY contradicts at least a half dozen Scriptures
which I have already given you.


Now I am done with you.
I cannot waste any more time with someone who
IGNORES Scriptures that contradict their THEORIES.


Jim

Click to expand...

believing in Christ when it comes to Salvation, is because the person had been born of God Jn 1:12-13; 1 Jn 5:1 ! What does satan/ devil and demons have to do with that ?

The believers in Jn 1:12-13 during Christs Ministry were born of God, therefore indwelt by the Spirit. How can someone be born of God, and not be indwelt by God, that's foolishness !

BNR32FAN said:

Jesus’ statements in John 6:64-71.

“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray Him. And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” As a result of this many of His disciples left, and would no longer walk with Him. So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to leave also, do you?” Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. And we have already believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot; for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:64-71‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

According to Mark 3 Jesus appointed the 12 in Capernaum.

“When Jesus came back to Capernaum a few days later, it was heard that He was at home.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

“And He *went up on the mountain and *summoned those whom He Himself wanted, and they came to Him. And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach, and to have authority to cast out the demons. And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter), James the son of Zebedee and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, “Sons of Thunder”); and Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot; and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭3:13-19‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 6 also took place in Capernaum very early in Jesus’ ministry.

“Now when evening came, His disciples went down to the sea, and after getting into a boat, they started to cross the sea to Capernaum. It had already become dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:16-17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

So it would appear that very close to the time the 12 were appointed by Christ, Judas at that time was not a believer. We also know that later on the scriptures would reveal that Judas has been stealing money from the treasury.

““Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the proceeds given to poor people? ” Now he said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he kept the money box, he used to steal from what was put into it.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:5-6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Now we don’t know how long Jesus was in Capernaum and we do know that He was there twice but according to Mark 2 it was the second time that Jesus was in Capernaum where he appointed the 12.

Click to expand...

As I posted before from Matthew 10:
--Judas was inspired by the Holy Spirit as other Bible writers were inspired, Matthew 10:19-20
--Judas was endowed by the Holy Spirit to perform miracles, Matthew 10:1,8
--God is said to be Judas' Father, Matthew 10:20,29
--receiveing Judas was the same as receiving Jesus Matthew 10:40

The above could not possibly be true if Judas were an unbelieving, unforgiven, lost reprobate.

John 6:63 "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."

This verse does not say Judas was of those who belived not, that would be an assumption. Judas was the singular "who" that betrayed Christ though. The "and" makes a distinction between those who believe not from Judas who betrayed Jesus. Acts 1:24-25 one (Judas) cannot fall if one was always fallen.

I am not seeing anything in John 6:16-17 that proves Judas was never a believer. I see nothing that suggests that Judas was 'always' a thief. The Apostles had been together for about 3 years when the last supper takes place in Matthew 26. During this supper Jesus said "Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me." To which the 12 replied "Lord, is it I?" Hence Judas had done nothing to arouse any suspicion among the 12 about his character.

Matthew 19:26-29 if Judas was a "faker", I do not see a faker to have "forsaken all, and followed thee"
or to " forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake". Does not make sense for a faker to be so dedicated as to forsake all. Would Jesus promise a lost unbelieving reprobate, a faker a "throne" of authority, Matthew 19:28?

Butterball1 said:

This verse does not say Judas was of those who belived not, that would be an assumption.

Click to expand...

Based solely on verse 63 yes it would be an assumption but based on verses 70 & 71 it is a scriptural supported fact.

“Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot; for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:70-71‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Butterball1 said:

Acts 1:24-25 one (Judas) cannot fall if one was always fallen.

Click to expand...

Fall is an inaccurate translation.

παραβαίνω
G3845
parabainō

1. to go by the side of
2. to go past or pass over without touching a thing
3. to overstep, neglect, violate, transgress
4. so to go past as to turn aside from
a. to depart, leave, be turned from
5. one who abandons his trust

That verse does not have to be translated as fall but can also be translated as turned aside or even rejected.

“And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all people, show which one of these two You have chosen to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:24-25‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Brightfame52 said:

The believers in Jn 1:12-13 during Christs Ministry were born of God, therefore indwelt by the Spirit. How can someone be born of God, and not be indwelt by God, that's foolishness !

Click to expand...

You are very confused.
I suggest you READ through the thread CAREFULLY to see:


(1) How the SCRIPTURES contradict your "theory" about the
disciples being "indwelt" by the Holy Spirit before Pentecost and


(2) How the SCRIPTURES contradict your "theory" that everyone
who "believes" in the name of Jesus is saved, because Satan and
the Demons "believed" Jesus was the Son of God.


I cannot take you seriously any longer and, therefore, I cannot
waste any more time showing you SCRIPTURE which you IGNORE
in order to protect your "theory" about John 1:12-13, which is
contradicted by 6-7 SCRIPTURES I already GAVE YOU.


Now... just so you understand. I am not saying John 1:12-13
is not true. I am ONLY saying your "interpretation" of the verse
contradicts a half-dozen RELATED SCRIPTURES which PROVES
(beyond any shadow of doubt) that your THEORY is incorrect.


Again, John 1:12-13 is not incorrect,
your THEORY about what it means is incorrect
because your THEORY contradicts at least a half dozen Scriptures
which I have already given you.


Now I am done with you.
I cannot waste any more time with someone who
IGNORES Scriptures that contradict their THEORIES.


Jim

Butterball1 said:

As I posted before from Matthew 10:
--Judas was inspired by the Holy Spirit as other Bible writers were inspired, Matthew 10:19-20
--Judas was endowed by the Holy Spirit to perform miracles, Matthew 10:1,8
--God is said to be Judas' Father, Matthew 10:20,29
--receiveing Judas was the same as receiving Jesus Matthew 10:40

The above could not possibly be true if Judas were an unbelieving, unforgiven, lost reprobate.

John 6:63 "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."

This verse does not say Judas was of those who belived not, that would be an assumption. Judas was the singular "who" that betrayed Christ though. The "and" makes a distinction between those who believe not from Judas who betrayed Jesus. Acts 1:24-25 one (Judas) cannot fall if one was always fallen.

I am not seeing anything in John 6:16-17 that proves Judas was never a believer. I see nothing that suggests that Judas was 'always' a thief. The Apostles had been together for about 3 years when the last supper takes place in Matthew 26. During this supper Jesus said "Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me." To which the 12 replied "Lord, is it I?" Hence Judas had done nothing to arouse any suspicion among the 12 about his character.

Matthew 19:26-29 if Judas was a "faker", I do not see a faker to have "forsaken all, and followed thee"
or to " forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake". Does not make sense for a faker to be so dedicated as to forsake all. Would Jesus promise a lost unbelieving reprobate, a faker a "throne" of authority, Matthew 19:28?

Click to expand...

The verses your quoting from Matthew are directed to the group not specifically towards Judas. Jesus knew who would betray Him and never revealed it to the others. Even when He specifically said the one whom I dip the bread and give it to none of the apostles picked up on that. So it’s not surprising that He wouldn’t single Judas out from the group in those verses in Matthew. Obviously He didn’t want the others to know about Judas.