How does one lose a free gift?

JohnB445 said:

I agree, I am coming back to the OSAS teaching.

When people say they can lose it, I was thinking maybe it was something that I don't understand why they would leave the faith. But now when I look more closely it makes no sense why someone would tip their hat and just leave.

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Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:


Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:


And here is a list of potential fallen believers:


In fact, Paul is against Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved type belief. For Paul says,

1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
   
   
2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
   
   
4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
   
   
5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
   
   
6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).
   
   
7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
   
   
8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
   
   
9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
   
   
10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

These things would not exist in Scripture if things are as the OSAS teachers say.

JohnB445 said:

I believed in OSAS before, and then got into the teaching that you can lose it, but now I am starting to lean back to OSAS and the ones who lost it never believed or had faith to begin with. So how is this possible? If one was in the maybe they believe category then they didn't believe. There is no maybe, its either they believe fully or they don't.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

So what did one do to lose it? Fall away from the faith, but they never had faith to begin with did they?

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There are two problems with believing in OSAS.


Note: “Grievous sin” is any sin that the Bible menions that is attached with warnings of hellfire and condemnation of one's soul. For the sin at Sodom and Gomorrah was considered to be very grievous (See: Genesis 18:20), and we know that city was destroyed because of the exceptional depravity of it's sins (See: 2 Peter 2:6), and the intense cries that such depravity caused (Genesis 19:13).

Many believers who defend OSAS will say every single passage that deals with falling away is referring to nominal Christians who never were saved. While there is no doubt believers who have pretended to accept Jesus Christ and His grace, to say that all passages dealing with falling away is referring to this kind of nominal Christian is a serious error. First, you cannot fall away from something you never had. The nominal Christian never had a true faith or salvation, and so they cannot fall away from anything.

Second, the problem with saying that all verses that deal with falling away is referring to nominal Christians is that we are told to endure as a part of our salvation.

We are told:



We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

So salvation is not forced upon us after we made a one time free will choice to choose Jesus Christ.
Forced Salvationism actually has it's origins in Calvinism.

JohnB445 said:

I believed in OSAS before, and then got into the teaching that you can lose it, but now I am starting to lean back to OSAS and the ones who lost it never believed or had faith to begin with. So how is this possible? If one was in the maybe they believe category then they didn't believe. There is no maybe, its either they believe fully or they don't.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

So what did one do to lose it? Fall away from the faith, but they never had faith to begin with did they?

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If there is one doctrine I know is false beyond a shadow of a doubt it is OSAS. For this belief clearly leads men to treat God's grace as a license for immorality in some way. For even those few believers who say that you must live a squeak clean holy life (and who say you must obey as a part of salvation) in order for OSAS to be true have admitted that a believer can commit a grievous sin (or damning sin), and then get hit by a bus, and still be saved as long as they generally lived a holy life prior. The problem with this kind of thinking is that it is a justification of sin and or evil. Remember, it only took one sin via by Adam in order for the entirety of mankind to be placed into the fall (i.e. sin and death). For the apostle Paul says,

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” (Romans 5:12).

God told Adam that in the day he ate thereof, he would die (See: Genesis 2:17). Adam did not die physically, but he died spiritually the day he ate of the wrong tree. The lie that the serpent (Satan) was pushing upon Eve was that she and her husband could break this one command and they would not die. Yet, the serpent lied and they did die. This same lie is being pushed by the devil today. It is the lie that you can sin and still be saved. That is what OSAS is really saying. Disobey God and you are okay with God. But doesn't disobedience to God sound more like the devil than God? It should because 1 John 3:8 says, “He that committeth sin is of the devil;” It should because John 3:20 says, “For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,” It should because 1 John 2:4 says, “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” It should because 1 John 3:10 says, “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” It should because 1 John 3:15 says, “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

Bible Highlighter said:

If there is one doctrine I know is false beyond a shadow of a doubt it is OSAS.

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I would give Cessationism that dishonor, because it actually denies the work and power of the Holy Spirit, which is the unpardonable sin that Jesus explicitly named.

RDKirk said:

I would give Cessationism that dishonor, because it actually denies the work and power of the Holy Spirit, which is the unpardonable sin that Jesus explicitly named.

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Narrow is the way indeed. I lean towards Partial Cessationism, but I am of the belief that it is wrong to speak badly against any form of miraculous gifts as some Cessationists do (Just in case we are wrong). I do consider the possibility that there may be some remote believers in a jungle somewhere who may be operating by the miraculous gifts (if I am wrong). But the Scripture does appear to suggest a Partial Cession of the gifts. In my view, such verses would not exist if Partial Cessationism was not potentially true. For those who are interested, check out this thread here for the verses:

Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

Note: I have two close Christian friends who have spoken in tongues before me. I have labeled it as a mystery. Yet, on the other hand I know Scripture implies or suggests that the miraculous gifts have ceased, though. So it's not something I would pursue myself and neither would it be something I would encourage.

RDKirk said:

I would give Cessationism that dishonor, because it actually denies the work and power of the Holy Spirit, which is the unpardonable sin that Jesus explicitly named.

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There are actually several sins that are unforgiveable.

#1. Speaking bad words against the Holy Spirit (after having been regenerated by the Spirit)
(Matthew 12:31-32).
#2. Apostasy (Rejecting Jesus Christ as your Savior) (Hebrews 6:4-6).
#3. Committing suicide (or self murder) and staying dead (1 John 3:15).
#4. Worshiping the beast (Revelation 13:8) (Revelation 17:8) (Note: These folk who commit this kind of sin never even had their names in the Lamb's book of life since the foundation of the world).

JohnB445 said:

I believed in OSAS before, and then got into the teaching that you can lose it, but now I am starting to lean back to OSAS and the ones who lost it never believed or had faith to begin with. So how is this possible? If one was in the maybe they believe category then they didn't believe. There is no maybe, its either they believe fully or they don't.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

So what did one do to lose it? Fall away from the faith, but they never had faith to begin with did they?

Click to expand...

Again, while I do not deny there are fake nominal Christians in existence (Which is what 1 John 2:19 appears to teach), some will point out 1 John 2:19 as if it was some kind of blanket truth statement so as to explain away all verses that talk abou falling away. 1 John 2:19 says,


However, this verse is in reference to the false gnostic believers who thought that sin did not exist or it was an illusion (See the warning to the brethren on this false gnostic belief in 1 John 1:8, and 1 John 1:10). This does not refer to all believers of any kind (who have been regenerated and who must endure of their own free will to the end), but to the gnostic believer who even denied that Jesus came in the flesh (See: 1 John 4:1-3).

Now, others may attempt to say that Matthew 7:22-23 is referring to only fake nominal believers who never knew Jesus. But this theory does not hold water in light of looking at the whole counsel of God's Word.

Ezekiel 3:20 says,


In other words, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness, and he commits iniquity, his previous righteousness will no longer be remembered. This means the Lord will no longer remember a believer if they turn back to their sin because God associates with a believer in their doing righteousness. So if there is no righteousness to remember, that means He will no longer remember a believer and it will be as if He never knew them because there is no more righteousness to remember. This is how the Lord can say He never knew a particular believer (even if they may have known the Lord at one point in time). For when we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior, and or if we confess our sins to Jesus, He no longer remembers those past sins (See: Hebrews 4:16, and Hebrews 8:12). So the door swings both ways. God can forever forget our past sins forever, but we have to play ball on God's terms and not our own. Believers must confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (See Proverbs 28:13). Believers must follow after holiness without which no man shall see the Lord (See: Hebrews 12:14).

So OSAS is clearly untrue.

JohnB445 said:

I believed in OSAS before, and then got into the teaching that you can lose it, but now I am starting to lean back to OSAS and the ones who lost it never believed or had faith to begin with. So how is this possible? If one was in the maybe they believe category then they didn't believe. There is no maybe, its either they believe fully or they don't.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

So what did one do to lose it? Fall away from the faith, but they never had faith to begin with did they?

Click to expand...

How does a person lose a free gift?

Well, if a person received a car as a free gift, they could lose it by driving drunk, or by hitting pedestrians, etc. If a person prayed for a wife, and they considered her as a free gift from God, they could lose her if they started to cheat on her. The same is true with God. His free gift is attached with conditions of responsibiltiy in keeping it. For life teaches us that free gifts can be forfeited by our lack of care for those gifts.

Bible Highlighter said:

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3​

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)​

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)​

In fact, Paul is against Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved type belief. For Paul says,

1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
   
   
2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
   
   
4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
   
   
5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
   
   
6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).
   
   
7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
   
   
8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
   
   
9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
   
   
10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

These things would not exist in Scripture if things are as the OSAS teachers say.

Click to expand...

I don't believe you understand Salvation by Grace nor the verses you quote. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
So those who Christ died for are legally saved from the penalty of their sins even while being hostile unbelievers.