Hi Thunder, Thanks for the PM, I appriciate your kind words!!
Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
And yes, as I already said before, I do believe that we are in the same hour (age) as the disciples. They were under the Law before this age, but we are under the blood of Christ, sowing so our Lord will have an abundant harvest.
Thunder, Please bear with me here, this is an excellent point you have made and is VERY inportant to the discussion at hand,therefore, it requires a VERY thorough response. I'll break it into 2 posts, but PLEASE take the time to read them before you respond.
From what you have said, you believe the
"present age" of scripture is the Christian age.
I believe that there are serious exegetical problems with making the "present age" of scripture the Christian age. The difficulties of such a view only multiply when the "age to come" is viewed as a yet future entrance into eternity at an alleged future return of Christ.
In the Galatian letter, Paul, speaking of Christ writes, "Who gave himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from
"this present evil age", according to the will of our God and Father" (Galatians 1:4).
Of primary importance is the fact that Christ died for "our" [the Jews] sins. Secondly, he died to deliver the saints from the
"present age." Third, the apostle describes the present age as
"evil."
First, if the "present age" is the Christian age as you assert, then it is the age ushered in by Christ's death and resurrection. The present age would find its beginning on Pentecost and belong to the gospel dispensation. It is here that we must raise the first red flag. If the present age is the Christian age, then Christ died to deliver the saints from the age which he came to establish.
Further, this means that the age which Christ came to establish (the Christian age) was no more effective than the Jewish age in which men previously lived. Consider this. Paul writes, "Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not. For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law" (Galatians 3:21). So, life could not be achieved in the Jewish age, hence the need to deliver the Jews from it (Romans 7:6).
However, since it is argued by some that life is not achieved in the Christian age, then Paul should likewise have written the following: Is the gospel then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a gospel given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the gospel. According you THUNDER, they were in the gospel age. According to Paul, they were yet through the Spirit eagerly awaiting the hope of righteousness (Galatians 5:5). Therefore, there was no advantage of the gospel (Christian age) over the law with respect to achieving the hope of life/righteousness.
Secondly, it means that Christ died to deliver the church from an age which did not then exist at the time of his death. As a matter of fact, not even the church existed. Christ had to die to bring the church into existence. Then he had to create an age in which to place the church so he could immediately begin to deliver them out of it! He allegedly takes them out of the Jewish age at his death, only to place them in an age from which they yet must be delivered.
A further complication to this matter is the fact that Christ taught through inspiration that their deliverance from the
"present age" was "at hand" and "coming in a little while" (James 5:7-9; Hebrews 10:37). This must be the case since deliverance from the age is accomplished at the return of Christ. However since the traditionalist futuristic viewpoint alleges that these time statements are "elastic" and "relative," then Christ was merely "pulling their leg" with those "I come quickly" rubberband time statements. Generations have come and gone and are still going and going like the Duracell battery and yet there is no deliverance from the "present evil age."
A more ridiculous picture of scripture trifling and chicanery could not be made of the redemptive-historic, glorious work of Christ. Consider this scenario. A bodyshop repairman offers to replace your broken windshield. The only problem is that the windshield is not broken. Advising the repairman of this fact, he then responds by smashing the windshield with a hammer and saying, "It is now"!
This corresponds somewhat with the plight of the new covenant saints. Christ died, per the traditionalists, and ended the law (Jewish age) at the cross. Therefore, on their terms, no one was in it. According to Galatians, Christ also died to deliver them from the present evil age, an age which he had to create, place the saints into, then like the repairman above, offer to deliver them out of it. Would it not have been easier for the repairman never to have broken the windshield? Would it also not have been easier for Christ never to have made an age from which the saints immediately needed deliverance?
Continued next post........