Discussion So if God says something to you and it doesn't happen ...

Carl Emerson · Jan 18, 2021

Michael Collum said:
A word of knowledge is different than a prophecy though.

What point are you making?

Carl Emerson · Jan 18, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Until there is unity of doctrine, every revival will be interrupted before it can complete it's work.

Well back in the 70's we had a significant move of God and unity of purpose was far more prominent than agreed dogma - in fact no one cared much about that, it was all hands to the pump, folks comig in from the street in repentance - we were unified in the Gospel and moving in the gifts.

Francis Drake · Jan 18, 2021

RDKirk said:
Are you sure you know what He meant?

Nebuchadnezzar was also the Lord's "trump card."

I was praying for the US presidential election, so absolutely yes.

Francis Drake · Jan 18, 2021

RDKirk said:
Okay, so a couple of posts have evoked a question to me:

As I consider scriptural examples, when has God ever given someone a prophesy without telling the prophet precisely to whom the prophesy was to be delivered?

Yes.
When Samuel was sent to Jesse to anoint the man to replace Saul. God did not reveal his name or which son.
1Sam16v5Samuel replied, “Yes, in peace; I have come to sacrifice to the Lord. Consecrate yourselves and come to the sacrifice with me.” Then he consecrated Jesse and his sons and invited them to the sacrifice.

6When they arrived, Samuel saw Eliab and thought, “Surely the Lord’s anointed stands here before the Lord.”
As can be seen, Samuel didn't know who the prophetic anointing pertained to.

7But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

8Then Jesse called Abinadab and had him pass in front of Samuel. But Samuel said, “The Lord has not chosen this one either.” 9Jesse then had Shammah pass by, but Samuel said, “Nor has the Lord chosen this one.” 10Jesse had seven of his sons pass before Samuel, but Samuel said to him, “The Lord has not chosen these.” 11So he asked Jesse, “Are these all the sons you have?”

“There is still the youngest,” Jesse answered. “He is tending the sheep.”

Samuel said, “Send for him; we will not sit down until he arrives.”

12So he sent for him and had him brought in. He was glowing with health and had a fine appearance and handsome features.

Then the Lord said, “Rise and anoint him; this is the one.”

13So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon David. Samuel then went to Ramah.
Without question, Samuel did not know the recipient till the moment the Lord showed him.

And what good would the prophesy be if the prophet does not know exactly who to deliver it to?

As can be seen above, revelation frequently comes progressively.

Are there any biblical prophesies addressed, "To whom it may concern?"

Again, this is really the same question answered above, but the "To whom it may concern" factor is answered even more vividly here.-
Matt17v10The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”
(This refers to a prophecy in Malachi)
11Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.
Up to that point, nobody understood who the prophecy related to.
ie. "To whom it may concern!"

RDKirk · Jan 18, 2021

Francis Drake said:
Yes.
When Samuel was sent to Jesse to anoint the man to replace Saul. God did not reveal his name or which son.
1Sam16v5Samuel replied, “Yes, in peace; I have come to sacrifice to the Lord. Consecrate yourselves and come to the sacrifice with me.” Then he consecrated Jesse and his sons and invited them to the sacrifice.

6When they arrived, Samuel saw Eliab and thought, “Surely the Lord’s anointed stands here before the Lord.”
As can be seen, Samuel didn't know who the prophetic anointing pertained to.

7But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

8Then Jesse called Abinadab and had him pass in front of Samuel. But Samuel said, “The Lord has not chosen this one either.” 9Jesse then had Shammah pass by, but Samuel said, “Nor has the Lord chosen this one.” 10Jesse had seven of his sons pass before Samuel, but Samuel said to him, “The Lord has not chosen these.” 11So he asked Jesse, “Are these all the sons you have?”

“There is still the youngest,” Jesse answered. “He is tending the sheep.”

Samuel said, “Send for him; we will not sit down until he arrives.”

12So he sent for him and had him brought in. He was glowing with health and had a fine appearance and handsome features.

Then the Lord said, “Rise and anoint him; this is the one.”

13So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon David. Samuel then went to Ramah.
Without question, Samuel did not know the recipient till the moment the Lord showed him.

As can be seen above, revelation frequently comes progressively.

Again, this is really the same question answered above, but the "To whom it may concern" factor is answered even more vividly here.-
Matt17v10The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”
(This refers to a prophecy in Malachi)
11Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.
Up to that point, nobody understood who the prophecy related to.
ie. "To whom it may concern!"

No, you're wrong. Samuel didn't know the name, but the prophesy was for a specific person, and Samuel knew it was for a specific person.

Samuel did not cast out the prophesy, "To whom it may concern." The Lord led him to that specific person.

Francis Drake · Jan 18, 2021

RDKirk said:
No, you're wrong. Samuel didn't know the name, but the prophesy was for a specific person, and Samuel knew it was for a specific person.

Samuel did not cast out the prophesy, "To whom it may concern." The Lord led him to that specific person.

If that's what you meant by "To whom it may concern" then of course that's true.
But why ask the question then as nobody claimed otherwise.

mourningdove~ · Jan 18, 2021

Taodeching said:
Amen. The problem others who call themselves believers are always ready to lob stones

I think it is okay ... perhaps even helpful ... that others offer their discernment on prophesies.

... However, what I DO find quite 'peculiar' is when persons that rarely, if ever, post in this particular subforum ... come here at this particular time, to start tossing the stones.

How I would like to see such active participation in this subforum on a regular basis ... and not just when it appears to be 'open season' on false prophets ...

Francis Drake · Jan 18, 2021

SpiritPsalmist said:
In the OT all the prophets cried out with one bottom line "Repent". John the Baptizer cried out, "Repent". Why aren't any of those who call themselves prophets not doing this?

Because that's just your personal notion of what a prophet should be, but it's not God's.
The Spirit of prophecy goes where the Lord leads, and that is not always a call to repent

The OT and John weren't talking politics

Oh yes they were. A massive portion of OT prophecy is political!

nor were they speaking to the heathen,

The whole of the book of Jonah proves you wrong.

they were speaking to the people of God telling them to repent. In this day that would be those who claim to know Him, but their activities say different. Just a curious question I think.

You are clearly confused about the role of a prophet.
Prophecy may call for repentance, but frequently just reveals hidden truths, or future events, including a whole load of politics.

Gregory Thompson · Jan 18, 2021

lismore said:
Hello Michael. I wasn't intending my reply to be a gotcha game it's just that the premise of your question doesn't exist: 'So if God says something to you, and it doesn't happen'

It's like asking why is the grass blue or the sky green.

If God says something to you then it will happen. God Bless

I agree it doesn't exist. However, in the grammatical ambiguity by not adding more words to the sentence, it opens the floor up for more discussion - which was my intention.

Gregory Thompson · Jan 18, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
What point are you making?

Prophecy has specific teachings on how to analyze it. However a word of knowledge isn't much different than a writing piece that is encouraging though a bit misguided, or a sermon that has falsehood in it. Different process to approach.

Gregory Thompson · Jan 18, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Well back in the 70's we had a significant move of God and unity of purpose was far more prominent than agreed dogma - in fact no one cared much about that, it was all hands to the pump, folks comig in from the street in repentance - we were unified in the Gospel and moving in the gifts.

The greater the unity, the greater the revival. However, the failure of most revivals is people get excited and overlook differences in interest of working in Christ - and then some heretic comes by and points out all the errors - and the people actually listen - this ends the revival.

Thus having a unity of doctrine is actually important since it would hold back people who go to church, but may not be born again - but use service as a means to leverage their opinions.

geetrue · Jan 18, 2021

I hope my first prophecy doesn't come true ... it was back in 1994 while on my knees praying in the back of a 50' abandoned trailer on an Orange farm in Southern California after I had already been living on the streets of Southern California for nine years (still had 6 more years to go) and the Lord sent an Angel who said, "Would you like to have something to pray for"? I of course said, "Yes" and then the Angel said, "Pray for North Dakota a large star is going to fall on North Dakota" I sure tried to pray and just when I thought I had done a good job ... the Angel would remind me of something like, "What about the teachers and the doctors"? I'll never forget it ... My first assignment to pray for something of course it hasn't happen yet, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.
Faith is substance of things hope for evidence of things not seen Amen

Carl Emerson · Jan 19, 2021

Michael Collum said:
The greater the unity, the greater the revival. However, the failure of most revivals is people get excited and overlook differences in interest of working in Christ - and then some heretic comes by and points out all the errors - and the people actually listen - this ends the revival.

Thus having a unity of doctrine is actually important since it would hold back people who go to church, but may not be born again - but use service as a means to leverage their opinions.

Maybe what killed the move varies from place to place - where I lived it was killed by two factors...

First was control - the leadership were outside their comfort zone in knowledge and experience - they legislated against certain aspects of the move in unbelief.

Second they opposed the formation of home based churches which would have carried the revival with much more effect. It was a matter of the need to support 'mother church' and they didn't want to have a financial deficit as new churches were born.

The Spirit was quenched for these two reasons. Years later I heard the Pastor publicly repent of how he handled the move.

Carl Emerson · Jan 19, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Prophecy has specific teachings on how to analyze it. However a word of knowledge isn't much different than a writing piece that is encouraging though a bit misguided, or a sermon that has falsehood in it. Different process to approach.

That has not been my experience - I have known 'word of knowledge' to be pivotal in bringing conviction particularly during counselling.

Hazelelponi · Jan 19, 2021

RDKirk said:
"Let everything be proven by two or three witnesses."

When the pastor makes an assertion, two or three of the listeners in the congregation should get confirmation from the Holy Spirit and render an "amen" as witnesses. That's why old-time pastors asked, "Can I get an 'amen'" or "Can I get a witness?"

Thank you for this explanation... I've wondered about that. Never really knew what it was though.

Gregory Thompson · Jan 19, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Maybe what killed the move varies from place to place - where I lived it was killed by two factors...

First was control - the leadership were outside their comfort zone in knowledge and experience - they legislated against certain aspects of the move in unbelief.

Second they opposed the formation of home based churches which would have carried the revival with much more effect. It was a matter of the need to support 'mother church' and they didn't want to have a financial deficit as new churches were born.

The Spirit was quenched for these two reasons. Years later I heard the Pastor publicly repent of how he handled the move.

That all boils down to one motive of wanting to be in control, either you're in control or God is, take your pick. Same issue with other revivals.

It's like God saying He wants to do something new, but those He is doing the new thing through insist on doing the old thing, and try to grab hold of everyone else entering and ensure they also do "the old thing."

This move causes God to lose interest.

Gregory Thompson · Jan 19, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
That has not been my experience - I have known 'word of knowledge' to be pivotal in bringing conviction particularly during counselling.

Word of knowledge is very similar to what happens when you pray to interpret your tongue and then only say it in the common language, in this case English.

The passages regarding interpreting the tongue through prayer say this gift is on par with prophecy for edification value, but is not prophecy.

I would agree that word of knowledge can be of the same edification value as prophecy, but do not see it as prophecy. It is a separate gifting.

WrappedUpinHisLove · Jan 19, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
That has not been my experience - I have known 'word of knowledge' to be pivotal in bringing conviction particularly during counselling.

So have I . A very valuable gift and one still much used today in many congregations and ministries. Nice to be back @Carl Emerson

SpiritPsalmist · Jan 19, 2021

Francis Drake said:
Because that's just your personal notion of what a prophet should be, but it's not God's.
The Spirit of prophecy goes where the Lord leads, and that is not always a call to repent

Oh yes they were. A massive portion of OT prophecy is political!

The whole of the book of Jonah proves you wrong.

You are clearly confused about the role of a prophet.
Prophecy may call for repentance, but frequently just reveals hidden truths, or future events, including a whole load of politics.

I disagree with your conclusions.

When a person says, "God told me such and such is going to happen, and it doesn't, then I heard wrong." With Jonah, it had always been God's nature to forgive when there was repentance. It was not something that Jonah was not aware of. He knew that in the event his message to Ninevah brought repentance, that God would forgive (even the heathen), and HE did. That is why Jonah did not want to tell the message because there was the possibility they would repent. We must make doctrinal conclusions on the "whole" of scripture, not just one book that makes it sound like a prophet can speak and not be held accountable for speaking what maybe God did not say.

Please pay attention to the large word MAYBE. Only time will tell if these Trump prophesies are right.

GOD Shines Forth! · Jan 19, 2021

When he summoned a famine on the land
and broke all supply of bread,
he had sent a man ahead of them,
Joseph, who was sold as a slave.
His feet were hurt with fetters;
his neck was put in a collar of iron;
until what he had said came to pass,
the word of the LORD tested him.
The king sent and released him;
the ruler of the peoples set him free;
he made him lord of his house
and ruler of all his possessions,
to bind his princes at his pleasure
and to teach his elders wisdom.

Psalm 105:16-22

Discussion So if God says something to you and it doesn't happen ...

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