BLM member arrested for involvement in Capitol riot

grasping the after wind said:

Sounds very similar to last year's "mostly peaceful protesters." . Funny how the positions of so many have reversed on the subject of violent uprising.

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Not mine. Violence is violence no matter who's doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right, and your "whataboutism" nonsense is just sad.

Zergling Rush said:

This guy looks armed.

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Who wouldn’t expect a few bad apples in an orchard of 30,000?

atpollard said:

By your definition, most bar room brawls are "insurrections".

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What? You're *so* out in left field it's not even funny anymore. Your *rioters* were attempting to overthrow the government. Bar brawls have no such intent. Your argument is simply irrational.

Let's stick to the crimes that were actually committed.

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There were plenty of those crimes including murder. What about all those crimes which included murder and included the harm of over 50 police officers?

People are claiming an "armed insurrection" when the police were the ones doing the shooting.

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"Weapons" and "murder" are not limited to just "guns"! Sheesh. A fire extinguisher is a "weapon" if it's used as one.

People are claiming the mob had bombs when there were no bombs at the Capitol.

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Republican lies.

Capitol riots: Pipe bombs, cooler of Molotov cocktails found | wkyc.com

They were placed outside the RNC and DNC offices.

I admitted that a group of people were brawling with an Officer and someone hit him with a fire extinguisher (which means that person did not even bring a weapon to the Capitol with the intention to kill someone).

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This guys is not only "armed" with a weapon he brought *into* the Capitol, he also brought handcuffs.

[Hint: most people are not angry that Trump lost; they are angry because have lost confidence in the integrity of the process.

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That's because their "anger" was "incited" by a bunch of *lies* being told to them by the President and *numerous* Republican "leaders", and they don't have the intellectual capacity figure out they're being lied to, even *after* Trump lost over 60 court cases, including cases brought before judges that Trump himself appointed!

Calling everyone on the right a "terrorist" fans the flames of that anger and mistrust.

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Not everyone on the right is a terrorist, just the ones that stormed the Capitol and those who supported it.

Something to keep in mind is the 48% conservatives have many more guns than the 52% liberals ... so they COULD have come shooting if that was their intent. Clearly shooting was not their intent.]

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Guns aren't the only weapons on the planet.

BNR32FAN said:

Who wouldn’t expect a few bad apples in an orchard of 30,000?

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Trump supporters should *at least* stop trying to lie and claim that the rioters were unarmed.

Aryeh Jay said:

Since when is beating someone to death with a fire extinguisher murder?

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Since murder laws were first written I assume.

Michael said:

Not mine. Violence is violence no matter who's doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right, and your "whataboutism" nonsense is just sad.

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Glad to hear you were as staunch in opposition to the violent riots of last year as you are to this past one. I share that with you. People, unlike you it seems, often use the term whataboutism to deflect attention away from their hypocrisy when that hypocrisy is being pointed out. Pointing out hypocrisy is not the same as whataboutism which is making the argument that something is somehow justifiable because the other party does it too. I never argued that not opposing violent riots by one group is justified because another group did not oppose violent riots before. I only pointed out the general hypocrisy in the matter of violent riots where both people from both sides have changed positions based only upon who it is doing the rioting.

If someone notices that I am being hypocritical tell me. I want my hypocrisy pointed out to me so that I can examine it and reflect upon any double standards that I may allow to seep into my thinking. Hypocrisy is a common human trait after all.

My point that people seem to have reversed their positions on violent rioting remains completely valid. That does not include you so if my previous post seemed to imply that it did , I am very sorry and apologize for that. There surely are people who now condemn politically motivated violence that previously made excuses for it and people that in the past condemned it but are now are making excuses for it. I prefer when people consistently oppose violence and not just oppose it when it is someone that they disagree with politically that is perpetuating it.

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Moral Orel said:

What do you think it means to be armed?

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atpollard said:

What do you think it means that the only person shot was an unarmed protester shot by the police?

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Nothing. That angry mob had guns with them during the commission of their crime, they were armed.

Michael said:

Trump supporters should *at least* stop trying to lie and claim that the rioters were unarmed.

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I agree but I think both sides are equally at fault where one side seems to inflate the situation and the other seems to downplay it, but we have to expect that in any group of this magnitude there will of course be some extremist idiots mixed in the group. That shouldn’t result in accusations towards the entire group but rather the individuals themselves. Personally I have to say that the amount of weapons, injuries, and deaths do not reflect a high percentage of violent members within the group of 30,000 people. I would say the percentage is probably less than 1% given the amount of person harm that resulted.

grasping the after wind said:

Glad to hear you were as staunch in opposition to the violent riots of last year as you are to this past one. I share that with you. People, unlike you it seems, often use the term whataboutism to deflect attention away from their hypocrisy when that hypocrisy is being pointed out. Pointing out hypocrisy is not the same as whataboutism which is making the argument that something is somehow justifiable because the other party does it too. I never argued that not opposing violent riots by one group is justified because another group did not oppose violent riots before. I only pointed out the general hypocrisy in the matter of violent riots where both people from both sides have changed positions based only upon who it is doing the rioting.

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The hypocrisy of the black lives matter movement.

Contrary to Republican "assumptions", not all democrats even support the BLM movement let alone condone violence.

If someone notices that I am being hypocritical tell me. I want my hypocrisy pointed out to me so that I can examine it and reflect upon any double standards that I may allow to seep into my thinking. Hypocrisy is a common human trait after all.

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Indeed, but it's not rational to assume that all democrats are somehow supportive of violence committed by the BLM movement or even support the BLM movement in the first place.

My point that people seem to have reversed their positions on violent rioting remains completely valid. That does not include you so if my previous post seemed to imply that it did , I am very sorry and apologize for that. There surely are people who now condemn politically motivated violence that previously made excuses for it and people that in the past condemned it but are now are making excuses for it. I prefer when people consistently oppose violence and not just oppose it when it is someone that they disagree with politically that is perpetuating it.

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Like I said, violence is wrong, regardless of who's doing it. MLK understood the value of having the moral high ground and in appealing to the morality of the individual. Non-violence is the most effective path to social change, not looting and pillaging one's own neighborhoods.

Michael said:

The hypocrisy of the black lives matter movement.

Contrary to Republican "assumptions", not all democrats even support the BLM movement let alone condone violence.



Indeed, but it's not rational to assume that all democrats are somehow supportive of violence committed by the BLM movement or even support the BLM movement in the first place.



Like I said, violence is wrong, regardless of who's doing it. MLK understood the value of having the moral high ground and in appealing to the morality of the individual. Non-violence is the most effective path to social change, not looting and pillaging one's own neighborhoods.

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The rioting and looting has little or nothing to do with the actual issues that cause the protest. These are merely the result of people acting in their lust for carnage and anarchy plain & simple. The cause doesn’t benefit at all by stealing merchandise, only the individuals doing the stealing are benefiting from it.

BNR32FAN said:

I agree but I think both sides are equally at fault where one side seems to inflate the situation and the other seems to downplay it, but we have to expect that in any group of this magnitude there will of course be some extremist idiots mixed in the group.

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But democrats are not "at fault" for wanting and expecting a peaceful transfer of power without riots at the Capitol. It was *Republicans*, starting with Trump, his lawyer and his various congressmen who have continuously perpetuated *lies* about a "stolen* election that wasn't "stolen" in the first place!

I don't blame *all* Republicans for the riots in DC. Folks like Mitt Romney did their best to "tell the truth", but too many Republicans lie to their fellow Republicans and nearly 3/4th of Republicans *still* believe those lies.

Some of them continue to make excuses for the violence at the Capitol too. That's simply disgusting IMO.

BNR32FAN said:

The rioting and looting has little or nothing to do with the actual issues that cause the protest.

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What "caused" it are the outrageous and dangerous lies that Trump and his fellow Republicans have been telling for *months* about wide spread voter fraud. Nothing of the sort took place. That's what "caused" those riots.

Jenna Ryan wants a pardon......

“I don’t feel a sense of shame or guilty from my heart. I feel like I was basically following my president. I was following what we were called to do. He asked us to fly there. He asked us to be there. So I was doing what he asked us to do,”

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These are merely the result of people acting in their lust for carnage and anarchy plain & simple. The cause doesn’t benefit at all by stealing merchandise, only the individuals doing the stealing are benefiting from it.

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It's not that simple actually. The problem started with *incitement* that was based upon repeated lies told over a period of *months* by *numerous* individuals, starting with Trump and numerous Republican "leaders".

Listen to what Jenna said. In her mind she was "patriotic" and doing exactly what she thought her President wanted her to do. Why do you think she believed that?

At least the BLM movement is based upon *facts* related to *real* police brutality.

Michael said:

Like I said, violence is wrong, regardless of who's doing it. MLK understood the value of having the moral high ground and in appealing to the morality of the individual. Non-violence is the most effective path to social change, not looting and pillaging one's own neighborhoods.

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Exactly right. It is also the most effective path to political change.

Michael said:

What "caused" it are the outrageous and dangerous lies that Trump and his fellow Republicans have been telling for *months* about wide spread voter fraud. Nothing of the sort took place. That's what "caused" those riots.

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Nah I don’t buy it. That’s the excuse they used to justify their rambunctious behavior, but it’s not the actual cause of it. No to these people carnage is fun. They love it and look for any excuse to engage in it. I’d be willing to bet that the people who engaged in it had a previous criminal history. That’s why the majority of the people didn’t engage in these activities, because the majority of people have self control and are governed by an inner sense of right & wrong. You shouldn’t make excuses for people breaking the law. Who cares what Trump said, it didn’t give anyone the right to act out in violence. Your simply blaming Trump for the actions of unstable people who had no real cause for their actions other than their own lust for violence.

BNR32FAN said:

Nah I don’t buy it. That’s the excuse they used to justify their rambunctious behavior, but it’s not the actual cause of it.

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Here's what Jenna said:

“I don’t feel a sense of shame or guilty from my heart. I feel like I was basically following my president. I was following what we were called to do. He asked us to fly there. He asked us to be there. So I was doing what he asked us to do,”

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Jenna just told you what motivated her to show up in DC and go into the Capitol. What justification do you have to ignore her own personal testimony?

No to these people carnage is fun.

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I don't think Jenna thought that "carnage is fun". She's a real estate agent. I think she honestly believed that she was justified in her actions because she (falsely) believed that the election was "rigged", just like her President and many prominent Republicans have been telling (lying to) her for *months*.

They love it and look for any excuse to engage in it. I’d be willing to bet that the people who engaged in it had a previous criminal history.

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Actually it's been shown that many of those who participated in the riots had no criminal history.

TBI: Capitol riot suspect had no criminal history in Tennessee | WKRN News 2

And this was the guy they filmed inside the Capitol *with* a weapon, and *with* handcuffs.

That’s why the majority of the people didn’t engage in these activities, because the majority of people have self control and are governed by an inner sense of right & wrong.

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Well, sure, most of those who went to DC on the 6th to protest didn't commit violence, nor did they enter the Capitol. Something however drove *thousands* of them to riot.

You shouldn’t make excuses for people breaking the law.

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I don't, not even those who *incited* the violence.

Who cares what Trump said,

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I do. It's called "incitement". It's like saying I don't care that some guy lied and screamed "fire" in the crowded theater, only those who trampled other people in the theater were at fault for the aftermath. I don't buy that.

it didn’t give anyone the right to act out in violence.

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It didn't give them the "right", but it did give them the *idea*, particularly when Trump called them to DC on the 6th to start with, Trump's personal lawyer is talking about "trial by combat", another of Trump's speakers at the rally is talking about "kicking ass", and Trump lied to them for *months* about a supposedly "stolen" election and lied to them for *hours* right before the riots.

Your simply blaming Trump for the actions of unstable people who had no real cause for their actions other than their own lust for violence.

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No, I blame Trump because he is their *ringleader* and he repeatedly lied to them, he urged them to show up that day, and his chosen speakers (and him) were inciting violence at that rally.

Trump isn't an innocent choir boy. His name was on all those flags and hats, and his lies were constantly being repeated *by those rioters* during the invasion of the Capitol. "Stop the steal" was heard over and over again throughout the riots. That exact phase was used by Trump during the preceding rally.

Well I don’t know who Jenna is.

Michael said:

Actually it's been shown that many of those who participated in the riots had no criminal history.

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No it’s actually been shown that one of those who participated in the riots had no criminal history. You see how you just exaggerated the truth there? The article you posted only referred to one person.

Michael said:

No, I blame Trump because he is their *ringleader* and he repeatedly lied to them, he urged them to show up that day, and his chosen speakers (and him) were inciting violence at that rally.

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Would you blame God for the inquisitions? He did say twice that He wants all men to be saved.

atpollard said:

Wikipedia is not a reliable source in a time of heavy censorship of dissenting opinions, however, I stand corrected: He was a British Spy that fabricated a report based on rumors for the DNC that turned out to be false.

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I eagerly await your evidence of the underlined.

BNR32FAN said:

Well I don’t know who Jenna is.

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She's one of the rioters who entered the Capitol who was later arrested. AFAIK she has no criminal history either.

No it’s actually been shown that one of those who participated in the riots had no criminal history. You see how you just exaggerated the truth there? The article you posted only referred to one person.

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Wow. Talk about blatant hypocrisy.

Nah I don’t buy it. That’s the excuse they used to justify their rambunctious behavior, but it’s not the actual cause of it. No to these people carnage is fun. They love it and look for any excuse to engage in it. I’d be willing to bet that the people who engaged in it had a previous criminal history.

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You simply handwaved in a bogus claim (with no evidence whatsoever) that they had a criminal history. When I showed you at that not all of them have such a history, you accuse *me* of "exaggerating the truth"? Wow.

I'll see if I can't round up a few more links because I recall reading that others who were involved in the riots also had no criminal history. Some of them were ex-military, and some were even politicians from various states.

Nearly a dozen ex-military members among those arrested in connection with Capitol riot

The Air Force confirmed to ABC News that Lt. Col. Brock retired in 2014 after more than two decades of service, noting he had served as an A-10 pilot until 2007.

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Pro-Trump State Lawmaker Among Rioters Charged with Storming US Capitol

Veteran took "cache of firepower" to D.C. ahead of riot, prosecutors say

A federal magistrate complied with the request when Coffman appeared in court on Thursday, where he was told he would be held without bond, despite having no prior convictions.

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Coffman, the guy who brought a whole bunch of weapons with him apparently also had no prior criminal history. How "many" such examples would you like? Care to support your claims that they (presumably most) had prior criminal records?