CARNAL UNDERSTANDING VS. SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING

Bible Highlighter · Jan 16, 2021

FaithWillDo said:
Dear Bible Highlighter,
The people who came to "hear" the word of God were hearing it carnally with human ears. Unless a person as the Latter Rain of the Spirit, they cannot hear the Word of God spiritually (the spiritual happens within us). It will remain written on tablets of stone or scrolls of paper. That is why Christ frequently says "for those who have eyes that can see and ears that can hear". When one has ears that can hear the spiritual, we see Christ as the spiritual fulfillment of the word of God and He communicates to us from "within" us. But a person must be "born again" to see and hear Christ as the spiritual Word of God. Because of such, people who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit still see and hear the word of God as being the physical word of God written on paper.
Joe

What is the difference between...

(a) Hearing and understanding the literal message of physical words on a page? vs.
(b) Hearing and understanding the non-physical words that are spiritual?

Is there like some kind of secret way God talks to you that is not present on the physical page but can only be seen sight unseen? Is your message that you get from God's Word go beyond what the physical Word says on the paper? Is that what you are saying? That there are words hidden that nobody else can see?

For are you not using the physical words on the page of the Bible to teach?
If you no longer regard the physical words in the Bible, then why are you quoting from them? It sounds like your belief is contradictory, friend.

aiki · Jan 16, 2021

FaithWillDo said:
Scripture is written in words that are spirit.

What does this even mean? The words on the pages of my Bible reveal to me spiritual truth, but the words themselves are not spirit, they are formed of ink pressed onto paper.

FaithWillDo said:
If a believer does not have their spiritual blindness healed by Christ, then they are simply not going to be able to understand scripture.

Yes. I understand Scripture pretty well, having been a born-again believer for nearly fifty years and student of God's word for most of that time.

FaithWillDo said:
He wrote scripture in this manner to cause us to "fall backward and be broken".

In what manner, exactly?

FaithWillDo said:
Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and ANOTHER TONGUE will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Here you go again, taking Scripture out of context and badly misapplying it. In context, Isaiah is speaking of priests who have become drunks:

Isaiah 28:7-8
7 And these also reel with wine and stagger from strong drink: The priest and the prophet reel with strong drink, They are confused by wine, they stagger from strong drink; They reel while having visions, They totter when rendering judgment.
8 For all the tables are full of filthy vomit, without a single clean place.

In Hebrew, verse 10 mimics the sound of the stammering person described in verse 11:

"...tzav latzav, tzav latzav, gav laqav, gav laquav."

And those who "go, and fall backward" and are "broken, snared and taken" are actually the drunken priests of verse 7, not Christian believers. The passage from Isaiah 28, then, has no application directly to Christians at all (except vaguely, perhaps, to drunken ones). But, when you throw off the vital constraint of context, you can make Scripture say whatever you want it to!

FaithWillDo said:
Christ's speaks to us in "another tongue" which uses "spirit" words. The spirit words have meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches.

This is silly. On what basis should I accept that you understand these "spirit words" better than I do, or that such words even exist in the manner you say they do? Just your say-so? On your "spirit-word" view, what's to prevent anyone from asserting anything about Scripture if the "spirit words" of the Bible may be entirely torn from their context and made to say whatever "spiritual" thing a person wants to assert from them?

What you are doing, essentially, is making yourself the Final Arbiter of God's truth, not the Scripture itself. You are also denying the fundamental nature of language and reason - given to us by God - in order to interpret Scripture as you are. In fact, when you make an assertion about Scripture, your position is so confused that you both at once deny and depend on the basic referential nature of language. You say on one hand, "Scripture doesn't mean what it says!" but then assert something from it that you believe it is saying. How can you come to any conclusion about Scripture's meaning if nothing it says is actually what it means?

FaithWillDo said:
1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Paul says to learn the meaning of these spiritual words by comparing them with how they are used elsewhere in scripture (comparing spiritual with spiritual). I gave the example of the word "sword" and it is easy to see that it represents the Word of God who is Christ.

No, Paul doesn't say anything about "spiritual words" here. He contrasts words teaching "man's wisdom" and words the Spirit uses to teach God's wisdom. Paul's focus is not on the nature of the words themselves, but on the ideas, the truths, that they communicate.

Many words in Scripture are used in a wide variety of ways depending on the context in which they are employed. The word "love" is a good example. In Scripture, "love" is used to mean phileo love, or eros love, or storge love, or agape love. You can't, then, simply rummage about in the Bible for instances where the word is used and link them all together as though they are all talking about the same kind of love. They aren't. The same is true of the word rendered "hell" in Scripture. "Hell" may refer to "hades," or "sheol," or "gehenna." If you mix up these different meanings of the word, you may quickly become entangled in highly confused and erroneous notions about the afterlife.

Your example of "sword" also demonstrates the big problem with this proof-texting chain you are employing. As I pointed out, the "sword" in view in Matthew 26 was not spiritual at all, but was a reference to Peter's hasty violent sword action in the Garden of Gethsemane. How does this "sword" link, then, to the sword proceeding out of Christ's mouth in Revelation 1? One is an actual, physical sword used to enact violence upon someone, and the other a clearly apocalyptic and figurative "sword" speaking to the divine judgment and punishment revealed in John's Revelation. These two "swords" couldn't be more different! But you have linked them together anyway. Yikes.

FaithWillDo said:
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Christ's meaning becomes clear. Those who take up the sword (Word of God, Christ) must die by the sword (Word of God, Christ). This is what happens when we are saved. When we "take up" Christ, we likewise will die by Christ. Water baptism teaches a similar spiritual message. Our Old Man dies as we are submerged in water (Holy Spirit) and we rise from the water a New Man in Christ.

This is silly and I have already explained why. I won't repeat myself, though I will point out that you have switched symbols mid-stream, moving from the imagery of the sword to that of baptism - two completely unlike things. But, throwing off proper interpretive hermeneutics, you can just twist Scripture to say whatever you want it to. I remember someone doing this early in Matthew 4...

FaithWillDo said:
From your comments, I can see that you do not understand the spiritual language of Christ so I do not expect you to agree with me.

This is just a facile way of avoiding having to actually make any real sense, a kind of self-declared spiritual elitism that you're asserting without any ground in Scripture from which to do so. Well, I don't accept your "spiritual language" nonsense and warn you again of the danger you are in both in being self-deceived and in being responsible for deceiving others.

2 Peter 2:1
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies...bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

FaithWillDo · Jan 17, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
You said before that the Word of God is not Scripture. What “Word of God” were they hearing in Acts of the Apostles 13:44?

Here are a few select options that you can choose from.

(a) Jesus.
(b) The Communicated Word of God (Spoken Word of God).
(c) The Communicated Word of God (Written Word of God).
(d) The Communicated Word of God (Not specifically mentioned but it could be either the written Word or the Spoken Word).
(e) Other (Please explain).

Side Note:

It sounds like you are referring to a communicated Word of God (Which proves that I was correct that the Word of God is a form of communication).

Dear Bible Highlighter,
I told you earlier that I made an adjustment to my opening statement. I agreed that Christ is the Word of God and that scripture is His word recorded by the prophets/saints. In recorded form it can be called the word of God or scripture.

Let me explain expand on that a little further:

Christ is the Word of God and scripture is a record of the word of God. Therefore, when Christ teaches us His truth, He does so by what He says and by what He does.

Scripture is written in Christ’s spiritual language, in words that are spirit. These spirit words have meanings that are different than what man’s wisdom teaches. Christ also uses actual events which carry symbolic meanings to teach us His spiritual truths.

When a person is Called Out after having received the Early Rain of the Spirit, they are left spiritually blind. Spiritual blindness means that they cannot understand and accept Christ’s spiritual teachings found in scripture. Their carnal mind tends to understand scripture in a literal and outward way.

Upon receiving the Latter Rain, the believer is changed from within and their spiritual blindness is healed. Now with the Holy Spirit as a guide, they have the ability to start understanding the spiritual teachings of Christ. They now tend to understand scripture in a symbolic and inward way.

Here is an example of the spiritual teaching of Christ:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All the Kingdom of Heaven parables are teaching about salvation. When the Kingdom of Heaven comes to a person, it comes “within” them and without observation. It is a strictly a spiritual event, meaning it happens in their heart and mind. Scripture also says that we don’t “live” by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. From this understanding, we know that all the parables apply within us and to all of us. God is not a respecter of persons and we all must travel the same pathway to salvation.

In the parable above, it likewise applies to everyone when the Kingdom of Heaven comes to them. It is the time of the Early Rain.

Here are the spiritual words:

Woman: blind leader of the blind, Called Out believer

Leaven: false teachings

Three: completeness

Meal: Truth of God

The parable teaches that a spiritually blind leader will hide false teachings in the complete truth of God until the whole truth of God is false. This leavened bread is then fed to the spiritually blind followers who do not know that the bread is leavened.

Are we in agreement now about the Word of God being Christ and that scripture is also called the word of God in physical form (written on paper)?

But as I stated above, the word of God is written in Christ's spiritual language. When we are still carnally minded, we cannot understand it. But when we take on the mind of Christ, the scripture begins to open up.
Joe

FaithWillDo · Jan 17, 2021

aiki said:
What does this even mean? The words on the pages of my Bible reveal to me spiritual truth, but the words themselves are not spirit, they are formed of ink pressed onto paper.

Yes. I understand Scripture pretty well, having been a born-again believer for nearly fifty years and student of God's word for most of that time.

In what manner, exactly?

Here you go again, taking Scripture out of context and badly misapplying it. In context, Isaiah is speaking of priests who have become drunks:

Isaiah 28:7-8
7 And these also reel with wine and stagger from strong drink: The priest and the prophet reel with strong drink, They are confused by wine, they stagger from strong drink; They reel while having visions, They totter when rendering judgment.
8 For all the tables are full of filthy vomit, without a single clean place.

In Hebrew, verse 10 mimics the sound of the stammering person described in verse 11:

"...tzav latzav, tzav latzav, gav laqav, gav laquav."

And those who "go, and fall backward" and are "broken, snared and taken" are actually the drunken priests of verse 7, not Christian believers. The passage from Isaiah 28, then, has no application directly to Christians at all (except vaguely, perhaps, to drunken ones). But, when you throw off the vital constraint of context, you can make Scripture say whatever you want it to!

This is silly. On what basis should I accept that you understand these "spirit words" better than I do, or that such words even exist in the manner you say they do? Just your say-so? On your "spirit-word" view, what's to prevent anyone from asserting anything about Scripture if the "spirit words" of the Bible may be entirely torn from their context and made to say whatever "spiritual" thing a person wants to assert from them?

What you are doing, essentially, is making yourself the Final Arbiter of God's truth, not the Scripture itself. You are also denying the fundamental nature of language and reason - given to us by God - in order to interpret Scripture as you are. In fact, when you make an assertion about Scripture, your position is so confused that you both at once deny and depend on the basic referential nature of language. You say on one hand, "Scripture doesn't mean what it says!" but then assert something from it that you believe it is saying. How can you come to any conclusion about Scripture's meaning if nothing it says is actually what it means?

No, Paul doesn't say anything about "spiritual words" here. He contrasts words teaching "man's wisdom" and words the Spirit uses to teach God's wisdom. Paul's focus is not on the nature of the words themselves, but on the ideas, the truths, that they communicate.

Many words in Scripture are used in a wide variety of ways depending on the context in which they are employed. The word "love" is a good example. In Scripture, "love" is used to mean phileo love, or eros love, or storge love, or agape love. You can't, then, simply rummage about in the Bible for instances where the word is used and link them all together as though they are all talking about the same kind of love. They aren't. The same is true of the word rendered "hell" in Scripture. "Hell" may refer to "hades," or "sheol," or "gehenna." If you mix up these different meanings of the word, you may quickly become entangled in highly confused and erroneous notions about the afterlife.

Your example of "sword" also demonstrates the big problem with this proof-texting chain you are employing. As I pointed out, the "sword" in view in Matthew 26 was not spiritual at all, but was a reference to Peter's hasty violent sword action in the Garden of Gethsemane. How does this "sword" link, then, to the sword proceeding out of Christ's mouth in Revelation 1? One is an actual, physical sword used to enact violence upon someone, and the other a clearly apocalyptic and figurative "sword" speaking to the divine judgment and punishment revealed in John's Revelation. These two "swords" couldn't be more different! But you have linked them together anyway. Yikes.

This is silly and I have already explained why. I won't repeat myself, though I will point out that you have switched symbols mid-stream, moving from the imagery of the sword to that of baptism - two completely unlike things. But, throwing off proper interpretive hermeneutics, you can just twist Scripture to say whatever you want it to. I remember someone doing this early in Matthew 4...

This is just a facile way of avoiding having to actually make any real sense, a kind of self-declared spiritual elitism that you're asserting without any ground in Scripture from which to do so. Well, I don't accept your "spiritual language" nonsense and warn you again of the danger you are in both in being self-deceived and in being responsible for deceiving others.

2 Peter 2:1
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies...bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Dear Aiki
Paul says that he teaches in words (spirit words) that have meanings different from what man's wisdom teaches. This is the language of Christ. It is a spiritual language and He speaks to us in this manner so that mankind cannot find the knowledge of God. That knowledge is revealed only to God's Elect after they have received the Latter Rain of the Spirit from Him.

After a person receives the Early Rain, they remain spiritually blind and carnally minded and still cannot find the truth of God. Christ explains what happens when this occurs:

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Christ is explaining what happens to a new believer when they are first Called Out. The "unclean spirit" represents our beliefs (what we receive into us as truth). The single unclean spirt represents our beliefs when we were an unbeliever. But because we have no ability to replace those beliefs with the truth of Christ at this time, the unclean spirit brings seven other unclean spirits back with him. These seven unclean spirits represent the spirit of antichrist. At this point, the new believer falls under the influence of Satan and is deceived by him. We then “fall away” back to works and become desolate (the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel). These words of Christ happen to all of us. If we don't experience what Christ says here, then He would never come a second time to us and reveal to us our true condition. And our true condition is that we have become a Man of Sin. When that condition is revealed to us, it is quite humbling. However, we can only see it AFTER we come out from Satan's deception. And to come out from it, Christ must return to us a second time and heal our spiritual blindness.

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

These verses apply to all of us too. I know you think they do not apply but they most certainly do. Our carnal mind fights against believing in them because it thinks and wants control over the steps we take in our spiritual journey. But Christ says that He is in control and He absolutely is. Christ says we must live by "every word that proceedth out of the mouth of God". Once you can come to believe this truth, realizing that you used to be spiritually blind is not anything special. It happens to everyone. God is not a respecter of persons. We all have to walk the same pathway that leads to Him. Some (the Chosen) complete this pathway in this present life but most do not complete it until the final age. I did not decide to make it this way, God did. Once you can accept this truth, the Free Will doctrine you believe will be destroyed from within you. Then you can relax and just accept the steps that Christ has laid out for you to walk. We must walk by faith and everything that Christ is putting us through teaches us to do just that. It is very humbling to know we have no power or control over our lives. God is in complete control.

I can tell by your comments that Christ has not prepared your heart to receive what He has shown me to be His truth. But according to God's word, He will someday:

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

Bible Highlighter · Jan 17, 2021

FaithWillDo said:
Dear Bible Highlighter,
I told you earlier that I made an adjustment to my opening statement. I agreed that Christ is the Word of God and that scripture is His word recorded by the prophets/saints. In recorded form it can be called the word of God or scripture.

Let me explain expand on that a little further:

Christ is the Word of God and scripture is a record of the word of God. Therefore, when Christ teaches us His truth, He does so by what He says and by what He does.

Scripture is written in Christ’s spiritual language, in words that are spirit. These spirit words have meanings that are different than what man’s wisdom teaches. Christ also uses actual events which carry symbolic meanings to teach us His spiritual truths.

When a person is Called Out after having received the Early Rain of the Spirit, they are left spiritually blind. Spiritual blindness means that they cannot understand and accept Christ’s spiritual teachings found in scripture. Their carnal mind tends to understand scripture in a literal and outward way.

Upon receiving the Latter Rain, the believer is changed from within and their spiritual blindness is healed. Now with the Holy Spirit as a guide, they have the ability to start understanding the spiritual teachings of Christ. They now tend to understand scripture in a symbolic and inward way.

Here is an example of the spiritual teaching of Christ:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All the Kingdom of Heaven parables are teaching about salvation. When the Kingdom of Heaven comes to a person, it comes “within” them and without observation. It is a strictly a spiritual event, meaning it happens in their heart and mind. Scripture also says that we don’t “live” by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. From this understanding, we know that all the parables apply within us and to all of us. God is not a respecter of persons and we all must travel the same pathway to salvation.

In the parable above, it likewise applies to everyone when the Kingdom of Heaven comes to them. It is the time of the Early Rain.

Here are the spiritual words:

Woman: blind leader of the blind, Called Out believer

Leaven: false teachings

Three: completeness

Meal: Truth of God

The parable teaches that a spiritually blind leader will hide false teachings in the complete truth of God until the whole truth of God is false. This leavened bread is then fed to the spiritually blind followers who do not know that the bread is leavened.

Are we in agreement now about the Word of God being Christ and that scripture is also called the word of God in physical form (written on paper)?

But as I stated above, the word of God is written in Christ's spiritual language. When we are still carnally minded, we cannot understand it. But when we take on the mind of Christ, the scripture begins to open up.
Joe

So you are in agreement with me now that the Word of God can refer to either Jesus or it can refer to the words written in physical form on paper?

If so, that is good. I am glad you see that your previous statement that says: “the Word of God is not Scripture” is in error. But you still say in your OP, “Trying to "literally" understand scripture will only produce confusion.” However, this kind of statement is deeply troubling. There is a personal reason why you do not want to read the Bible plainly, and it has nothing to do with the Bible telling you to do that.

For example: When I read John 3:16 literally, I take this to simply mean that God loves everyone and that the Father gave His only begotten Son (i.e. The incarnate Word or Jesus was sent to die on the cross for the world's sin) that if anyone believes (i.e. receives and follows) the Son (i.e. Jesus), they shall not perish (i.e. their soul will not be destroyed in hellfire), but they will have everlasting life (i.e. They will be with the Lord Jesus in His kingdom forever).

This is how I read John 3:16. I read it literally and there is no confusion in doing so. If you believe John 3:16 should not be read literally and by doing so leads to confusion, you are grossly misinterpreting Scripture. Granted, there are times the Bible does refer to things metaphorically. But this is not always the case.

Most Christians today do not accept what the Bible plainly says in parts of the Bible that refutes an odd belief they want to be true. Some believe in Calvinism and so they have to change many plainly written verses in the Bible to make it read in the way they want. Others want to justify a sin and still be saved type belief and thus again, they have to change plainly written verses in order to make this kind of belief work. Without a normal and straight forward reading of Scripture, you regulate the Scriptures to utter nonsense and you over spiritualize a meaning that is not intended by the text. While God's Word can go beyond the literal reading at times like with Messianic prophecies in the OT, that does not mean we should not read those Scriptures literally for understanding. That would lead to confusion, and nobody would be able to figure out what that special ultra message would be. The Bible is difficult enough as it is even reading in a literal way, and you want to make it even more difficult by saying it cannot be read literally. Yet, you quote verses literally in order to reach the conclusion that you must read all of Scripture in a non-literal way.

So what do you do when the Bible talks about the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? I know that Christ died for my sins and that He was buried and He was risen three days later on my behalf for salvation. This to me is the gospel of salvation and it is how we are initially and foundationally saved. But you are saying that this is wrong because I am reading this in a literal way. What is the ultra secret hidden message behind 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? This is what makes your interpreting Scripture scary and a gross distortion of God's Holy Word. Unless a person does not really care about what God's Word says, you will not get too many Christians agreeing with you here. You will simply get many Christians trying to rebuke you for your false interpretation of Scripture that even Calvinists and Eternal Security type Christians can see is wrong. For in your view: The Bible is speaking in riddles and cannot be read plainly. This is just wrong on so many levels.

If you do not agree, it is best we agree to disagree and move on.

FaithWillDo · Jan 17, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
So you are in agreement with me now that the Word of God can refer to either Jesus or it can refer to the words written in physical form on paper?

If so, that is good. I am glad you see that your previous statement that says: “the Word of God is not Scripture” is in error. But you still say in your OP, “Trying to "literally" understand scripture will only produce confusion.” So when I read John 3:16 literally, I take this to simply mean that God loves everyone and that the Father gave His only begotten Son (i.e. The incarnate Word or Jesus to die on the cross for the world's sin) that if anyone believes (i.e. receives and follows) the Son (i.e. Jesus), they shall not perish (i.e. their soul will not be destroyed in hellfire), but they will have everlasting life (i.e. They will be with the Lord Jesus in His kingdom forever).

This is how I read John 3:16. I read it literally and there is no confusion in doing so. If you believe John 3:16 should not be read literally and by doing so leads to confusion, you are grossly misinterpreting Scripture. Granted, there are times the Bible does refer to things metaphorically. But this is not always the case. Most Christians today do not accept what the Bible plainly says in parts of the Bible that refutes an odd belief they want to be true. Some believe in Calvinism and so they have to change many plainly written verses in the Bible to make it read in the way they want. Others want to justify a sin and still be saved type belief and thus again, they have to change plainly written verses in order to make this kind of belief work. Without a normal and straight forward reading of Scripture, you regulate the Scriptures to utter nonsense and you over spiritualize a meaning that is not intended by the text. While God's Word can go beyond the literal at times like Messianic prophecies in the OT, that does not mean we should not read those Scriptures literally. That would lead to confusion, and nobody would be able to figure out what that special ultra message would be. The Bible is difficult enough even reading in a literal way, and you want to make it even more difficult by adding some ultra layer of hidden meaning to all the verses in His Word. Yet, you quote verses literally verses in order to reach the conclusion that you must read all of Scripture in a non-literal way. So what do you do when the Bible talks about the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? I know that Christ died for my sins and that He was buried and He was risen three days later on my behalf for salvation. This to me is the gospel of salvation and it is how we are initially and foundationally saved. But you are saying that this is wrong because I am reading this in a literal way. What is the ultra secret hidden message behind 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? This is what makes your interpreting Scripture scary and a gross distortion if that is what you truly believe. Unless a person does not really care about what God's Word says, you will not get too many Christians agreeing with you here.

Dear Bible Highlighter,
The Word of God is Christ and the written "word of God" is the way Christ physically expresses Himself to a carnal world. First comes the natural, then comes the spiritual. Eventually, Christ will express Himself spiritually (within us) to all mankind and give us the ability to spiritually understand His written word.

The carnal mind cannot understand the truth of scripture.

In John 3:16, it is written in spiritual language like all of God's word is. Here is the verse:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God's "love" is not like man's love. His love for us "never fails". Man's love does and that is how the carnal mind sees God's love. The carnal mind thinks God is going to torment most of mankind in literal fire. What kind of love is that? It is man's love which "fails" and frequently harms the object of their love.

Also, who is the "only begotten Son"? The carnal mind thinks He is a member of a trinity. But scripture teaches that he was created by the Father and that the Father is His God and the Father is in full authority over Christ. He is truly the Son of God. Someday, all mankind will also be said to be "sons" of God. Do you believe we will become part of the trinity someday?

Also, who has the ability to believe in Christ since the carnal mind hates God? Our belief in Christ is a gift to us from God and is given to us only when God decides to give us that gift. Scripture teaches that we do not have a free will ability to make that decision of belief. No one seeks after God.

Also, what does it mean to perish? The carnal mind says it is to be in "hell" for eternity separated from God. But scripture says that to "perish" means to be forever dead with no consciousness. Death is the penalty of sin, not "hell" that the carnal mind has created.

Also, what is everlasting life? The carnal mind thinks it is getting to go to a place called heaven which will have streets of gold, a mansion to live in and all the food we want. But scripture says everlasting life is to have a life free from sin, a relationship with the Father through Christ and to be fully made in His image. That is why scripture says that once we are "born again" we dwell with Christ in heaven. Heaven is not a location, it is a spiritual state of being that is acceptable to God. When Christ accomplishes His work within us, we will be one of God's children.

The carnal mind of man really doesn't understand the meaning of John 3:16.

Why do you think God made scripture so difficult to understand? Especially since you believe a person must make a wise free will decision to accept Christ in order to be saved? Wouldn't God make scripture very easy to understand if our salvation depended on us understanding it? Surely He would not teach us in "another tongue" - a spiritual language full of symbols, parables and types? Why does God teach us in a "mystery" since our very lives depend on understanding His Word?

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Why would God say:

Matt 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Ecc 3:11 He (God) has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put OBSCURITY in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

From your point of view, it makes no sense for God to conceal His truth from us if God really loves us and wants us to make a free will decision to accept Christ.

Do you think there might be a chance that you do not understand God's word and the pathway of salvation?

Christ says this is why a carnally minded believer cannot understand His words:

Mark 8:15-21 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, HOW IS IT THAT YE DO NOT UNDERSTAND?

In these verses, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on spiritual language - His language. At this point in time (before Pentecost), the disciples have not received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and were spiritually blind. They simply could not understand what Christ was teaching them. After Christ’s short lesson, He ends it by asking them this question: “How is it that ye do not understand”? No response is recorded in scripture, however, Christ answers His own question in the very next 4 verses.

Mark 8:22-25 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Christ speaks to us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, He goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer through the type and shadow of His healing of a blind man.

In these verses, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes that the blind man remains carnally minded. The “spit” (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (eyes, understanding). After Christ asks him what he could see, the blind man looks up and says that he could see men walking as trees. "Walking as trees" is a symbol for Called Out believers of which the blind man is now one. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted. This “first healing” of the blind man reflects our spiritual condition when we first enter the Church. At that time, we are left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. Peter says this condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 4:19 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

In the final verse of the story, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again but this time, Christ has the man “look up”. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit (second coming of Christ) when true spiritual vision is given to the believer. The man’s upward gaze represents this heavenly aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down. From that moment onward, we know that the blind man is a Called and Chosen believer. We can now know that the blind man is one of Christ’s Elect, a First Fruit of the harvest of mankind.

Mankind has no free will ability to save themselves. We are totally dependent on Christ coming to us and changing us from within WITHOUT us asking Him to do it. Once He changes us, we willingly accept Him and are lead by Him down the pathway that leads to life. He will accomplish this for all mankind. The First Fruits of His harvest are saved now in this age. All others will be saved in the final age - the age when you believe most of mankind will be burning in fire.
Joe

aiki · Jan 17, 2021

FaithWillDo said:
Paul says that he teaches in words (spirit words) that have meanings different from what man's wisdom teaches.

No, Paul never says this. He never wrote of "spirit words," only of common words with familiar meanings that express spiritual truth. If I say "Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, Saviour of the world," I have declared one of the greatest spiritual truths there is and have done so using common, familiar words. I could use almost all of the very same words, however, to communicate a completely unspiritual truth: "Jon is the only begotten son of Dan, member of the world." The words used to communicate two very different kinds of truth are almost entirely the same. The words haven't changed in their fundamental nature, only in the content of the things to which they refer.

There is, then, no such thing as "spirit words." There are just words whose meaning is common and largely unchanging that are used to refer to ideas and objects that may or may not be spiritual in content.

FaithWillDo said:
This is the language of Christ. It is a spiritual language and He speaks to us in this manner so that mankind cannot find the knowledge of God. That knowledge is revealed only to God's Elect after they have received the Latter Rain of the Spirit from Him.

Nowhere is this stated in the Bible. There are spiritual truths communicated to us in everyday language, but there is no such thing as a "spirit language." Spiritual truth in its fullness is a mystery to the unbeliever, but the words themselves used to communicate spiritual truth are the same words used to communicate non-spiritual truth and can do so because they have a standard, common meaning that remains largely unchanged. This is why some non-believers can explain the Gospel very clearly, even quoting the appropriate Scriptures in their explanations, laying out the Gospel in a coherent and accurate way. And this is so because language itself does not transform into some enigmatic, indecipherable "spirit language" when it is used to communicate spiritual truth. The facts of the faith are not obscured to the non-believer, just the understanding that these facts are actually divine, life-changing and eternal truth.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Latter Rain of the Spirit," though I am familiar with the Latter Rain movement that has been reconstituted today under the NAR umbrella, espousing several false doctrines and blasphemous spiritual practices.

FaithWillDo said:
Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Christ is explaining what happens to a new believer when they are first Called Out. The "unclean spirit" represents our beliefs (what we receive into us as truth). The single unclean spirt represents our beliefs when we were an unbeliever. But because we have no ability to replace those beliefs with the truth of Christ at this time, the unclean spirit brings seven other unclean spirits back with him. These seven unclean spirits represent the spirit of antichrist. At this point, the new believer falls under the influence of Satan and is deceived by him. We then “fall away” back to works and become desolate (the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel). These words of Christ happen to all of us. If we don't experience what Christ says here, then He would never come a second time to us and reveal to us our true condition. And our true condition is that we have become a Man of Sin. When that condition is revealed to us, it is quite humbling. However, we can only see it AFTER we come out from Satan's deception. And to come out from it, Christ must return to us a second time and heal our spiritual blindness.

Well, you make these assertions about Christ's words in Matthew 12 but you offer no good, biblical reason to accept your assertions as true. Certainly, nothing you've proposed about the meaning of Christ's words can be reasonably grounded in the passage itself. Basically, you're just offering your own spin on Christ's words and expecting others to accept them as correct merely on your say-so. But your mere say-so has no authority at all. None. Why, then, have you come to think simply saying "This is what Scripture means!" is sufficient to establish that you're correct?

Anyway, your interpretation above is interesting in its peculiar departure from what Christ actually says in the passage. But, again, you're just making bald assertions about the meaning of the passage without establishing from the passage itself that what you're saying is correct.

What's really crazy about your interpretation is that it ignores Christ's own explanation of his words:

Matthew 12:43-45
43 "Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it.
44 "Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came'; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order.
45 "Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation."

In the Gospel of Luke, there is the same account of Christ speaking these words, but there is more context offered and further explanation:

Luke 11:15-26
15 But some of them said, "He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons."
16 Others, to test Him, were demanding of Him a sign from heaven.
17 But He knew their thoughts and said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls.
18 "If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.
19 "And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? So they will be your judges.
20 "But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
21 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.
22 "But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder.
23 "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters.
24 "When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.'
25 "And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order.
26 "Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first."

The unclean spirit story is offered by Christ in response to the blasphemous words of the Pharisees who had said his exorcism of a possessed man was the work of the demonic. In context, the man freed of the unclean spirits is a description of the condition of the wicked Pharisees; it is NOT a description of born-again believers.

You see, then, how twisted your "spirit language" ideas have made your understanding of Scripture. The effect of your erroneous ideas is so bad, in fact, that you have applied the words of Christ, aimed at the wicked, to Christians!

FaithWillDo said:
2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

These verses apply to all of us too. I know you think they do not apply but they most certainly do. Our carnal mind fights against believing in them because it thinks and wants control over the steps we take in our spiritual journey.

??? I believe the words written by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2; I just don't accept your twisting of them.

It is your "carnal mind" that is partly responsible for the horrible wrenching of God's word that you are trying to promote and defend. Your whole "spirit language" approach situates you such that you become a sort of oracle of God, dispensing "hidden spiritual truth" to the less spiritual and/or carnal Christians around you. You have put yourself in the place of the Holy Spirit as a teacher of God's truth. But, this is what carnality always does, placing Self where God ought to be.

FaithWillDo said:
I can tell by your comments that Christ has not prepared your heart to receive what He has shown me to be His truth.

This is how cult leaders talk. They try to suspend examination and criticism of their thinking and doctrines by proclaiming their critics too spiritually-ignorant to make a proper assessment of them. But, of course, the only "proper critics" in the mind of the cult leader are those who are no critics at all, who accept entirely all s/he proposes. In this way, cult leaders try to insulate themselves from any challenge. And they must do so, because they can't actually offer any reasonable defense of their ideas and behaviour that doesn't first accept their ideas and behaviour as reasonable - a very circular sort of thinking upon which cult leaders typically in some measure rely.

In any event, I can tell from your comments that you are, at present, too far deceived to see that you are. This is the terrifying thing about such deception. But, God is faithful, and, if you are truly one of His, He'll disabuse you of your false ideas at some point. Hopefully, His doing so won't cause you too much pain. I pray, though, that He'll protect others from the deception under which you are laboring and wanting to spread around.

FaithWillDo · Jan 17, 2021

Dear Aiki,

Here is what Christ said:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Christ directly says His words are "spirit". Since Christ is the Word of God, everything He taught used words that are spirit.

Here is what Paul said about these spirit words:

1Cor 2:11-14 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

These spirit words have meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches. Then Paul go on to say that the Holy Spirit teaches us how to understand them - we must compare spiritual words with how those same spirit words are used elsewhere in scripture. The "natural" man who is carnally minded cannot understand God's word.

God's word also says:

Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Christ speaks to us through scripture. The above verse is how He speaks to not only the Jews but to everyone who reads scripture. He speaks with "another tongue" and that tongue is the spiritual language of Christ. He speaks to us in this manner so that no one but those whom He has Chosen can understand His meaning:

Matt 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you (the Elect) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (those not Chosen) it is not given.

Even the apostles could not understand and Christ had to "open their understanding" so that they could understand.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures...

Why was it necessary for Christ to open the understanding of the apostles? Because Christ's words are spirit and without the Holy Spirit, they could not understand Him. Everything that Christ teaches in scripture uses spirit words so as to keep His truth hidden. When a believer has their spiritual understanding healed, they have "ears that can hear, and eyes that can see:

Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Only then can a believer find the treasure of God:

Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

As a chosen believer travels the pathway that leads to salvation, when does Christ heal their spiritual blindness so that they can understand His truth? It happens at the Latter Rain of the Spirit.

Paul's conversion is the pattern we all must follow.

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Because Paul's conversion "typed" for us the pattern, it is very detailed in scripture. When Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road, the Early Rain fell on Paul and he fell to his knees can called Christ "Lord". At this time, Paul became "blind" which "typed" the spiritual blindness that we all experience at this time. Then for three days (the completeness of God) in Damascus, Paul laid in bed and could not eat. This too carries a spirit meaning. It "types" for us our "fallen away spiritual state and our lack of being able to understand God's word (can't eat or drink). Then after the three days, the Latter Rain fell on Paul and his blindness was healed. He was given "meat" to eat which "types" his new ability to understand the truth of Christ.

Until Christ comes to a person and gives them the Early and Latter Rain, they cannot be saved. Scripture says that "many are called, but few are chosen. All believers receive the Early Rain of the Spirit but only a "few" have been chosen by Christ to be saved in this age. Only they receive the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Christ's second coming) and are saved.

The Parable of the Ten Virgins teaches this same understanding:

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto TEN virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

The parable begins by showing us Ten Virgins. The term “Virgins” symbolizes all believers who have been Called to be saints. They are looking for the return of Christ for their marriage to Him.

The number TEN is also a symbol which carries a meaning different from the one man’s wisdom teaches. In spiritual language, the number TEN is the completeness of our carnal nature (flesh) which occurs during the time between the Early and Latter Rains. At that time, the believer remains under Law.

I’ll explain.

After an individual first receives the Early Rain of the Holy Spirit (Christ’s first appearing to an unbeliever), they are called out from the world to be saints. However, they remain carnally minded and are veiled from knowing God. This spiritually blind and carnal state is the same state in which the Israelites found themselves shortly after they were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea (Red Sea).

1Cor 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

Through Moses, Christ separated out the Nation of Israel to be His own people. In other words, they were “called out”. Upon leaving Egypt, they were baptized unto Moses in the Cloud (veil of our carnality) and in the Sea (separated from the sea of humanity). The Christian water baptism corresponds to this baptism.

After this baptism, a Called believer quickly falls away from Grace through Faith and comes under Law, just as the Israelites "typed". Without the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), our carnal nature rules our walk and tries to gain God’s acceptance through the Works of the Law. At this time, we are not given the ability to walk by Grace through Faith after our initial Early Rain baptism.

Once we fall away from Grace through Faith to the Works of the Law, our carnality devolves into a worsened state. In due season, Christ will cry out to us to repent. After we do, the path is made ready for Christ to appear to us a second time (Latter Rain, Heb 9:28) to heal our spiritual vision. This event is referred to by Paul as the Day of the Lord and is when the Man of Sin (who we have become) is revealed (2Thes 2:3).

The Lamp in verse 1 represents the Old Covenant of Law and the “Oil” with which it is filled represents the anointing of Early Rain of the Holy Spirit. The Light that the Lamp gives off is the truth of the Law which lights the pathway to Christ.

Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

When the original Oil burns out and is replaced with New Oil, the Lamp then symbolizes the New Covenant of the Spirit. The New Oil represents the anointing of the Latter Rain of the Holy Spirit. The Light that the Lamp gives off represents the Truth of the Spirit.

The Bridegroom represents Christ.

Mat 25:2 And FIVE of them were Wise, and FIVE were Foolish.

The parable continues with two additional symbols: FIVE Wise Virgins and FIVE Foolish Virgins. The number FIVE is a symbol for how we relate to God. The FIVE Foolish Virgins represent those who have been Called to be saints but who will remain under the Law until their physical deaths. The FIVE Wise Virgins represent those who have been Called & Chosen to be saints. They will for a time be under Law alongside the Called believers but they will eventually be led to Grace through Faith in Christ.

Mat 25:3-5 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

While the Called Virgins and the Called & Chosen Virgins wait for the Bridegroom to “appear” a second time (the first time was when the betrothal was made/first baptism), they all slumber & sleep and do not keep watch. The symbol “slumbered and slept” represents the time when we are spiritually blind and are spiritually dead. At this time, the Wise Virgins are no different from the Foolish Virgins. They too are in a worsened carnal state and still carry the Lamp of the Old Covenant.

However, verse 4 lets us know that the Wise Virgins are the Chosen saints because they carry an extra flask of Oil.

Mat 25:6-9 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

At midnight, the deepest part of our spiritual darkness, the call goes out to announce the Bridegroom’s approach. This is the same call that was made by John the Baptist to the Nation of Israel and later by the Apostle John to the carnal church. It is a call to repent from the Works of the Law so as to prepare the way for us to receive Christ and the New Covenant.

When both the Wise Virgins and the Foolish Virgins hear the “voice of one crying in the wilderness” (Luke 3:4), it tells them the Bridegroom is coming. They all awake from their slumber and trim their Lamps. As they do so, the Lamps begin to go out. This event represents the Called believer’s response to the cry to repent and the passing away of the Old Covenant of Law. In other words, they cannot respond to the call.

John the Baptist made this cry to the Nation of Israel first.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.

At this time, the people of Israel were the only ones who were offered salvation in Christ. The Day of Pentecost was strictly a Jewish event.

After the Day of Pentecost, salvation was offered to the Gentiles through the Apostles. They baptized the newly Called with water and after they too fell away from Grace through Faith, the cry to repent was made by the Apostle John.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Please note - not all Called believers respond to the voice telling them to repent. Most of the Jews in Christ’s Day did not respond and neither do most of the Called believers in the carnal Church. Also, the pathway that leads to Christ is the same for both Jews and Gentiles. We all must pass through the Old Covenant & respond to the cry to repent in order to reach the New Covenant.

Once all the Virgins have arisen and trimmed their Lamps, the Foolish Virgins discover that they do not have enough Oil. Because the Wise Virgins will not share any of their extra Oil, they are forced to “turn back” (fall away) from whence they came to buy from those who sell Oil – the Old Oil. This time of turning back is symbolized by Lot’s wife who turned back.

Luke 17:31-32 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife.

It is also shown to us in Luke 17:31-32 when some of the Christ’s disciples turned away from following Him after responding to the cry of John the Baptist.

John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

The Five Foolish Virgins cannot continue on to meet the Bridegroom because they did not receive a second filling of Oil for their Lamps. This New Oil symbolizes the second anointing of the Latter Rain of the Holy Spirit which would have empowered them to change from walking by the Law to walking by Grace through Faith. The Foolish Virgins were Called to the marriage and even responded to the cry to repent but since they were not given the New Oil of the New Covenant, they could not continue on to meet the bridegroom. They were not Chosen so they remained carnal & spiritually blind.

As for the Five Wise Virgins, they do have New Oil for their Lamps. Thus, they heed the call of repentance from the Works of the Law and continue on by Grace through Faith to meet the Bridegroom. As they journey, the Truth of the New Covenant lights their way.

Mat 25:10-12 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

While the Foolish Virgins returned to purchase more Old Oil, they missed the arrival of the Bridegroom. Because they were not able to continue on to meet the Bridegroom, they remain spiritually blind and under the Law the rest of their natural lives. “Afterward”, they are resurrected to condemnation and find the doors to the wedding are closed. In that day, Christ will say to them “I know you not”.

Mat 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Foolish Virgins will find that their portion is with the unbelievers:

Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

The Foolish Virgins will not be blessed to be in Christ’s harvest of First Fruits and will be resurrected to judgment with the unbelievers. They will receive their “portion” at the end of the final age when the great harvest of mankind occurs. They will not have “life” in the Kingdom of Heaven during the ages, but will only be given life at the end.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

When the Great Day of the Harvest (Feast of Tabernacles) finally arrives, Christ will deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to the Father.

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Christ’s reign will come to an end because He accomplished all that the Father gave Him to do, which was:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Joe

Bible Highlighter · Jan 17, 2021

FaithWillDo said:
Dear Bible Highlighter,
The Word of God is Christ and the written "word of God" is the way Christ physically expresses Himself to a carnal world. First comes the natural, then comes the spiritual. Eventually, Christ will express Himself spiritually (within us) to all mankind and give us the ability to spiritually understand His written word.

The carnal mind cannot understand the truth of scripture.

In John 3:16, it is written in spiritual language like all of God's word is. Here is the verse:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God's "love" is not like man's love. His love for us "never fails". Man's love does and that is how the carnal mind sees God's love. The carnal mind thinks God is going to torment most of mankind in literal fire. What kind of love is that? It is man's love which "fails" and frequently harms the object of their love.

Also, who is the "only begotten Son"? The carnal mind thinks He is a member of a trinity. But scripture teaches that he was created by the Father and that the Father is His God and the Father is in full authority over Christ. He is truly the Son of God. Someday, all mankind will also be said to be "sons" of God. Do you believe we will become part of the trinity someday?

Also, who has the ability to believe in Christ since the carnal mind hates God? Our belief in Christ is a gift to us from God and is given to us only when God decides to give us that gift. Scripture teaches that we do not have a free will ability to make that decision of belief. No one seeks after God.

Also, what does it mean to perish? The carnal mind says it is to be in "hell" for eternity separated from God. But scripture says that to "perish" means to be forever dead with no consciousness. Death is the penalty of sin, not "hell" that the carnal mind has created.

Also, what is everlasting life? The carnal mind thinks it is getting to go to a place called heaven which will have streets of gold, a mansion to live in and all the food we want. But scripture says everlasting life is to have a life free from sin, a relationship with the Father through Christ and to be fully made in His image. That is why scripture says that once we are "born again" we dwell with Christ in heaven. Heaven is not a location, it is a spiritual state of being that is acceptable to God. When Christ accomplishes His work within us, we will be one of God's children.

The carnal mind of man really doesn't understand the meaning of John 3:16.

Why do you think God made scripture so difficult to understand? Especially since you believe a person must make a wise free will decision to accept Christ in order to be saved? Wouldn't God make scripture very easy to understand if our salvation depended on us understanding it? Surely He would not teach us in "another tongue" - a spiritual language full of symbols, parables and types? Why does God teach us in a "mystery" since our very lives depend on understanding His Word?

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Why would God say:

Matt 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Ecc 3:11 He (God) has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put OBSCURITY in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

From your point of view, it makes no sense for God to conceal His truth from us if God really loves us and wants us to make a free will decision to accept Christ.

Do you think there might be a chance that you do not understand God's word and the pathway of salvation?

Christ says this is why a carnally minded believer cannot understand His words:

Mark 8:15-21 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, HOW IS IT THAT YE DO NOT UNDERSTAND?

In these verses, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on spiritual language - His language. At this point in time (before Pentecost), the disciples have not received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and were spiritually blind. They simply could not understand what Christ was teaching them. After Christ’s short lesson, He ends it by asking them this question: “How is it that ye do not understand”? No response is recorded in scripture, however, Christ answers His own question in the very next 4 verses.

Mark 8:22-25 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Christ speaks to us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, He goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer through the type and shadow of His healing of a blind man.

In these verses, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes that the blind man remains carnally minded. The “spit” (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (eyes, understanding). After Christ asks him what he could see, the blind man looks up and says that he could see men walking as trees. "Walking as trees" is a symbol for Called Out believers of which the blind man is now one. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted. This “first healing” of the blind man reflects our spiritual condition when we first enter the Church. At that time, we are left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. Peter says this condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 4:19 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

In the final verse of the story, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again but this time, Christ has the man “look up”. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit (second coming of Christ) when true spiritual vision is given to the believer. The man’s upward gaze represents this heavenly aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down. From that moment onward, we know that the blind man is a Called and Chosen believer. We can now know that the blind man is one of Christ’s Elect, a First Fruit of the harvest of mankind.

Mankind has no free will ability to save themselves. We are totally dependent on Christ coming to us and changing us from within WITHOUT us asking Him to do it. Once He changes us, we willingly accept Him and are lead by Him down the pathway that leads to life. He will accomplish this for all mankind. The First Fruits of His harvest are saved now in this age. All others will be saved in the final age - the age when you believe most of mankind will be burning in fire.
Joe

I have talked on various different Christian forums a long time (10 years approximately), and I have never run into anyone who has misinterpreted Scripture in such an extremely incorrect way before. So I think it is best we move on. For I cannot convince you of the truth of what God's Word plainly says because your starting point will not allow you to see your own error, friend. Only God can show you the truth.

I say what I do in love, and with the hope that you may see one day.
Well, all things will be revealed. So you will see the truth of God's Word by the Lord Himself.
I just pray it will be here on this Earth.

Anyways, may God's love shine upon you even if we disagree strongly on how to interpret God's Word.

FaithWillDo · Jan 18, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I have talked on various different Christian forums a long time (10 years approximately), and I have never run into anyone who has misinterpreted Scripture in such an extremely incorrect way before. So I think it is best we move on. For I cannot convince you of the truth of what God's Word plainly says because your starting point will not allow you to see your own error, friend. Only God can show you the truth.

I say what I do in love, and with the hope that you may see one day.
Well, all things will be revealed. So you will see the truth of God's Word by the Lord Himself.
I just pray it will be here on this Earth.

Anyways, may God's love shine upon you even if we disagree strongly on how to interpret God's Word.

Dear Bible Highlighter,
I completely understand. I have also been on numerous forums for at least 10 years and have not met anyone who can understand scripture as I do.

My wife and I received the Latter Rain of the Spirit back in 2005 and it turned our lives upside down. Spiritually speaking, we heard the last trumpet and there were great earthquakes, lightening, thunder and the sun was darkened and the moon became blood. We quickly lost all our Christians friends and I eventually lost my job because I just couldn't fit into the group of executives any longer. Even our relationship with our family became strained and more distance.

It was as Christ said:

Luke 18:18-25 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

The ruler told Christ that He followed the Law from his youth up but Christ told him he lacked one thing to inherit life during the ages. Christ told him to sell all that he owned and give it to the poor. Christ's message to him was the same message that He gave to my wife and I. We distributed all that we owned to the poor and picked up our cross and begin following Him. To understand this, one must remember that Christ is speaking of spiritual things that we owned and held in high value. What we gave up was our false beliefs and ideas of what we believed to be "truth". We left it all with the spiritually poor (those who still valued it in the church) and begin our trip through the narrow gate on the straight path. It has been a lonely trip but the Lord is always there with us, giving us His love and blessings of great treasure. Since that time, we have never looked back, not even for a second.

As a true Christian, "truth" is our treasure and for us, it is of great worth.

Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Copied in below is mine and my wife's testimony from that time when we received the Latter Rain. It seems so long ago now, in a different life-time even. Though the change within us has made it difficult to live in this world, we wouldn't change a thing. We consider ourselves some of the most blessed people who have ever lived. It has been worth it all to find Christ and the knowledge of God.

October 8th, 2005

Conversion Testimony of Joseph & Julie Edwards

Two years ago, my wife Julie and I had been without a church home for 4 years after having moved to Fayetteville, AR. We visited many churches during that time (some for 3 or 4 months) but we never could find any that seemed to have a real love for the Lord. After our own personal study of the scripture, we decided that we wanted to be baptized in the Name of Jesus instead of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit as we had done many years ago. We could not find any churches that would baptize this way until we talked to a friend (Rusty Newman) who went to an Oneness Pentecostal church in Bentonville, AR. We decided to go and be baptized there even though we were from a Church of Christ/Baptist type background. We studied in the scripture about receiving the Holy Spirit and the gifts which the Spirit gives.

Four weeks later, my wife was filled with the Spirit at home and started speaking in tongues. It was a very powerful experience with her. She was constantly filled for about two weeks, speaking in tongues nearly every time she opened her mouth. She spent a great deal of time on her knees in tears speaking in tongues as she prayed. We didn't really know what to think of it. Like I said, we were from a church background that denies tongues. We were not kids either, I was 43 and she was 37. We really were amazed with her experience. A few weeks went by and she would still go on her knees in prayer every day and the Spirit would speak through her in tongues until one day as she spoke, the words changed into English. We soon realized that she was prophesying in the Spirit. We had never even heard of this gift before and were greatly amazed by it. Over the next year & a half, she has received "words" (that is what we call them) from the Lord more than two dozen times. One of the words she received told us (me & her) that the Lord had great treasure for us if we would continue seeking him.

I will quote it to you:

"I am. I know your heart. Seek Me and I will be found. Look deep into My Word. The truth is not to be given by man but only revealed by Me. It is for those whose hearts desire it above the treasures of this world. You must give up all and treasure you will receive. I am the truth and the only way. I am the Lord."

Julie received this "word" in July 2004. I know what you are thinking - I wouldn't have believed it is real either if someone were to tell me about it happening to someone else. I was not sure whether to believe it or not for a long time. But after a few months, I did come to believe it was really from the Lord because the things she prayed over and received "words" concerning, would come to pass just as she prophesied.

Then four weeks ago, my journey to the Lord took a sudden and giant step! I saw a picture on foxnews.com of a young Muslim boy (age 12) who had just lived through the recent Pakistan earthquake. For some reason, my heart for this boy was really going out to him. I have rarely ever felt this way before by a news story. That evening in prayer at home, the image of the boy came back to me and I grieved for him as I prayed. I was not grieving for him because of the earthquake but because I thought that he was going to be eternally lost and that he really doesn't have a realistic chance of being saved. I couldn't understand why I had been blessed with the opportunity to know the Lord and why he has virtually no opportunity since he lives in a Muslim country. I asked the Lord why this was the case. I was so confused and couldn't understand why he was most likely going to hell just because of where he had been born. Almost three days had passed since I had prayed that prayer and I had not given it much more thought. But on that third day (Friday, Oct. 7, 2005) I had some extra time at work so I decided to study "end-time" prophecy on the internet (my great passion). I went to Google and searched on a couple of words (I can't remember them now) and a list of websites came up. I looked through the list and noticed Ray Smith's website “bible-truths.com”. I thought it looked interesting so I clicked on it. By the next morning, I had read his Lake of Fire Series for a few hours and was now on part four. I couldn't believe what I was reading but I felt compelled to continue reading it anyway. Later that same morning (Saturday, Oct. 8, 2005), I took a break from my reading to pray about it. I prayed for the Lord to open my eyes if what Ray Smith had written was true and went back to reading. I was still on the fourth part when the Lord suddenly opened my eyes. I became overjoyed at the truth the Lord had just revealed to me! It was joy like I had never felt before in my life. It was at that point that I remembered my prayer from earlier in the week concerning the Muslim boy. Immediately, I knew that this new truth which the Lord had just shown me was the answer to that prayer. I was overjoyed again. I then decided to find Julie (she was in the kitchen) and share with her what the Lord had just revealed to me. I explained to her what I had been reading and pointed out the supporting scriptures. Within 30 minutes, she was filled with the Spirit and began praising the Lord because of the new knowledge of the truth that He had revealed to her, too.

The last 4 weeks Julie and I have studied scripture every day and have been trying to share the new truths with our friends at church. But cutting through the details, we ended up leaving the church for good a few days ago. No one there could receive the truth that the Lord had revealed to us. In just four short weeks, we had learned so much from our studies that nearly everything we knew before as “truth”, we now knew to be lies. I could hardly believe how spiritually blind we were just a few short weeks before. Now from scripture, we have come to understand what had just happened in both our lives - the Lord had appeared unto us a second time, given us the Latter Rain of the Spirit and healed our spiritual vision. We found the "treasure" mentioned in Julie’s prophesy from about a year & a half ago. We didn't even remember her receiving that "word" until I stumbled across it a few days ago from an old email I had sent to a family member. When I reminded her of it and read it to her, she was filled with tears of joy again.

The next day, Julie received another "word" from the Lord. It said:

"I will answer. I have shown you the truth in My Word. It is only revealed to those who seek it. It is by faith. It is for those who seek to know Me. I will bring all before My judgment, which is righteous and true. I will complete all things as I have committed to do by My Word. The things of the Spirit cannot be understood by man, even if I reveal it. It will be as I have spoken it. Some will hear and not believe. Some will hear and search but will desire the favor of men more than Me. Some will hear and seek understanding, and by faith I will show them. These will be few. These few will rejoice as one who has found great treasure! Keep seeking, remain faithful and I will give abundant blessings. You ask of Yahweh. I Am that I Am, come to men to show them the Light. Of the One, from and in the One when all things are completed as it was established before time. All will be brought to life in the One. It will not then be needful to show man God or give man His Spirit. Man cannot receive more because he cannot understand".

Several weeks after receiving the Latter Rain of the Spirit, Julie ceased receiving “words” from the Lord. She has not received any since that time. I believe it is because of what this verse teaches:

1Cor 13:8-10 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

May the Lord bless and keep you,

Joe Edwards

Bible Highlighter · Jan 18, 2021

FaithWillDo said:
Dear Bible Highlighter,
I completely understand. I have also been on numerous forums for at least 10 years and have not met anyone who can understand scripture as I do.

My wife and I received the Latter Rain of the Spirit back in 2005 and it turned our lives upside down. Spiritually speaking, we heard the last trumpet and there were great earthquakes, lightening, thunder and the sun was darkened and the moon became blood. We quickly lost all our Christians friends and I eventually lost my job because I just couldn't fit into the group of executives any longer. Even our relationship with our family became strained and more distance.

It was as Christ said:

Luke 18:18-25 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

The ruler told Christ that He followed the Law from his youth up but Christ told him he lacked one thing to inherit life during the ages. Christ told him to sell all that he owned and give it to the poor. Christ's message to him was the same message that He gave to my wife and I. We distributed all that we owned to the poor and picked up our cross and begin following Him. To understand this, one must remember that Christ is speaking of spiritual things that we owned and held in high value. What we gave up was our false beliefs and ideas of what we believed to be "truth". We left it all with the spiritually poor (those who still valued it in the church) and begin our trip through the narrow gate on the straight path. It has been a lonely trip but the Lord is always there with us, giving us His love and blessings of great treasure. Since that time, we have never looked back, not even for a second.

As a true Christian, "truth" is our treasure and for us, it is of great worth.

Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Copied in below is mine and my wife's testimony from that time when we received the Latter Rain. It seems so long ago now, in a different life-time even. Though the change within us has made it difficult to live in this world, we wouldn't change a thing. We consider ourselves some of the most blessed people who have ever lived. It has been worth it all to find Christ and the knowledge of God.

October 8th, 2005

Conversion Testimony of Joseph & Julie Edwards

Two years ago, my wife Julie and I had been without a church home for 4 years after having moved to Fayetteville, AR. We visited many churches during that time (some for 3 or 4 months) but we never could find any that seemed to have a real love for the Lord. After our own personal study of the scripture, we decided that we wanted to be baptized in the Name of Jesus instead of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit as we had done many years ago. We could not find any churches that would baptize this way until we talked to a friend (Rusty Newman) who went to an Oneness Pentecostal church in Bentonville, AR. We decided to go and be baptized there even though we were from a Church of Christ/Baptist type background. We studied in the scripture about receiving the Holy Spirit and the gifts which the Spirit gives.

Four weeks later, my wife was filled with the Spirit at home and started speaking in tongues. It was a very powerful experience with her. She was constantly filled for about two weeks, speaking in tongues nearly every time she opened her mouth. She spent a great deal of time on her knees in tears speaking in tongues as she prayed. We didn't really know what to think of it. Like I said, we were from a church background that denies tongues. We were not kids either, I was 43 and she was 37. We really were amazed with her experience. A few weeks went by and she would still go on her knees in prayer every day and the Spirit would speak through her in tongues until one day as she spoke, the words changed into English. We soon realized that she was prophesying in the Spirit. We had never even heard of this gift before and were greatly amazed by it. Over the next year & a half, she has received "words" (that is what we call them) from the Lord more than two dozen times. One of the words she received told us (me & her) that the Lord had great treasure for us if we would continue seeking him.

I will quote it to you:

"I am. I know your heart. Seek Me and I will be found. Look deep into My Word. The truth is not to be given by man but only revealed by Me. It is for those whose hearts desire it above the treasures of this world. You must give up all and treasure you will receive. I am the truth and the only way. I am the Lord."

Julie received this "word" in July 2004. I know what you are thinking - I wouldn't have believed it is real either if someone were to tell me about it happening to someone else. I was not sure whether to believe it or not for a long time. But after a few months, I did come to believe it was really from the Lord because the things she prayed over and received "words" concerning, would come to pass just as she prophesied.

Then four weeks ago, my journey to the Lord took a sudden and giant step! I saw a picture on foxnews.com of a young Muslim boy (age 12) who had just lived through the recent Pakistan earthquake. For some reason, my heart for this boy was really going out to him. I have rarely ever felt this way before by a news story. That evening in prayer at home, the image of the boy came back to me and I grieved for him as I prayed. I was not grieving for him because of the earthquake but because I thought that he was going to be eternally lost and that he really doesn't have a realistic chance of being saved. I couldn't understand why I had been blessed with the opportunity to know the Lord and why he has virtually no opportunity since he lives in a Muslim country. I asked the Lord why this was the case. I was so confused and couldn't understand why he was most likely going to hell just because of where he had been born. Almost three days had passed since I had prayed that prayer and I had not given it much more thought. But on that third day (Friday, Oct. 7, 2005) I had some extra time at work so I decided to study "end-time" prophecy on the internet (my great passion). I went to Google and searched on a couple of words (I can't remember them now) and a list of websites came up. I looked through the list and noticed Ray Smith's website “bible-truths.com”. I thought it looked interesting so I clicked on it. By the next morning, I had read his Lake of Fire Series for a few hours and was now on part four. I couldn't believe what I was reading but I felt compelled to continue reading it anyway. Later that same morning (Saturday, Oct. 8, 2005), I took a break from my reading to pray about it. I prayed for the Lord to open my eyes if what Ray Smith had written was true and went back to reading. I was still on the fourth part when the Lord suddenly opened my eyes. I became overjoyed at the truth the Lord had just revealed to me! It was joy like I had never felt before in my life. It was at that point that I remembered my prayer from earlier in the week concerning the Muslim boy. Immediately, I knew that this new truth which the Lord had just shown me was the answer to that prayer. I was overjoyed again. I then decided to find Julie (she was in the kitchen) and share with her what the Lord had just revealed to me. I explained to her what I had been reading and pointed out the supporting scriptures. Within 30 minutes, she was filled with the Spirit and began praising the Lord because of the new knowledge of the truth that He had revealed to her, too.

The last 4 weeks Julie and I have studied scripture every day and have been trying to share the new truths with our friends at church. But cutting through the details, we ended up leaving the church for good a few days ago. No one there could receive the truth that the Lord had revealed to us. In just four short weeks, we had learned so much from our studies that nearly everything we knew before as “truth”, we now knew to be lies. I could hardly believe how spiritually blind we were just a few short weeks before. Now from scripture, we have come to understand what had just happened in both our lives - the Lord had appeared unto us a second time, given us the Latter Rain of the Spirit and healed our spiritual vision. We found the "treasure" mentioned in Julie’s prophesy from about a year & a half ago. We didn't even remember her receiving that "word" until I stumbled across it a few days ago from an old email I had sent to a family member. When I reminded her of it and read it to her, she was filled with tears of joy again.

The next day, Julie received another "word" from the Lord. It said:

"I will answer. I have shown you the truth in My Word. It is only revealed to those who seek it. It is by faith. It is for those who seek to know Me. I will bring all before My judgment, which is righteous and true. I will complete all things as I have committed to do by My Word. The things of the Spirit cannot be understood by man, even if I reveal it. It will be as I have spoken it. Some will hear and not believe. Some will hear and search but will desire the favor of men more than Me. Some will hear and seek understanding, and by faith I will show them. These will be few. These few will rejoice as one who has found great treasure! Keep seeking, remain faithful and I will give abundant blessings. You ask of Yahweh. I Am that I Am, come to men to show them the Light. Of the One, from and in the One when all things are completed as it was established before time. All will be brought to life in the One. It will not then be needful to show man God or give man His Spirit. Man cannot receive more because he cannot understand".

Several weeks after receiving the Latter Rain of the Spirit, Julie ceased receiving “words” from the Lord. She has not received any since that time. I believe it is because of what this verse teaches:

1Cor 13:8-10 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

May the Lord bless and keep you,

Joe Edwards

Sorry, I am not interested in your testimony because the testimony of Scripture trumps any human experience. Mormons and JWs can make claims to special experiences that supposedly backs up their claims, but we know that their beliefs are simply false based on the light of Scripture. Your interpretation of Scripture is not consisent with what you say involving your own words. You say you cannot read Scripture literally but yet you do so at certain times when it is convenient for you to want to teach something. Again, I am not interested in what you have to say anymore. Your belief is contradictory, and it cannot be substantiated with Scripture and or basic reasoning (that God has given to us).

aiki · Jan 18, 2021

FaithWillDo said:
Dear Aiki,

Here is what Christ said:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Christ directly says His words are "spirit". Since Christ is the Word of God, everything He taught used words that are spirit.

If I say, "Bill is a pig," or "Work was a nightmare today," do I mean Bill is literally a pig and that work was literally a scary and unpleasant dream? Obviously not. The form of speech being used in these phrases is that of the metaphor. English employs analogies and similes, too. These are all figurative parts of language and we know this because we can compare the description to reality and see that Bill, a human being, is not, in fact, actually a pig, nor was the conscious, daytime labor of work actually, literally a scary dream endured while sleeping.

In the same way, when I read John 6:63 I can compare what I know of the nature of words to Christ's statement about his own words and recognize immediately that he is using metaphor, figurative language, in his remarks. "Spirit" is an intangible, immaterial thing, inaccessible to our physical senses. Is this true of words? No. One can hear and see words. In fact, I once ate a word made of chocolate! So, clearly, words are not literally "spirit" - not even those Jesus spoke in John 6:63 which his disciples heard and you and I read in our Bibles today.

Speaking metaphorically, Jesus meant that his words communicated spiritual truth and eternal life. Words are mere referents, pointing to some particular thing (an idea, or object, or experience, etc.). Jesus's words point to spiritual truth, truth that reveals the means to eternal life.

Jesus could have said, "The words I speak unto you are spirit-words..." He could have spoken in this way and made it clear he was speaking, not merely of the content of his words, but of the nature of his words themselves. But he didn't. Instead, his speech in John 6:63 clearly conforms to that of metaphor.

Peter understood this metaphorical nature of Christ's words and responded:

John 6:68
68 ..."Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

Here, Peter distinguishes Christ's words from their content by the use of the word "of." He doesn't say, "Your words are eternal life," but by using the preposition "of" merely acknowledges a relationship between Christ's words and life (and spirit). And Christ does not correct Peter, explaining to him that his words aren't just related as linguistic referents to spirit and life, but are spirit and life themselves. Why would Jesus make such a correction anyway, since it was clear that he was speaking metaphorically?

Thus, John 6:63 fails to secure your "spirit words" belief.

FaithWillDo said:
Here is what Paul said about these spirit words:

1Cor 2:11-14 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

None of these passages mention "spirit words" or "spirit language." You have to force such ideas into these portions of Scripture rather than extract them. This very dangerous eisegetical approach to God's word will quickly lead you badly awry.

FaithWillDo said:
These spirit words have meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches. Then Paul go on to say that the Holy Spirit teaches us how to understand them - we must compare spiritual words with how those same spirit words are used elsewhere in scripture. The "natural" man who is carnally minded cannot understand God's word.

Yes, spiritual truth requires a spiritual understanding which is imparted to the Christian from the Holy Spirit - not from "spirit words."

There is a serious problem with your thinking here: If the spiritual words in one place in Scripture don't mean what they say, how does comparing them to other spiritual words, which, being spiritual words, don't mean what they say, either - help? You've set up a circumstance where you are comparing words with hidden meaning to each other! How do you get meaning from such a system? Yikes! It appears to me you just arbitrarily decide when a word in Scripture has it's natural, standard meaning and when it doesn't which makes you the Final Arbiter of the meaning of God's word! Double yikes!!

FaithWillDo said:
Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Christ speaks to us through scripture. The above verse is how He speaks to not only the Jews but to everyone who reads scripture. He speaks with "another tongue" and that tongue is the spiritual language of Christ.

This passage in Isaiah 28 was about drunken priests in Israel (Isaiah 28:7-8) and had nothing to do with modern-day Christians. The "precept upon precept, line upon line" stuff in verse 10 is meant to mimic the stammering lips of the speaker in verse 11. Verse 10, spoken in Hebrew, sounds this way:

"...tzav latzav, tzav latzav, gav laqav, gav laquav..."

This passage in Isaiah, then, has nothing at all to do with Christians and how Scripture "speaks" to us today. Verse 12 is, in fact, about the punishment that would fall upon the drunken priests of verses 7 and 8.

Do you see how contorted your understanding of Scripture becomes as you follow your "spirit words" thinking? Wow.

FaithWillDo said:
He speaks to us in this manner so that no one but those whom He has Chosen can understand His meaning:

Matt 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you (the Elect) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (those not Chosen) it is not given.

I don't subscribe to a Calvinist perspective. It is rife with logical inconsistencies and bad exegesis. No thank you. See www.soteriology101.com

You see here how you've begun to adjust Scripture to fit your view, inserting your own words into it? This is always what happens when we set ourselves over God's word, using tangled thinking to justify our twisting of it.

Christ explained in Matthew 13 that he kept his teachings obscure in order to fulfill prophecy, not simply to keep spiritual truth from the non-elect. (vs. 13-15) Eventually, after Christ had died and rose again, the truths of Christ's teachings were set in their proper, fulfilled context, and preached to all plainly and powerfully; for the preaching of the Gospel itself was the "power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes" (Romans 1:16), evidenced in the events of Acts 2.

FaithWillDo said:
As a chosen believer travels the pathway that leads to salvation, when does Christ heal their spiritual blindness so that they can understand His truth? It happens at the Latter Rain of the Spirit.

The only place where the phrase "latter rain" appears in the NT is in James where he writes of the future coming of Christ and the need for a patient waiting for it:

James 5:7-9
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waits for the precious fruit of the earth, and has long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be you also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draws nigh.
9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest you be condemned: behold, the judge stands before the door.

There is nothing about the Spirit in this passage and the way in which believers come to understand spiritual truth.

And so it goes. In the rest of your last post to me, as in all of the others, there is a constant wrenching of God's word so that it fits - often in very bizarre fashion - into your ideas about "spirit words/language." Oh, some bits and pieces of what you say are true, but that truth is then contorted to shape to your bad doctrine and eisegesis. Again, this makes me think of the early part of Matthew 4 and the twisting of Scripture that went on there, too...

I'll warn you one last time: The judgment of God falls rapidly and sharply on those who do as you are doing with His word.

2 Peter 2:1
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies...bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

FaithWillDo · Jan 21, 2021

Dear Aiki,

Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The above verse is critical to understanding how Christ gives us understanding of His "spirit" words. "Context" is of little value since truth is taught in bits and pieces that have to be assembled into the truth of God:

Psa 119:160 The sum of Your word is truth, And all of Your righteous ordinances are eonian."

These above verses are referring to when Christ came in the flesh and spoke directly to the Jewish Nation. His words are spirit which is the "stammering lips and another tongue" mentioned in the verses. Everything that Christ taught in the Gospels is in this "another tongue" language:

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Because Christ ONLY taught in this language, they could not understand Him. Only those whom Christ gives "ears that can hear and eyes that can see" can understand. These spiritual "ears and eyes" represent our ability to understand Christ's "spirit" words and this can only be achieved when Christ gives us the Latter Rain of the Holy Spirit. Without the Spirit, no one will understand. In this age, Christ's messages are only for His chosen Elect. All others will "fall backward and be broken" and will remain so until their physical deaths.

Paul confirmed Christ's way of teaching when He said:

1Cor 2:7-14 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. WHICH THINGS ALSO WE SPEAK, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Paul says a lot in these few verses. He even says that if Christ had not spoken in this manner, they would not have crucified Him. But Christ came to be crucified so He spoke in a manner that cannot be understood by anyone UNLESS they have the Holy Spirit. And at this time, no one had the Holy Spirit. Even the apostles could not understand Christ's teachings. Paul goes on to say that He speaks in the same manner as Christ using the same "spirit" words. The effect is the same - no one can understand UNLESS they have been given the Holy Spirit. The true meaning of scripture is written in a "mystery" and in words (spirit words) that are different than what man's wisdom teaches. Paul goes on to say that the Holy Spirit guides us in our understanding when we compare the spiritual words with where they are used elsewhere in scripture. He finally ends by saying that the "natural man" cannot receive understanding BECAUSE the words require spiritual discernment.

If this isn't clear enough for you, then you are simply refusing to acknowledge what scripture says.

As for the verse from James you mentioned, it is full of "spirit" words and it's meaning is likewise a "mystery" to all but those who have been given "eyes that can see".

To properly understand what James says in James 5:7-8, we must also understand what Daniel said about the Seventy Weeks prophecy.

Dan 9:24-27 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

At the start of the 70th week (483 years), Christ, now being 30 years of age, “confirmed the covenant” He made with Abraham.

Gen 15:5-6 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

This confirmation took place when Christ was baptized by John the Baptist.

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli…

Matt 3:13-15 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

At that time, the final 7 year “week” commenced which would bring an end to sin, make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in everlasting righteousness. To complete this mission, Christ willingly went to the cross at the 3 ½ year mark (He was “cutoff”) of the last 7 years remaining in the prophecy. His sacrifice purchased mankind’s sin debt and provided the pathway of salvation for mankind. As a result of Christ’s death and resurrection, the Old Covenant of Law ended and the New Covenant of Grace through Faith began. This change is shown to us by verse 27:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Christ’s death on the cross caused the “sacrifice and the oblation to cease”. No longer could mankind approach God through the Old Covenant of Law. Now the only approach to God is through the New Covenant of Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ who dwells in His new temple not made with hands.

This new temple is mankind and is no longer a physical temple in Jerusalem.

Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

1Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

However, mankind, who being carnally minded, prefers the Old Covenant of Law over the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Our carnal nature has a built in desire to show God that our “works” can make us acceptable to Him. So when a Called Out believer attempts to combine their own “works” with Grace through Faith, they “fall away”. This “falling away” is also combined with the deceptions of Satan who masquerades as Christ. When Satan’s deceptions run their full course within a Called Out believer, a worsened carnal state is developed.

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The “seven other spirits” is a spiritual term that represents the complete deception of Satan. It is the spirit of antichrist.

This worsened carnal state is called the “Man of Sin” by Paul:

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Once this worsened carnal state occurs within a Called Out believer, it causes the “overspreading of abominations” which makes the Lord’s temple (themselves) desolate. This is the “sin that leads to death”.

1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

This abomination of desolation is what Christ refers to in this verse below:

Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is a spiritual covenant and it cleanses the inside of mankind. It is not bound by literal time. The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is represented by the remaining 3 ½ years of Daniel's Seventy weeks of years which will put an end to sin. This 3 ½ years consists of two ages of time - the Church age and the Lake of Fire age (my terms). This 3 ½ years is also presented in scripture as Time, Times and half a time, 1260 days, 42 months and finally 3 ½ days.

The remaining 3 ½ years period is a spiritual term with its own meaning. It is not literal. It represents the time period within each person when they are first Called Out from the world (Early Rain) and lasts up until the time they receive the Latter Rain. Only Christ's chosen Elect will receive both the Early and Latter Rain in this present age. All others must wait until the final age.

Here is the scripture in James and how it relates to Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy:

Jam 5:7-8 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James says a lot in these two verses and its meaning is hidden in spiritual language.

Christ is the Husbandman who is a farmer. The Precious Fruit of the Earth is the New Man in Christ who is to be harvested from the Earth. The Earth represents the carnal & sinful world. The farmer “hath long patience for it” because birthing many new Sons of God is a long process and is now just getting started with the harvest of the First-Fruits in this present age.

Christ even said:

Luke 12:49 I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

“Fire” is a spiritual term for the judgment of God. Without His judgment, no one would be saved. In the above verse, Christ longs to start that process of judgment upon mankind (The Elect first, then all others) but the time was not yet at hand. Since before the creation began, Christ has been waiting patiently for that day - the Day of the Lord. It is no wonder that “patience” is one of the fruits of the Spirit.

At the end of verse 7, James says that the growing season for Christ’s harvest of mankind starts with the Early Rain. It is at this point in time that a new believer will enter the Church. The Early Rain represents the receiving of the down-payment of the Holy Spirit. However, the Early Rain of the Spirit is not sufficient for us to grow to maturity and produce fruit. It leaves the new believer carnally minded and spiritually blind. It is at this time that Satan comes to us and causes us to accept His lies. We quickly fall away and spiritually worsen into a “Man of Sin”. This is the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel and Christ.

During this time between the Early and Latter Rain, the fallen away believer desperately needs the Latter Rain of the Spirit. However, the Latter Rain will not fall upon a believer until the "3 ½ years" is complete "within" them.

Later in James, he had this to say about the "3 1/2 years":

James 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

Note: The Early Rain falls upon the “sea” where unbelievers dwell. The Latter Rain falls upon the “earth” where the Called Out believers dwell.

Once the Latter Rain falls upon a Called and Chosen believer, they are “born again” and the last 3 ½ years of Daniel’s prophecy is testified to be true within that believer.

The completion of this "3 ½ years" started on the Day of Pentecost when those in the upper room received the Latter Rain of the Spirit. And it's completion has been happening over and over again down through this age to all of Christ’s chosen Elect when they too receive the Latter Rain. But they are ONLY the First Fruits of Christ’s harvest of mankind. After this age ends, all who remain lost will go through the same process in the final age. When the last person is saved, then the "3 ½ years" of Daniel's Seventy Weeks of years will be completed and these statements will be testified to be true:

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Can you still not "see" the truth of what I have written above?

Joe

FaithWillDo · Jan 23, 2021

I am still looking for persons on the Forum who believe they have received the Early and Latter of the Spirit but do not think they have a full understanding of the Truth yet. I would be happy to share with you what the Lord has given me.
Joe

CARNAL UNDERSTANDING VS. SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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