How does one lose a free gift?

redleghunter

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Whatever it signifies, unless you drink it, you have no life in you.

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Now, let's see what Strong's says about 'drink'.

figuratively, to receive into the soul what serves to refresh strengthen, nourish it unto life eternal

Everyone with half a brain, knows we are not to drink His physical blood. Do you agree?

Strong's says it is what is received into the soul. No one receives physical blood into his soul, if he should drink it. Strong's also says it nourishes the soul unto eternal life.

First, I would like to present the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4.

7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, give me to drink.
8 (for his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)
9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, how is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, if thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
11 The woman saith unto him, sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.


Here, Jesus wasn't talking about physical drinking. Many today, like the woman, have their minds only on physical things. Jesus was speaking of spiritual drinking, that is, living water. This water springs up into everlasting life. Notice, those who drink the living water, and those who drink His blood have life.

Like the water, Jesus is not speaking of 'physical' blood in John 6:53, nor at the last supper. As Strong's says, to drink spiritually is to receive into the soul that which serves to nourishes unto eternal life.

What do you think nourishes unto eternal life? All we have to do is look to Jesus and He will tell us.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 6:68
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Straight from the Savior's lips, He tells us the words He speaks are spirit and they are life. Then we have Peter agreeing with the Savior. What is important to note, is that every word He speaks is life. Every word He speaks it the Truth, as Jesus Himself says He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

From this, we know His blood and living waters denote the Truth. It is those who drink, that is, have knowledge of the Truth. Man's nourishment or sustenance then is not from natural food and drink, but from spiritual food and drink.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, it is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Notice it says 'every' word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Therefore, when Jesus says, if we wish to enter life, keep the commandments', you can stake your soul on the truth of this.
That was not an answer but this is:

Romans 5: NASB

9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
 
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EmSw

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That was not an answer but this is:

Romans 5: NASB

9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

But that doesn't answer the question about drinking His blood. If you don't drink His blood, it matters not what you read and believe. You have no life in you.

So, is being justified by His blood involve drinking it?
 
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redleghunter

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But that doesn't answer the question about drinking His blood. If you don't drink His blood, it matters not what you read and believe. You have no life in you.

So, is being justified by His blood involve drinking it?
Please address the posted verse.
 
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EmSw

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Please address the posted verse.

Let's see who God justifies.

Exodus 23:7
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Deuteronomy 25:1
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.

1 Kings 8:32
Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous, to give him according to his righteousness.

Will you say these verses are the truth? God does not justify the wicked, in fact, the wicked are condemned according to his ways (actions, works, life). God justifies the righteous according to his righteousness (righteous acts, truthfulness).

Now if you recall what blood denotes. We are justified by the truth which proceeds from Jesus.
 
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Danthemailman

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[Staff edit].

Jesus message was definitely about works. He never once said 'faith alone' or 'grace alone'...NEVER!
John 1:17 - For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. *What did Jesus say in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? Nothing there to support your gospel of works. *New flash - We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Romans 11:6 - But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. Jesus' message about a lack of works exposing a false servant does not mean that His message was about salvation by works.

Jesus' Gospel was not about His death, burial, and resurrection.
Jesus had predicted His death, burial and resurrection. Mark 8:31 - And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. Jesus stated that if his enemies destroyed the temple (of his body), he would build it again in three days (John 2:19; Mark 14:58; Matthew 26:61).

Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. 'Kingdom' is listed 55 times in Matthew alone. Why not have a look? To know His Gospel is to know about His Kingdom.
His kingdom is not about works righteousness and neither was His gospel. Why not have a deeper look?

Let me give just one example. Then tell us if His death, burial, and resurrection has anything to do with what Jesus preached.
Jesus predicted His death, burial and resurrection and His gospel was the "good news" about "the kingdom of heaven being at hand." (Matthew 4:17; Mark 1:14-15) The death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) had everything to do with what Paul preached and the gospel that Paul preached came to him through a revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12). :oldthumbsup:

Matthew 25
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Yet more passages of scripture that I often hear works-salvationists twist in order to support their false gospel of works salvation. The talents represent monetary value and are distibuted according to ability (Matthew 25:15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to invest in Christ and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and slothful and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true servant of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Those who produce no results at all are not truly converted. Faith without works is dead, remember?

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as a hard man, reaping where he did not sow and gathering where he scattered no seed. This wicked, slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. *Two of these servants represent children of God, but not the third. *Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved. *The Israelites were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved. *Isaiah 43:10 - "You are My witnesses," declares the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen..

Now we have the true message of the Gospel of the Kingdom.
What we have is your distortion of the true message of the gospel of the kingdom -- "works righteousness." The true message from the parable of the talents is that profitable servants are praised, given increased responsibilities and invited to enter into the joy of their Lord. Wicked, slothful stewards are scolded, rejected, and punished. The basis of the reward will be their stewardship of his resources entrusted to them. Those who fear and do not believe will be rejected and judged. In your vain attempt to promote works righteousness, you missed all the critical details.

It definitely flies in the face of 'faith alone'.
Not at all, yet John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 along with Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc.. definitely flies in the face of salvation by works. ;)

*Man is saved through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

*Here is the balance that works-salvationists have out of balance - Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* :)

Go ahead, read about the Kingdom Jesus preached. You will never read about any death, burial, and resurrection in any message He gave about the Kingdom.
Why do you continue to "downplay" the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ? As I already shared with you, Jesus predicted His death, burial and resurrection multiple times in His message. Also, the gospel that Paul preached and received through a revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12) was about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Are you implying that the gospel Jesus preached is in conflict with the gospel that Paul preached?

Jesus' Gospel is the Gospel I believe.
Jesus' gospel and your gospel are not the same. Works-salvationists believe a "different" gospel.

Once again you dodged my question: What do YOU believe the gospel IS that Paul preached and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)
 
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EmSw

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They were not sinless and need a Savior, just like the rest of us. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23).

I never said they were sinless. I said they were righteous before God. The were righteous by keeping all the commandments and ordinances of God blamelessly.

Of course they needed a Savior. Who was the Savior in the OT? Who was the Redeemer in the OT?
 
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Danthemailman

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I never said they were sinless. I said they were righteous before God. The were righteous by keeping all the commandments and ordinances of God blamelessly.

Of course they needed a Savior. Who was the Savior in the OT? Who was the Redeemer in the OT?
Why would they need a Savior if they were righteous "by" (you "added" the word "by" to the verse) "keeping all the commandments and ordinances of God blamelessly?" Are we accounted as righteous by works or by faith? Jesus is the Savior and Redeemer.

In Romans 4:2-6, we read 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. :oldthumbsup:

Nothing there about 'keeping all the commandments and ordinances of God' (works-righteousness) being accounted for righteousness. Faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

You need to stop cherry picking only the verses from the Bible that you want to hear, then building doctrine on them and ignoring the rest. You also need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.
 
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EmSw

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John 1:17 - For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. *What did Jesus say in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? Nothing there to support your gospel of works. *New flash - We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Romans 11:6 - But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. Jesus' message about a lack of works exposing a false servant does not mean that His message was about salvation by works.

Yes sir, grace came through Jesus. Now find and show us where Jesus said anyone is saved by grace through faith, not works. You have a deeper look.

Jesus had predicted His death, burial and resurrection. Mark 8:31 - And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. Jesus stated that if his enemies destroyed the temple (of his body), he would build it again in three days (John 2:19; Mark 14:58; Matthew 26:61).

That's not the Gospel Jesus preached. His Gospel was the Gospel of the Kingdom.

His kingdom is not about works righteousness and neither was His gospel. Why not have a deeper look?

Does YOUR righteousness exceed the Pharisees' and scribes' righteousness? If not, you will in no wise enter the Kingdom.

Jesus predicted His death, burial and resurrection and His gospel was the "good news" about "the kingdom of heaven being at hand." (Matthew 4:17; Mark 1:14-15) The death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) had everything to do with what Paul preached and the gospel that Paul preached came to him through a revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12). :oldthumbsup:

So, if anyone says they have a revelation of Jesus, will you believe them? What if someone told you they had a revelation of Jesus, and told you unless you drink His physical blood, you are condemned forever. Will you believe them? I bet you won't believe it because Jesus never said such a thing.

More later. In the meantime, keep looking for the words of Jesus in which He said one is saved by grace through faith, not works. Ciao.
 
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EmSw

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*Here is the balance that works-salvationists have out of balance - Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

So how does a man have genuine faith without works?

What is the evidence of genuine faith? Please tell everyone how a man has genuine faith without works.
 
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Danthemailman

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Yes sir, grace came through Jesus. Now find and show us where Jesus said anyone is saved by grace through faith, not works. You have a deeper look.
Jesus did not use the specific words, "saved by grace through faith, not works" in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, yet Paul wrote those specific words in Ephesians 2:8,9 and those words ARE inspired by God (as ALL scripture is inspired by God - 2 Timothy 3:16) and Jesus IS God (John 1:1,14). Are you trying to pit the Lord Jesus Christ against the apostle Paul? o_O

In John 3:18, Jesus said - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In Acts 10:43, the apostle Peter said - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

In Acts 16:31, the apostle Paul said - Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household. *If you still cannot see the pattern here then you need to have a deeper look.

That's not the Gospel Jesus preached. His Gospel was the Gospel of the Kingdom.
Which was the same "good news" that John the Baptist also preached (Matthew 3:2) and that "good news" was the "kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 4:17; 10:5; Mark 1:14,15).

Does YOUR righteousness exceed the Pharisees' and scribes' righteousness? If not, you will in no wise enter the Kingdom.
My faith is in Jesus Christ for salvation, so the answer is yes, yet it's not my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God through faith. (Philippians 3:9) :oldthumbsup:

It should be noted that the righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees must have been a pretty low standard, since Jesus called them "a brood of vipers, whitewashed tombs, and told them they were of their father, the devil." Outward conformity to the law and their traditions characterized the "righteousness" of the Pharisees, yet righteousness is not attained by works (Romans 4:5-6). The scribes and the Pharisees were the religious leaders of Israel. They were role models for the people to follow. The Jews looked at them for guidance. They must have believed that the scribes and the Pharisees were the first to enter the kingdom of Heaven. However, Jesus was teaching them that God's standard is higher than what man can accomplish.

Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So, if anyone says they have a revelation of Jesus, will you believe them? What if someone told you they had a revelation of Jesus, and told you unless you drink His physical blood, you are condemned forever. Will you believe them? I bet you won't believe it because Jesus never said such a thing.
I believe God's Word. ALL of it. I don't believe just anyone who says they have a revelation of Jesus, but I believe the apostle Paul in (Galatians 1:11-12) and you still have not answered my questions in regards to the gospel that Paul preached. So why do you keep dodging my questions? In regards to eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking His blood, I do not believe that Jesus was talking about literal cannibalism.

Jesus gives and sustains eternal life to all believers. "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:35) As Jesus was accustomed, He used figurative language to emphasize these spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)

Eating and drinking is in regards to the reception of God’s grace by believing in Christ, as Jesus makes abundantly clear by repeating the same truths both in metaphoric and plain language. Compare these verses below:

John 6:40 - Everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 - Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

John 6:58 - He who eats this bread will live forever.

Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary. :oldthumbsup:

More later. In the meantime, keep looking for the words of Jesus in which He said one is saved by grace through faith, not works. Ciao.
I don't need to look for those specific words in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John because I already found them in Ephesians 2:8,9 which is inspired by God and Jesus is God. In the meantime, be sure to take note of the gospel that Paul preached and received through a revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12) was about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). :)

*I'm still waiting for your answer to my question: What do YOU believe the gospel that Paul preached IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)
 
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Danthemailman

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So how does a man have genuine faith without works?

What is the evidence of genuine faith? Please tell everyone how a man has genuine faith without works.
Genuine faith is not without evidential works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) Simple!
 
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EmSw

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Genuine faith is not without evidential works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) Simple!

So, it is faith and works which saves.

Show us how faith alone saves without works. As you say, it is an empty profession/dead faith.
 
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Danthemailman

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So, it is faith and works which saves.

Show us how faith alone saves without works. As you say, it is an empty profession/dead faith.
No, we are saved through faith, not works, not faith and works (Ephesians 2:8,9) Saving faith in Christ is apart from the merit of works, yet authentic faith does not remain apart from the presence of works. Faith that "trusts in Christ alone" for salvation saves -- "saved through faith, not works." Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that "remains alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14)
 
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BBAS 64

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Let's see who God justifies.

Exodus 23:7
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Deuteronomy 25:1
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.

1 Kings 8:32
Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous, to give him according to his righteousness.

Will you say these verses are the truth? God does not justify the wicked, in fact, the wicked are condemned according to his ways (actions, works, life). God justifies the righteous according to his righteousness (righteous acts, truthfulness).

Now if you recall what blood denotes. We are justified by the truth which proceeds from Jesus.


Good day, Emsw

The better promise he Justifies the ungodly...

Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works..

I do not drink blood to do so would enjoin a crime, and violate the nature of Jerusalem council for all gentiles.

In Him,

Bill
 
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EmSw

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Good day, Emsw

The better promise he Justifies the ungodly...

Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works..

I do not drink blood to do so would enjoin a crime, and violate the nature of Jerusalem council for all gentiles.

In Him,

Bill

Good day Bill.

Could you please tell me what a 'better' promise is? It is my belief that all promises of God are good. I was also wondering if God changed His mind.

You bring up David and the words he spoke of righteousness. I have looked, and couldn't find David speaking 'of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works'. Maybe you can show me where David said this. I would appreciate it very much.

I did find this by David -

Psalm 15
1 Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.


Psalm 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Psalm 7:8
The Lord shall judge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

Psalm 18:24
Therefore hath the Lord recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.

Psalm 119:172
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
 
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BBAS 64

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Good day Bill.

Could you please tell me what a 'better' promise is? It is my belief that all promises of God are good. I was also wondering if God changed His mind.

You bring up David and the words he spoke of righteousness. I have looked, and couldn't find David speaking 'of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works'. Maybe you can show me where David said this. I would appreciate it very much.

I did find this by David -

Psalm 15
1 Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.


Psalm 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Psalm 7:8
The Lord shall judge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

Psalm 18:24
Therefore hath the Lord recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.

Psalm 119:172
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.



Good day, EmSw

The better promise would be Christ.

In Him,

Bill
 
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EmSw

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Good day, EmSw

The better promise would be Christ.

In Him,

Bill

Hello Bill. It is my understanding that Jesus was the One to whom the OT referred. This would also make the OT promises about Jesus.

Also, did you happen to find where David 'speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works'?

I wonder if anyone else knows where David said this?

I am wondering if this is the place.

Psalm 32
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom Jehovah imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Maybe you found it. If so, would you mind sharing? Thanks.
 
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BBAS 64

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Hello Bill. It is my understanding that Jesus was the One to whom the OT referred. This would also make the OT promises about Jesus.

Also, did you happen to find where David 'speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works'?

I wonder if anyone else knows where David said this?

I am wondering if this is the place.

Psalm 32
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom Jehovah imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Maybe you found it. If so, would you mind sharing? Thanks.


Good Day, Emsw

here it is in Hebrews 8

Hebrews 8

But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

That would be Romans 4-5:1


In Him,

Bill
 
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Butterball1

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I believed in OSAS before, and then got into the teaching that you can lose it, but now I am starting to lean back to OSAS and the ones who lost it never believed or had faith to begin with. So how is this possible? If one was in the maybe they believe category then they didn't believe. There is no maybe, its either they believe fully or they don't.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

So what did one do to lose it? Fall away from the faith, but they never had faith to begin with did they?

God's gift of salvation is CONDITIONAL. it is NOT UNconditional as OSAS falsely claims. One must meet the condition of having faith in order to receive the promise of salvation therefore must keep the condition (faith) in order to maintain possession of the promise of salvation. This is why the verb "believe" is present tense in many verses as John 3:16, that in order for one to not perish (be saved) one must conditionally believe and keep on believing.

Mr Charles Stanley erroneously thinks one can never sin as to lose the promise of eternal life, according to Mr Stanley one can even cast aside the necessary condition (belief) and yet still be saved..."Even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand" (Eternal Security — Can You Be Sure?, p74)

"Charles Stanley is not unaware of the weakness of his argument.He raises this question: “If our salvation is gained through believing in Christ, doesn’t it make sense that salvation would be lost if we quit believing?” (p. 73).

He concedes that such arguments sound “convincing,” but he believes he has a solution to the problem, and he spends several chapters in his book struggling with it.

As suggested in our discussion of John 3:18 (above), the promise of security is conditioned upon our sustained belief. The present tense form pisteuo (believe) is found several times in John’s Gospel within this type of context (cf. 3:14-16,18; 5:24; 6:29; 6:40).

Now what is the significance of the present tense in Greek? Dana & Mantey (two Baptist scholars) note that the “principle tense” for representing “action as continuous” is the present tense (A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, New York: Macmillan, 1968, p. 178). A.T. Robertson, the greatest Baptist grammarian ever, wrote: “the present tense expresses incompleted action” (A Short Grammar of the Greek New Testament, New York: Hodder & Stoughton, 1908, p. 140).

Quotations of this nature could be multiplied many times over.

I introduce this matter to emphasize that it is incredible that Mr. Stanley, in attempting to avoid the force of the present tense, should say: “The normal use of the present tense does not denote continuous, uninterrupted action” (p. 85).

The gentleman introduces John 4:13 in attempting to sustain his point. Jesus said, “Everyone who drinks [present tense] of this water [from Jacob’s well] shall thirst again.” He declares that it is ridiculous to suggest that those folks were “continuously drinking from Jacob’s well” (p. 86).

He will have to dispute the matter with one of his own spiritual kinsmen — a top Baptist scholar whose scholarship considerably eclipsed that of the Atlanta “Pastor.” Professor Kenneth Wuest translated John 4:13 in this way:

“Whosoever keeps on drinking of this water shall thirst again” (his emp.). He then comments: “Continual drinking at the wells of the world never quenches the soul’s thirst for heart satisfaction” (The Practical Use of the Greek New Testament, Chicago: Moody Press, 1946, p. 43).

Of course the people of Sychar were not drinking in an “uninterrupted” fashion; they were, however, drinking on a sustained basis. And that is what we must do. In spite of temporary lapses of faith due to weakness, we must progressively persevere — if we expect to enjoy eternal life. The tenses make this certain.

What is the point of all this? Mr. Stanley is trying to prove that one does not have to keep on believing in order to make his salvation secure.He advocates the notion that a Christian can completely abandon his faith in God and Christ, become a rank atheist, and the Lord will save him anyhow."
Can a Christian Ever Be Lost?



 
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