How many laws are too many?

LoveGodsWord · Jan 16, 2021

HARK! said:
So it's the same with the seventh day Sabbath.

I hope this helps.

Not at all, see the scriptures already provided in the previous posts. Unlike the annual Feast sabbaths that are linked only to the annual Feasts, it is impossible for God's 4th commandment to be a "shadow law" because there was no sin and no law and no plan of salvation when it was made for all mankind and it points backwards not forwards as a "memorial" *Exodus 20:8 of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth *Genesis 2:1-3.

HARK! · Jan 16, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
There are many kinds of sabbaths in the old testament scriptures

Please do explain exactly how one stopping is any different than another, at it's most basic level.

When YHWH says stop working; I stop working. I don't look for excuses to do my will over his. I don't seek to elevate myself above him. I humble myself before him.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 16, 2021

HARK! said:
So it's the same with the seventh day Sabbath.

I hope this helps.

No, See above post. This one is repetition.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 16, 2021

HARK! said:
Please do explain exactly how one stopping is any different than another, at it's most basic level.

When YHWH says stop working; I stop working. I don't look for excuses to do my will over his. I don't seek to elevate myself above him. I humble myself before him.

All the many kinds of sabbaths have a different purpose under the old covenant. God's 4th commandments is the only Sabbath linked to God as the creator of heaven and earth and linked as a memorial pointing backwards to the "seventh day" of the creation week that God blessed and made a "holy day" of "rest" for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3. It is not the same as the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" in the annual feast days that are linked only to the "shadow Feasts" that point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation for all mankind. God's law is eternal the "shadow laws" are fulfilled and continued in Jesus.

HARK! · Jan 16, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
All the many kinds of sabbaths have a different purpose under the old covenant. God's 4th commandments is the only Sabbath linked to God as the creator of heaven and earth and linked as a memorial pointing backwards to the "seventh day" of the creation week that God blessed and made a "holy day" of "rest" for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3. It is not the same as the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" in the annual feast days that are linked only to the "shadow Feasts" that point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation for all mankind. God's law is eternal the "shadow laws" are fulfilled and continued in Jesus.

All the Sabbaths are ceremonial.

All of the Sabbaths are shadows.

All of the sabbaths point to YHWH's plan for man's salvation, especially the seventh day Sabbath, as it is a rehearsal for entering his rest, a shadow of what is to come.

All of YHWH's word is in the covenant he made at Sinai. In the beginning was the word. YHWH does not change. he didn't send his son for us to live in lawlessness.

I don't pick and choose to ignore commandments that he expressly stated will stand forever, that will be honored in the kingdom to come, and say "He isn't talking to me. When he said forever, he meant someone else."

We will have to agree to disagree with what, YHWH specifically told Moses to tell YHWH's set apart people, stands forever.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 16, 2021

HARK! said:
All the Sabbaths are ceremonial.

All of the Sabbaths are shadows.

All of the sabbaths point to YHWH's plan for man's salvation, especially the seventh day Sabbath, as it is a rehearsal for entering his rest, a shadow of what is to come.

All of YHWH's word is in the covenant he made at Sinai. In the beginning was the word. YHWH does not change. he didn't send his son for us to live in lawlessness.

I don't pick and choose to ignore commandments that he expressly stated will stand forever, that will be honored in the kingdom to come, and say "He isn't talking to me. When he said forever, he meant someone else."

We will have to agree to disagree with what, YHWH specifically told Moses to tell YHWH's set apart people, stands forever.

Not really dear friend. Do you do animal sacrifices for sin on Gods' 7th day Sabbath anymore? If not why not? Where does it say to do animal sacrifices in God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11 or the new covenant? - It doesn't because the laws for remission of sins have changed under the new covenant. God's 4th commandment like all of God's 10 commandments are "moral laws" and the standard of right doing to God and our fellow man when obeyed from the heart and sin when disobeyed. As posted many times now God's 4th commandment is the only Sabbath that points backwards to creation in Genesis 2:1-3 (Remember the Sabbath day - Exodus 20:8) not forwards to things to come so it is impossible to be a "shadow law" like the sabbaths of the annual Feast days.

HARK! · Jan 16, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really dear friend. Do you do animal sacrifices for sin on Gods' 7th day Sabbath anymore? If not why not? Where does it say to do animal sacrifices in God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11 or the new covenant? - It doesn't because the laws for remission of sins have changed under the new covenant. God's 4th commandment like all of God's 10 commandments are "moral laws" and the standard of right doing to God and our fellow man when obeyed from the heart and sin when disobeyed. As posted many times now God's 4th commandment is the only Sabbath that points backwards to creation in Genesis 2:1-3 (Remember the Sabbath day - Exodus 20:8) not forwards to things to come so it is impossible to be a "shadow law" like the sabbaths of the annual Feast days.

You seem to be conflating the duties of the Levitical Priesthood, with the Torah that applies to all of Yah's people.

It would also seem that the definition of the word "forever" seems to change with regards to how it is applied to various points of your dogma.

Hopefully our Messiah can clear this up.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the ~~ten words~~

Wait, no, he didn't say that.

~~other than the ritual~~

Wait, no, he didn't say that either.

~~other than the ceremonial~~

Nope, not there.

~~other than select "Old Covenant"~~

Nope, Yahshua never mentioned an old covenant.

~~other than the law that YHWH intended for Moses~~

Ooops, not that either. Yahshua spent his entire ministry teaching the Torah given to Moses by our heavenly father, in complete submission to the Torah, as he called us to follow his example of obedience.

law to fall.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 16, 2021

HARK! said:
You seem to be conflating the duties of the Levitical Priesthood, with the Torah that applies to all of Yah's people.

It would also seem that the definition of the word "forever" seems to change with regards to how it is applied to various points of your dogma.

Hopefully our Messiah can clear this up.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the ~~ten words~~

Wait, no, he didn't say that.

~~other than the ritual~~

Wait, no, he didn't say that either.

~~other than the ceremonial~~

Nope, not there.

~~other than select "Old Covenant"~~

Nope, Yahshua never mentioned an old covenant.

~~other than the law that YHWH intended for Moses~~

Ooops, not that either. Yahshua spent his entire ministry teaching the Torah given to Moses by our heavenly father, in complete submission to the Torah, as he called us to follow his example of obedience.

law to fall.

Not really dear friend. Fulfilled does not mean abolished. The "shadow laws" are not abolished they are fulfilled in that to which they pointed to and are continued in Christ under the new covenant based on better promises and His work for mankind and ministration now as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world and as our great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands that the Lord pitched and not man of which the earthly was only a copy. Time for us to leave the "shadows" and continue them now in Christ under the new covenant to who they point to.

klutedavid · Jan 16, 2021

imge said:
You often hear the word "legalist" in reference to the commandments of God. The question is how many laws are too many?

In the US the Federal laws are too long to count! A List of Federal Laws (thelists.org)
Not to mention all the State, City and County laws- still too many to count. You're talking thousands and thousands of laws that we are all under and are suppose to obey.

Yet God's laws are simple and only 10. God asked us to keep His laws written in our hearts and minds, we do them (literally) because they are in our minds, but more importantly we obey out of our for love for God.

The only written and spoken scripture by God:

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I am surprised the word legalist and the commandments of God are used in the same sentence. God is the Creator of all things. We are here because of Him. What He asks of us seems so little in comparison. When we set out eyes on God and ask for His help to keep all His laws, why is this so difficult?

There are many more commandments in the text than what you listed.

HARK! · Jan 16, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really dear friend. Fulfilled does not mean abolished. The "shadow laws" are not abolished they are fulfilled in that to which they pointed to and are continued in Christ under the new covenant based on better promises and His work for mankind and ministration now as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world and as our great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands that the Lord pitched and not man of which the earthly was only a copy. Time for us to leave the "shadows" and continue them now in Christ under the new covenant to who they point to.

The Moedim were not completely fulfilled. The Sabbath hasn't completely been fulfilled either. You can't prove your assertions with scripture.

By what method you differentiate which shadows to obey and which to disobey?

LoveGodsWord · Jan 16, 2021

HARK! said:
The Moedim were not completely fulfilled. The Sabbath hasn't completely been fulfilled either. You can't prove your assertions with scripture.

Not really dear friend. I guess we will have to agree to disagree as I believe you have only made assertions with your words that are not God's Word, which you cannot prove by scripture in response to the scriptures and posts already shared with you in this OP. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4. We are in the new covenant now not the old. The laws for remission of sins have changed under the new covenant. The "shadow laws" are not abolished they are fulfilled in that to which they pointed to and are continued in Christ under the new covenant based on better promises and His work for mankind and ministration now as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world and as our great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands that the Lord pitched and not man of which the earthly was only a copy. Time for us to leave the "shadows" and continue them now in Christ under the new covenant to who they point to.

HARK! said:
By what method you differentiate which shadows to obey and which to disobey?

As shown through the scriptures already, no one disobeys the shadows that are continued and fulfilled in Christ. God's Word is the method used to differentiate what the shadow laws are which have already been shared with you in this OP but it seems you do not believe them or what has been shared with you already through the scriptures which are God's Word not my words.

HARK! · Jan 16, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really dear friend. I guess we will have to agree to disagree as I believe you have only made assertions with your words that are not God's Word, which you cannot prove by scripture in response to the scriptures and posts already shared with you in this OP. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4. We are in the new covenant now not the old.

Yah's word says forever.

You are free to believe what suits you.

LoveGodsWord said:
As shown through the scriptures already, no one disobeys the shadows that are continued and fulfilled in Christ. God's Word is the method used to differentiate what the shadow laws are which have already been shared with you in this OP but it seems you do not believe them.

Paul is not telling those at Colossae to rebel against YHWH's word, and playing the hypocrite by keeping the Moedim himself, and instructing others to keep them. Sorry, there must be another way to understand what he's telling his disciples at Colossae, who were surrounded by Ascetics.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 16, 2021

HARK! said:
Yah's word says forever.
You are free to believe what suits you.

True until all is fulfilled *Matthew 5:17-19. As posted earlier in the scriptures already shared with you none of the "shadows laws" are abolished they are fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to and God's work on our behalf in the new covenant in the Heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man of which the earthly was only a copy.

HARK! said:
Paul is not telling those at Colossae to rebel against YHWH's word, and playing the hypocrite by keeping the Moedim himself, and instructing others to keep them. Sorry, there must be another way to understand what he's telling his disciples at Colossae, who were surrounded by Ascetics.

No one said he was. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. Time to follow the Feasts in that to which they point to which is Christ and God's work on our behalf in the new covenant in the Heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man of which the earthly was only a copy..

HARK! · Jan 16, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
True until all is fulfilled *Matthew 5:17-19. As posted earlier in the scriptures already shared with you none of the "shadows laws" are abolished they are fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to and God's work on our behalf in the new covenant in the Heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man of which the earthly was only a copy.

Heaven nor earth have passed. Not all has been fulfilled. If you don't believe me; just take a look around.

LoveGodsWord said:
No one said he was. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. Time to follow the Feasts in that to which they point to.

I do follow the Moedim and the Shabbat in that which they point to; just like Moshe did.

Yahshua said the Torah stands forever; that heaven and earth will pass away before the Torah.

YHWH gave us the free will to believe in his word or not.

(CLV) Jn 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he writes concerning Me.

(CLV) Jn 5:47
Now if you are not believing his writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?"

When Messiah has left us; so will his shadow. That hasn't happened.

HARK! · Jan 16, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
True until all is fulfilled

That's not the definition of forever. You might try a different dictionary.

HARK! · Jan 16, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
No one said he was. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant.

So what are you saying? Are you saying that Paul wasn't in the Renewed covenant, because he followed YHWH's eternal commandments to keep his Moedim, as Paul taught his disciples to follow him as he followed Messiah?

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

HARK! · Jan 16, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
You do make a mistake however in thinking that God's law (10 commandments) which was the work of God alone, written with the finger of God on two tables of stone

You make the mistake of thinking that the renewed covenant is written on stone.

He will write his Torah on our hearts; so it is written.

By the way, the foremost precept wasn't written on stone with Yah's finger.

You can find out more about what YHWH said that he would write on our hearts here: What is the Foremost Precept of All?

Soyeong · Jan 16, 2021

imge said:
Thanks for your comments!

While God commanded laws to Moses, it seems like God made a point though to separate the Ten from the others. The Ten are the only scripture in the Bible both spoken and written by God. Moses wrote down laws that God spoke, but the Ten were written by God. Deuteronomy 4:13-14 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone. 14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.

Here, Moses separate between the Ten Commandments, which “he commanded you,” from the statues which “the Lord commanded me” to give the people.

Another example of the significance of the Ten is that is was placed in the most Holy of Holy in the ark Exodus 40:20 while the laws spoken to Moses were outside the ark Deuteronomy 31:26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

All of God's laws are part of the laws of God and have the same moral authority regardless of whether He wrote them, whether He told Moses to write them, or even if He had just spoken them without anyone writings them down, and all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), not just ten of them. While I agree that there was a distinction that was made between the Ten Commandments and God's other laws, that does not mean that God's other laws are not part of the laws of God, or that the Ten Commandments are not part of the laws of Moses.

Like for example circumcision, that is one of the Ten and was later defined as such when Paul said 1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

I think that your sentence might have gotten garble, so can you please clarify it?

LoveGodsWord · Jan 16, 2021

HARK! said:
Heaven nor earth have passed. Not all has been fulfilled. If you don't believe me; just take a look around.

No one said Heaven and earth had passed away. No one said all had been fulfilled. What are you talking about? We are still here aren't we? The shadow laws for remission of sins are fulfilled in Christ to who they pointed to and are continued under his ministration in the Heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands of which the earthly was a copy.

HARK! said:
I do follow the Moedim and the Shabbat in that which they point to; just like Moshe did. Yahshua said the Torah stands forever; that heaven and earth will pass away before the Torah.

Really? What did the Feast days point to then? Where is your animal sacrifices then for your sin offerings; your Levite Priest and earthly Sanctuary? These all were shadows of things to come fulfilled in the new covenant promise. How can you practice the old testament Feast days without the above? - You cannot

HARK! said:
YHWH gave us the free will to believe in his word or not. (CLV) Jn 5:4 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he writes concerning Me. (CLV) Jn 5:47 Now if you are not believing his writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?" When Messiah has left us; so will his shadow. That hasn't happened.

Then I suggest believing the scriptures, God's sacrifice for the sins of the world has arrived as has his ministration in the heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands in the new covenant. JESUS is now our great high Priest ministering on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary of which the earthly was only a copy. The "shadow laws" for remission of sins are now based on better promises dear friend. Time to leave the "shadows" of the old and continue them in the new to which they point to. It is the Messiah the "shadow laws" for remission of sin point to at his coming death on the cross, His resurrection and ministration now in the heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands.

Hope this is helpful

LoveGodsWord · Jan 16, 2021

HARK! said:
That's not the definition of forever. You might try a different dictionary.

Sure it is, as the "shadows" are fulfilled in that to which they point to (JESUS) and are continued in His ministration in the new covenant in the Heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands of which the earthly was a copy. No more animal sacrifices and sin offering dear friend or Levitical Priesthood or earthly Sanctuary which were "shadows of things to come"

How many laws are too many?

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