finding truth in Christianity

Albion · Jan 16, 2021

Dave L said:
If you find the starting point of the Reformation, you will find truth in its purest form. Luther, Calvin, and the rest of the Reformers believed the same.

You know that's not true. They were "the same" in some ways but disagreed on some very important matters at the same time.

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

ParadiseMkX said:
Wouldn't free will work just because God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent so whatever we choose to do He makes good? Though like a cleanup crew I suppose He'd prefer it if we chose to do good, insofar as we are able.

That puts you in control of God. The way it works is every choice we base on a reason. God controls our free choices through the reasons he confronts us with. (Chapter 3 Westminster Confession interpreted).

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

Albion said:
You know that's not true. They were "the same" in some ways but disagreed on some very important matters at the same time.

They based their systems on the Council of Ephesus condemning Pelagius (free will) as a heretic and Augustine having the truth.

Albion · Jan 16, 2021

chilehed said:
I struggled with this exact question for a long time. After much prayerful study, this was my conclusion:
Why I believe in the Magesterium of the Catholic Church

Haven't you merely decided to accept the claim of the Catholic Church that whatever is said of the church in scripture applies to that particular denomination rather than to some other one? A number of other denominations can and do point to essentially the same information and say, "it's us!"

Albion · Jan 16, 2021

Dave L said:
They based their systems on the Council of Ephesus condemning Pelagius (free will) as a heretic and Augustine having the truth.

You're still treating the Reformation as though there were only one issue. It's not just about free will vs. something else. Far from it. Even if it had been a single-issue movement, Luther, Calvin, and the others did not agree on the alternative to free will.

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

Albion said:
You're still treating the Reformation as though there were only one issue. It's not just about free will vs. something else. Far from it.

I'm treating the issue of correct theology. Take the rest if you want, but it's not my intent.

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

ParadiseMkX said:
With the intended will of God being the establishment of the new Heavens and Earth? Just having a read of that article you cited and trying to understand it, it's interesting. Humbling.

You control God in human matters if he responds to you.

Albion · Jan 16, 2021

Dave L said:
I'm treating the issue of correct theology. Take the rest if you want, but it's not my intent.

I understand, but the post you replied to was mainly about a different aspect of the Reformation, so you can see how I took it that your response in post #25 about Augustine, etc. wasn't just a counter to the post you quoted.

Aussie Pete · Jan 16, 2021

Jesusthekingofking said:
I was baptised in a protestant church, so my exposure is merely protestant. The problem with protestant is that we the bible only mindset, we are proud of our reformation in the 16th century, and that can makes us bias and willing to open up to the true christianity. The sad part about protestantism it is a mess, each denomination interpret their bible in their own way and no true unity btw them, each claim they are right and know how to read the bible best, this open up to false teaching and invite wolves into the churches.

so how does one find truth in Christianity. i don't deny the authority of the bible but i'm interested in the correct interpretation of the bible. that being said I've to read the early christian writings, read tons of theologian from different branch of christianity including roman catholic and eastern orthodox, study hard about church history.. right? I was an ostrich I mainly listen to whosoever pastor me in a church, I think it's time for me to do my due diligence. What are some of the advice I can get for those who have went through it?

First and foremost, you need to know that doctrine is way less important than being spiritually alive. Most of the debates about predestination, eschatology, the rapture, millennialism and such are pointless and often divisive. It's good to know the Book of the Lord. It is far more important to know the Lord of the Book. I teach the Bible, so I am still a student myself.

I call myself non-denominational for a reason. Over nearly 50 years, I have found very little real differences in doctrine of protestant denominations. I've found even less interest from church attenders about the doctrines that differentiate denominations. I am also convinced that God does not have a theology exam in order to ascertain position in God's kingdom. God looks for fruit, not doctrinal perfection.

My advice is to ask God for the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation. Read the Bible with an open mind and a receptive heart. Ask God to show you what a passage means, not just what it says. Keep a notebook handy and write down anything that is a revelation.

How do you know it is revelation? It is not easy to describe, but you will know. You can read the same passage many times and not realise what it is saying. I remember the time when I read that I should treat my job as if I was working for God (Colossians 3:23). It made a big difference how I approached work. I'd read that verse before but it had no impact. Then the light came on - revelation.

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

Albion said:
I understand, but the post you replied to was mainly about a different aspect of the Reformation, so you can see how I took it that your response in post #25 about Augustine, etc. wasn't just a counter to the post you quoted.

I assumed we were talking theology.

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
First and foremost, you need to know that doctrine is way less important than being spiritually alive. Most of the debates about predestination, eschatology, the rapture, millennialism and such are pointless and often divisive. It's good to know the Book of the Lord. It is far more important to know the Lord of the Book. I teach the Bible, so I am still a student myself.

I call myself non-denominational for a reason. Over nearly 50 years, I have found very little real differences in doctrine of protestant denominations. I've found even less interest from church attenders about the doctrines that differentiate denominations. I am also convinced that God does not have a theology exam in order to ascertain position in God's kingdom. God looks for fruit, not doctrinal perfection.

My advice is to ask God for the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation. Read the Bible with an open mind and a receptive heart. Ask God to show you what a passage means, not just what it says. Keep a notebook handy and write down anything that is a revelation.

How do you know it is revelation? It is not easy to describe, but you will know. You can read the same passage many times and not realise what it is saying. I remember the time when I read that I should treat my job as if I was working for God (Colossians 3:23). It made a big difference how I approached work. I'd read that verse before but it had no impact. Then the light came on - revelation.

The truth sets free. False doctrine binds even the most "on fire for Jesus".

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

ParadiseMkX said:
Nup, no controlling of God or attempts thereof please and thank you.

Also, am I supposed to want to be one of the elect or is that prideful? I don't want to be part of some elite club if it means other people have to suffer, or even knowing that they'd be suffering. New Heavens and Earth is the only way that'd work for me because that'd be a bright and shining future for everyone, or slumming it with the unrighteous because then I'd logically be able to do most good for those that need it.

Do you think God chose you because you are a cut above the rest?

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

ParadiseMkX said:
Is there a way to make him unchoose me, if indeed I am chosen? Just trying to make sense of things in a way that is good.

No. He chooses whom he will, even those who hate him most. You are either a slave to Satan or a slave of Christ.

Scott Husted · Jan 16, 2021

Jesusthekingofking said:
I was baptised in a protestant church, so my exposure is merely protestant. The problem with protestant is that we the bible only mindset, we are proud of our reformation in the 16th century, and that can makes us bias and willing to open up to the true christianity. The sad part about protestantism it is a mess, each denomination interpret their bible in their own way and no true unity btw them, each claim they are right and know how to read the bible best, this open up to false teaching and invite wolves into the churches.

so how does one find truth in Christianity. i don't deny the authority of the bible but i'm interested in the correct interpretation of the bible. that being said I've to read the early christian writings, read tons of theologian from different branch of christianity including roman catholic and eastern orthodox, study hard about church history.. right? I was an ostrich I mainly listen to whosoever pastor me in a church, I think it's time for me to do my due diligence. What are some of the advice I can get for those who have went through it?

A loaded question ...

Albion · Jan 16, 2021

Dave L said:
I assumed we were talking theology.

Yes, but one "problem," was that what I referred to concerned your reply to one poster, but you've since moved on to an exchange with a different member where the subject is a bit different. That's why we seemed not to be speaking the same language.

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

ParadiseMkX said:
Classic God move; think you're signing your soul away to Satan for more hookers and cocaine and endless BBQ's and good music in Hell and boom, the old switcheroo and suddenly you're Christian and it's angels all the way up.

So who do you think you serve? God or Satan?

Albion · Jan 16, 2021

ParadiseMkX said:
Is there a way to make him unchoose me, if indeed I am chosen? Just trying to make sense of things in a way that is good.

Whichever way you answer that question, there's some denomination happy to see you agreeing with its particular view and looking forward to seeing you in church this Sunday!

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

Albion said:
Yes, but one "problem," was that what I referred to concerned your reply to one poster, but you've since moved on to an exchange with a different member where the subject is a bit different. That's why we seemed not to be speaking the same language.

This happens from time to time. I often get many replies and lose track. Sorry.

Aussie Pete · Jan 16, 2021

Dave L said:
The truth sets free. False doctrine binds even the most "on fire for Jesus".

I'm not talking about false doctrine. I'm referring to the endless debates that can never be resolved until Jesus returns and we all find out where we are right or wrong. I've heard of assemblies that have split over the method of immersion baptism. One group said face first into the water, the other insisted the believer had to go backwards. I met someone who knew the Bible inside out, studied Greek and Hebrew, was an ordained minister and routinely got drunk with the sailors on the base. He criticised my lack of Bible knowledge (I was a new Christian) but disobeyed God's word. I've met others who were similarly qualified who were hard hearted and full of religious pride. I'd much rather deal with someone who knows Jesus and wants to know Him. Wrong doctrine can be corrected. A wrong heart is much harder to fix.

Dave L · Jan 16, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
I'm not talking about false doctrine. I'm referring to the endless debates that can never be resolved until Jesus returns and we all find out where we are right or wrong. I've heard of assemblies that have split over the method of immersion baptism. One group said face first into the water, the other insisted the believer had to go backwards. I met someone who knew the Bible inside out, studied Greek and Hebrew, was an ordained minister and routinely got drunk with the sailors on the base. He criticised my lack of Bible knowledge (I was a new Christian) but disobeyed God's word. I've met others who were similarly qualified who were hard hearted and full of religious pride. I'd much rather deal with someone who knows Jesus and wants to know Him. Wrong doctrine can be corrected. A wrong heart is much harder to fix.

How do you become Christ-like apart from the hard-core truth?

finding truth in Christianity

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