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Agallagher said:

She talked about something how we try to be good person, and never mentions anything about God.

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Mark 10:18 So Jesus said to him, Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.

Most (if not all) of the Law is beneficial in terms of consequences.

People, saved & unsaved, benefit when they abide by it, but no one can do so perfectly. That is why we need a Savior.

If you can refrain from robbing banks, continue to do so.

I don't know if there necessarily needs to be a dilemma. Certainly, we cannot be self-aggrandizing or feeling like it is our merits that are important but that doesn't mean we can't strive to be good or consider ourselves good. While humility and sober assessment of our faults is critical, we should be comfortable saying of ourselves:

The Lord dealt with me according to my righteousness;
according to the cleanness of my hands he rewarded me.
21 For I have kept the ways of the Lord,
and have not wickedly departed from my God.
22 For all his rules were before me,
and his statutes I did not put away from me.
23 I was blameless before him,
and I kept myself from my guilt.
24 So the Lord has rewarded me according to my righteousness,
according to the cleanness of my hands in his sight.

We can see that people aren't good from their early childhood. Even really well behaved sweet little children tell lies, they're selfish, they're covetous, they disobey, they're rebellious (one of the first words a child learns is "NO!" and so on.

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Agallagher said:

ust got off the phone with my mother who is 60 years old.

She talked about something how we try to be good person, and never mentions anything about God.

She asked told me 'Why wouldn't you try to be a good person'.

I mentioned to her, that I am not a good person, and she disagree yet wonder how is it possible to come this conclusion.

She said ' What if someone says hey you know matthew ? ' and someone responds, ' yeah he is a good person' wouldn't you want that?

I said ' It doesn't matter what they say about me if I am a good person '

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I've been actually meaning to Blog on this general topic. Long ago there was a term of a Tzedek (righteous one) used to describe the people of Faith in the Bible like Abraham. That seems like an accepted custom etc. In the Gospels however, Jesus seems to make a kind of rhetorical objection to it, where someone calls him something like "Good Teacher", he asks "Why do you call me Good?, Don't you know there is only One who is Good and that is God?" Which I think was him jabbing the Pharisees for believing themselves righteous by their Law keeping and possibly a test to see if the person might make a profession of Faith that he is the Messiah and more than your average "good Jew".


In some ways etc. I like this sort of thing, if the comment is not coming from Humanistic sentiments because it can be a sign that you are making a difference in people's lives etc. as far as a real ministry goes.

Agallagher said:

You are right about not promoting oneself in a narcissistic way, we are to consider others important as well, and their interest. You are speaking like my mother when you speak about striving to be good, or consider ourselves good, what about the scripture that minister had shared?

You are right about the humble and humility facets that are brought to us from God making us lower in stature in recognition of the Lord Jesus Christ, and all he has done for us by forgiving us of our faults, mistakes, and ways that were not attributed to his.

The only righteousness we obtain by faith on the Lord Jesus Christ is of God.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

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A lot of the discussion on righteousness is poisoned by a false humility that takes a pessimistic view of humanity. The so called "low view of man, high view of God." The assessment is a misapplication of a handful of Scriptures that are stated for a point. Mark 10:18's translation is somewhat trickier than is often portrayed, with Jesus' response possibly being better put as "why do you speak of what is good?" but in any case it was likely to draw attention to the careless way the ruler was seeking answers from men, so Jesus turned the attention towards God. To denigrate yourself as unrighteous when God has declared you righteous is not honoring to God.

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Agallagher said:

Fervent, well my only intentions was to just state that our righteousness comes from God. Your are probably right, and my logic is probably wrong. Though we are made righteous through faith and you are right about that, we are sinners saved by grace after all. Thank you so much for taking time to share, and sharing your wisdom.

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An important thing to remember, for sure. It's a difficult line to walk, as pride would have us hold ourselves up as paragons of virtue and seek the glory for our righteousness, so we cannot consider ourselves good in that sense. Yet within the church it seems to me there is often a religious pride as to who can belittle themselves the most as if that somehow serves God that I believe we must also be on guard for. Many in the Bible were commended for their righteousness, and the epistloatory material identifies believers as Holy ones and a royal priesthood. God gets the glory, but it is not served in ignoring that when God justifies us He makes us righteous. We are heirs and saints, sons and daughters of the Most High. Not merely sinners or even former sinners.

Agallagher said:

The Good Person Dilemma


Do you strive to be a good person?
What makes you a good person?
Have you done many good things for others?
When was the last time you talked about yourself being a good person?​

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Well, there is a difference between...

For who ultimately does the "good work" in a believer's life?

Is it God?
Or is it the believer?

Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who ultimately does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1-2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22-24 (cf. Matthew 7:16-18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26-27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

So no. I do not believe in Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism. I believe if someone truly has accepted the LORD and Christ lives within them, then good fruit (And not bad fruit) will be evident in their life to prove that the One who is salvation itself abides within them (1 John 5:12) (See also 1 John 2:3-4). So a believer who does good gives praise unto the Lord or God because it is the Lord doing the good work in them. A believer will not boast in their own goodness because there is no such thing. Only God alone is good, and a believer cooperates with God so as to allow God to work in them.


Right, a person cannot be saved by good works alone without God's grace. So your mother would be wrong if she is suggesting that a person can be good without God and without His grace. First, we need to have our past slate of sin wiped out before we can even walk uprightly. Two, most folks of this world (Who have not accepted Christ) trivialize sin. So they see good people, and bad people in terms of their own sense of morality and not in God's sense of morality according to His Word.

Now, we all have sinned as a part of our old life before being saved by God's grace. No doubt about it. However, the problem today is that popular candy coated Christianity believes it is impossible to put away grievous sin (i.e. mortal sin or sins that lead to spiritual death) within this life. They think they are slaves to sin in this life. But Jesus said, he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34). Being a slave to sin means it is your master. But Jesus said you cannot serve two masters (Matthew 6:24), so the one who thinks they are a sinner (currently by their present behavior) and yet they also believe they are saved by God's grace is faced with a real dilemma that forces them to either face the truth of what God's Word says against the popular sin and still be saved camp of Christianity or they put on a blind fold to such a truth. Paul said we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). Did Christ ever think he was a sinner saved by God's grace? No. Then neither should we. Well, that is if you believe the verses I have put forth here. Most today just bury their head in the sand to such verses and or they attempt to change them because they don't like them. I pray that you will not do that.

For many in Christianity fail to understand the purpose or goal as to why Jesus died for us.

For they don't accept these below verses at face value in what they plainly say.

“...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:25-27).

“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14).

Agallagher said:

What do you mean by your last comment humanistic sentiments ?

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It's the cultural assumption that "good people go to heaven", and by "good" the person tends to mean anybody who is not a criminal, or other notorious person based on popular standards. The label humanist comes from the movement that tends to see human nature as innately good etc.

I got on this topic years ago, when I was a part time seminary student, and an uncle from my dad's Czechoslovak family bothered me during this one Family get together that I was basically wasting my time etc. Because I was working a survival job, and studying this stuff and he basically didn't see any future in it etc. But this guy, also had a big ego and thought he knew everything about everything because he was successful in his career etc. (He was a bit Trumpian before Trump had his TV shows etc. And actually read some of Trump books because he dabbled getting into real estate development).


Anyway we had a big argument because he thought he knew about everything as far as Christianity goes, but since he sort of pushed my buttons and put me on the defensive I took the time to point out how his view about "good people go to heaven" which was quiet common in Europe especially Bavaria where my father's family settled after WWII, was not in the Bible, nor was it in any of his Lutheran Confirmation Classes that he took in his younger years. He more or less just absorbed the popular sentiment of the liberal Southern German culture. e.g. he felt he was good enough to get in heaven as is, I had to remind him what his status was without Jesus etc.

Agallagher said:

Thank you @Bible Highlighter, and everyone who commented. It has been nice to read and address you my mind hasn't been in scripture as much as it use to be.

Somehow forgotten that we by believing are given the ability to become sons and daughters of God equipped to do good works, in which God helps us to perform.

You all have a good night!

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Let the Lord get all the glory, my friend.
For I am nothing, and Christ is everything.

Agallagher said:

Did you know Jeffery Dahmer near the end of his life, changed his life around to God before he was killed in prison cell?

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I had heard that. I have heard that other serial killers have gotten Saved in prison, too. (IIRC, one of my previous pastors led [correction: someone < 1984 in Washington] to Salvation. )

Those of us who haven't crossed that line still need a Savior, but I am happy to have missed prison. It is definitely not on my bucket list!