Who are the rightful occupier's of the holy Land?

Spiritual Jew

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You show a sad ignorance about what God desires and what His prophets said:
Isaiah 66:5-6 Hear the Word of the Lord, you who revere His Name and keep His commandments. Those scoffers who say: Where is the Lord? When will your so-called God do anything? They will be shocked, for with a great noise His retribution will fall upon them. 2 Peter 3:3-10

Isaiah 63:18 Why have ungodly people trespassed on Your holy place? Why do enemies trample the holy Land? Psalms 37:10-11, Jeremiah 6:12

Jeremiah 12:8-17 Is this Land of Mine a hyena’s lair? The birds of prey and the wild beasts have taken My holy Land over, they ravage it and trample it down, making it a desolation, to My sorrow. The Lord says: I shall uproot all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that I allotted to My people. Judah too, I shall uproot, but if any of them learn the right ways of My people, then they can join and live again in the holy Land. My sword of punishment will devour the Land from end to end, no living thing will remain there. Hosea 4:3, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 6:11-13

Psalms 7:12-16 The enemy prepares his weapons again, but it is against himself that he has made ready his deadly shafts, tipped with fire. They are all in collusion with iniquity and sinfulness, their plans for violence and terror will fall upon their own heads. Joel 3:4

Psalms 68:1-3 May God arise and His enemies be scattered. He will disperse them like smoke. His fire will melt them like wax and they will perish in the heat of His wrath, but the righteous will be joyful, as they exult in the triumph of their God.

Isaiah 29:5-6 Suddenly, all in an instant, punishment will come from God Almighty with thunder, earthquakes and a great noise, with storm tempest and flames of devouring fire. The horde of your enemies will crumble into dust, that multitude of ruthless foes will scatter like chaff. Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 24, Joel 2:30-31, 1 Thessalonians 5:3, Revelation 6:12-17, +


Micah 5:7-15 All the remnant of the descendants of Jacob, now dispersed among the nations, will become like dew from the Lord, they will look only to Him who saves them. Their enemy’s will be destroyed, but on that Day their military power will be lost, all the occult followers will die and any things of idol worship will be gone. Amos 9:10 In anger and fury the Lord will wreak vengeance on all the peoples who disobey Him. Isaiah 66:15-17

Zechariah 8:11-13 The Lord says: I do not feel the same now toward the remnant of My people, as I did in former days. Hosea 11:8-11 Now I shall save you and bless you, you will work the Land in safety, the sky will give rain and the soil will yield abundant produce. Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:23-27, Amos 9:13-15, Jer. 30:18-22
Ref: REB abridged and paraphrased.


Birds of prey and wild beasts have taken over My Land… and the evil neighbours… These are metaphors for the ungodly peoples who are now living in the holy Land.

The enemies deadly shafts, tipped with fire – an ancient description for a modern weapon: a nuke tipped missile. It is against themselves they have prepared their weapons and they will fall onto their own heads. Psalms 64:1-10, Habakkuk 3:3-14

All the weapons ready to fire at Israel will explode on the launch pad or in their bunkers. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come in the heat of the Lord’s wrath, causing earthquakes with flames of fire that will burn His enemies to ashes. As described here and throughout the Bible, this will be a Coronal Mass Ejection, a huge unprecedented explosion of the suns surface, that will fulfill all the graphic prophecies about the Lord’s judgement by fire. Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4:1 & 3

But the punishment by exile of the Lord’s people, who are now every faithful Christian, will be completed and the Lord will save and bless them. They will go to their inheritance, all that area promised to Abraham, cleansed from end to end by this terrible devastation by fire.

Many prophecies tell about the great second Exodus of the Christian Israelites to the holy Land, where they will work the Land in safety, being a light to the nations, Matthew 5:14-16, all as originally meant for them. Isaiah 49:3-8
They will send out 144,000 missionaries to tell the world the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 7:1-8 & 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:18b-21
The bottom line here is as long as you continue to not allow the New Testament to illuminate the Old Testament prophecies for you, you will continue to misinterpret those Old Testament prophecies. You should interpret them in light of the New Testament instead of the other way around. The New Testament was intended to reveal the mysteries of the Old Testament, but you fail to understand that.

Do you as well, reject what the Prophets said?
We Christians are the members of the Spiritual Kingdom now, which will become a physical Kingdom when King Jesus Returns.
But we cannot ignore what the Bible tells us must happen before that glorious time.
Jesus will be handing the kingdom over to the Father when He returns at the end of the age, as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 and Jesus taught in Matthew 13:36-43.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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No; Matthew 25:31-33 is a separation of the nations, done by Jesus at His Return.
Acts 17:30 refers to the final Judgment of every individual. Revelation 20:11-15
Please explain how entire nations can either "inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matt 25:34) or "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41). Where is such a concept taught in scripture? I don't believe it is.

Clearly, it is individuals, not nations, who will inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the word (1 Cor 15:50-54, Rev 21:1-5) and individuals, not nations, who will be cast "into everlasting fire" (Rev 20:15). Your interpretation of Matthew 25:31-46 does not line up at all with the rest of scripture.
 
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timothyu

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timothyu

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Please explain how entire nations
Some people are desperate to believe their nation, due to a lifetime of allegiance, are the good guys. They refuse to see how their might could serve others purposes such as seeking wealth and control, making them self serving which is putting their will ahead of the will of God. (actually there is no nation not guilty of that)
 
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keras

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Please explain how entire nations can either "inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"
Nations are people groups, they consist of individuals, with a common ancestry or even just where they live.
Christians are described as a nation, Matthew 21:43, WE will inherit the Kingdom.
The bottom line here is as long as you continue to not allow the New Testament to illuminate the Old Testament prophecies for you, you will continue to misinterpret those Old Testament prophecies. You should interpret them in light of the New Testament instead of the other way around. The New Testament was intended to reveal the mysteries of the Old Testament, but you fail to understand that.
I read all the prophesies as a coherent whole. All of the Bible gives the picture of God's plan for humankind.
Your kind of exegesis will only get you confusion.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Nations are people groups, they consist of individuals, with a common ancestry or even just where they live.
Christians are described as a nation, Matthew 21:43, WE will inherit the Kingdom.
Are you saying that you interpret Matthew 25:31-46 to be referring to two nations, with the sheep nation being Christians and the goat nation being non-Christians?

Do you believe anyone with mortal flesh and blood will inherit the kingdom at that time?

I read all the prophesies as a coherent whole. All of the Bible gives the picture of God's plan for humankind.
Your kind of exegesis will only get you confusion.
No, I believe it brings perfect clarity. Your private interpretations can only be understood by you and no one else.
 
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keras

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Are you saying that you interpret Matthew 25:31-46 to be referring to two nations, with the sheep nation being Christians and the goat nation being non-Christians?
Yes, that is what will happen when Jesus Returns. The 'goat' people will all die. at Armageddon or before and only the 'sheep' of God, will go into the Millennium.
Do you believe anyone with mortal flesh and blood will inherit the kingdom at that time?
Everyone will still be mortal, including the resurrected Trib martyrs. Rev 20:4
Only after the Millennium, do those whose names are Written in the Book of Life; receive immortality. Revelation 20:11-15
Your private interpretations can only be understood by you and no one else.
I believe and promote what the Bible Prophets said.
That you and most cannot understand it, is just how it was and still is.
Isaiah 42:18-20
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Everyone will still be mortal, including the resurrected Trib martyrs. Rev 20:4
Only after the Millennium, do those whose names are Written in the Book of Life; receive immortality. Revelation 20:11-15
You are contradicting what Paul taught with your belief that flesh and blood mortals will inherit the kingdom.

You have this:

Matthew 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Happening 1000+ years before this:

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

You are making Paul and Jesus contradict each other if you think that Jesus is telling mortals with flesh and blood to inherit the kingdom in Matthew 25:34.

When I say you don't interpret scripture with scripture, this is a prime example of what I'm talking about.
 
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RDKirk

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This is a really tough question, especially because it seems always to involve world affairs and international rivalries outside of Israel/Palestine.

But it is interesting, as we try to sort through the rhetoric and get to a good answer, to note that the moral high ground is occupied by those who seek fairness and compensation, etc. for Native Americans (at least according to the media and academia), while the same people are aligned against the descendants of the first identifiable inhabitants of the area in the Middle East...and in favor of the descendants of those who took it for themselves by military action. So how do we assess such duplicity?

It's presumptuous that any of those "same people" or "descendants" are who you claim they are or did what you claim they did or were where you claim they were.
 
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RDKirk

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I suggest to those people whose beliefs are challenged, they should seriously consider what it is that God wants of them. Is it to just go and sit in heaven, or is it to do His work on earth?

We should be doing what Jesus explicitly commanded us to do.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

None of these side quests and mission creeps.
 
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Douggg

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1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

You are making Paul and Jesus contradict each other if you think that Jesus is telling mortals with flesh and blood to inherit the kingdom in Matthew 25:34.
The verse is just indicating that Christians will not got through eternity in our present bodies, i.e. earthly which we inherited from Adam.

1Corinthians15 is about the resurrection, the superiority of the resurrected body to our current bodies.

And also about the rapture, in 1Corinthians15:51-52.
 
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keras

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You are making Paul and Jesus contradict each other if you think that Jesus is telling mortals with flesh and blood to inherit the kingdom in Matthew 25:34.
Paul is referring to Eternity.
Jesus inherits the Kingdom at His Return and reigns for the next 1000 years. THEN comes Eternity.
It is your AMill error that is confusion.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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The verse is just indicating that Christians will not got through eternity in our present bodies, i.e. earthly which we inherited from Adam.

1Corinthians15 is about the resurrection, the superiority of the resurrected body to our current bodies.

And also about the rapture, in 1Corinthians15:51-52.
No, it's saying that at the last trumpet, all believers from all-time will inherit the kingdom of God with spiritual, immortal bodies. That is who the sheep are in Matthew 25:31-46. The rest, referred to as goats, will be cast "into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41).

If you have mortals with flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God at any point then that is a contradiction of 1 Corinthians 15:50.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Paul is referring to Eternity.
Jesus inherits the Kingdom at His Return and reigns for the next 1000 years. THEN comes Eternity.
It is your AMill error that is confusion.
No, he is referring to who can inherit the kingdom of God. You have mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God in Matthew 25:34 and that contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:50. There is no way around that.
 
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RDKirk

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No, he is referring to who can inherit the kingdom of God. You have mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God in Matthew 25:34 and that contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:50. There is no way around that.

I don't see a conflict between them. There is no reason to presume there is not a change physical structure in Matthew 25:34. Certainly a great many Christians will need re-created bodies...remember how many never got a "proper burial" or even died in one piece.
 
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keras

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No, he is referring to who can inherit the kingdom of God. You have mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God in Matthew 25:34 and that contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:50. There is no way around that.
You misapply 1 Corinthians 15:50-56. That prophecy belongs to the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium. Proved by how it is only then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:4
 
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Douggg

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No, it's saying that at the last trumpet, all believers from all-time will inherit the kingdom of God with spiritual, immortal bodies. That is who the sheep are in Matthew 25:31-46. The rest, referred to as goats, will be cast "into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41).

If you have mortals with flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God at any point then that is a contradiction of 1 Corinthians 15:50.
Paul was talking about the "change" to the bodies of believers from the type of bodies we have now, to eternal life bodies. Our current bodies of a limited life span would not last in the eternal kingdom of God.

"Who" inherits the kingdom of God is a different issue. Them who reject Jesus will not inherit the kingdom of God. Believers, while they are living, albeit in mortal bodies, names are in the will to inherit the kingdom of God.


As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 
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Douggg

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timothyu

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Simply a matter of choice between the world man has made in our own image or the Kingdom of God. Governance of man or governance of God. Our will or the will of God. Allegiance to the flesh or allegiance to the spirit. Allowing the instincts of fleshy man to dominate or the image of God within us to dominate and work through us..
 
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