Who are the rightful occupier's of the holy Land?

Timtofly · Jan 12, 2021

BABerean2 said:
The Final Judgment (subtitle from eSword)

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

You are the one who defines the sheep without a genealogy and among all the nations. Are you refuting your own arguments Now?

Did I say just the Nation of Israel?

The Trumpets cover the sheep and the goats. The Thunders cover the wheat and the tares. The Seals cover the church.

The church leaves because those living join those really living.

Then the house of Jacob is gathered, the sheep separated from the goats. All DEAD!

Then the Nations are judge. All DEAD!

Except not all are dead. The church was not complete. The sheep and goats, complete. The wheat and tares all gathered, all complete, all DEAD. How about them apostate church members? Why are some humans still alive? The last few generations of church goers have been taught to endure to the end, so yep, we have some in every nation, running the government even. 10 nations full of apostate people enduring to the end. Some decide to get their heads chopped off, and the rest follow Satan to Armageddon. Waiting there for the "Second Coming". Obviously the sheep and goats already were sent to their eternal lives. How can they as dead souls appear at Armageddon? How can you read English from finish, back to the beginning, and make any sense? The 7th Trumpet stops at the end of Armageddon. Time does not then go backwards and the sheep and goats are separated between the 6th and 1st Trumpets. Why is it so difficult to see the Lamb was already on the earth during the Trumpets and that is when the sheep and goats are sent to their eternal rewards of either life or damnation?

Timtofly · Jan 12, 2021

timothyu said:
According to the Encyclpaedia Judaica, Jews believed that atonement for a life of sins was simply death

Death is the restoration of all things? The point is about restoring the earth under the effects of sin. Atonement only covers the soul as that is the only thing that continues into the NHNE.

The off topic subject is the restoration of physical earth to a perfect land flowing with milk and honey. Keras, and I agree on this point, mentions that the ME is physically restored. After 1000 years a perfect earth and kingdom is handed to God, and Death the last enemy is destroyed.

Jesus does not hand God a burnt offering. They seem to forget the end of burnt offerings was at the Cross. Yet many claim Jesus hands God a burnt offering instead of a perfect and complete Kingdom.

jeffweedaman · Jan 12, 2021

Timtofly said:
How does the Atonement apply to the physical condition of the earth itself?

The moment Man sinned immediately effected the physical condition of the earth.

The moment Jesus atoned, gave birth to the promise of a NHNE when he comes again. But first people from all Nations must partake of his atonement and then the end shall come.
Heaven and earth will pass away but his promise to come for us will not.

2Pet 3
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Timtofly · Jan 12, 2021

jeffweedaman said:
The moment Man sinned immediately effected the physical condition of the earth.

The moment Jesus atoned, gave birth to the promise of a NHNE when he comes again. But first people from all Nations must partake of his atonement and then the end shall come.
Heaven and earth will pass away but his promise to come for us will not.

2Pet 3
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

You accept Jesus gave birth. What is hard about accepting 1000 years of full life on earth without sin? What good is a half way job, or a burned to a crisp job?

timothyu · Jan 13, 2021

Timtofly said:
After 1000 years a perfect earth and kingdom is handed to God

The Kingdom is not here in earth but does come down from Heaven as scripture says. Jesus went to prepare a place for us. Think of Kingdom as meaning rule of a King, the governance of God. Man's governance of self and the world is no more. That 1000 years is basically a final test in a carnal world where man has relinquished control.. No sense chancing it in the new world and ruining it too.

timothyu · Jan 13, 2021

jeffweedaman said:
The moment Man sinned immediately effected the physical condition of the earth.

Yet they were in the Garden at the time but no longer fit in, and sent out of it into a world they would fit into.

BABerean2 · Jan 13, 2021

keras said:
Jesus will Judge the nations at His Return.
This is not the final GWT Judgment of every individual. So Matthew 25:46 does not happen at that time.
We are told when it does. Revelation 20:11-15

Can you accept correction? Do you 'search the scriptures, as your name implies? Or are you so intransigent that any change to your beliefs is impossible.

BTW, I have yet to see anyone here seriously address the OP. Why not?

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

.

BABerean2 · Jan 13, 2021

Timtofly said:
You are the one who defines the sheep without a genealogy and among all the nations.

That would be the Apostle Paul.

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

.

BABerean2 · Jan 13, 2021

Timtofly said:
What is hard about accepting 1000 years of full life on earth without sin? What good is a half way job, or a burned to a crisp job?

Most Premill promoters say mortals will live to extreme age, but some will still die during the Millennium.
Unless the curse is removed, sin will continue.

When does Christ restore all things as they were before the fall?

Act 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
Act 3:20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,
Act 3:21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

.

Hawkins · Jan 13, 2021

keras said:
That we Christians are the spiritual Temple of God now, does not preclude a new Temple being built in the end times. As 2 Thess 2:4 proves.

More likely it's talking about something exalted by Christians and even our churches. From what I speculate, it's already on its way and is now happening as we speak.

Currently it is in a form of political leaders (not limited to the US but nations of this whole world). People serve them even more than serving God. The severity will increase if this situation is not limited to people including Christians but also as a stance of our churches. We know with consent that politics itself is full of lies and liars. We (some of us) however choose to serve politics as a loyalist even more than how we serve God. This is a result (one of the results) caused by the sneaky lawless one (I believe that he's at large now as prophesied).

keras · Jan 13, 2021

Hawkins said:
More likely it's talking about something exalted by Christians and even our churches. From what I speculate, it's already on its way and is now happening as we speak.

The prophesies make it quite clear; there will be a new Temple during the last few years of this Christian age.
Many scriptures describe its existence and how it will be used. Ezekiel 40 to 46 detail the construction and functions of the new Temple in Jerusalem, built by the faithful people of God from every race, nation and language, as Revelation 7:9-14 and Isaiah 66:18-21 tell us.
In both those prophesies and elsewhere, it is shown those people will gather into the holy Land AFTER the Lord has cleared and cleansed all of that area. Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-17

Also 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 is a prophecy about that terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath and how after it He will be revealed to His own, as He stands on Mount Zion, Revelation 14:1-7, selecting the 144,000 missionaries, who will go to the nations and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus.

Hawkins · Jan 13, 2021

keras said:
The prophesies make it quite clear; there will be a new Temple during the last few years of this Christian age.
Many scriptures describe its existence and how it will be used. Ezekiel 40 to 46 detail the construction and functions of the new Temple in Jerusalem, built by the faithful people of God from every race, nation and language, as Revelation 7:9-14 and Isaiah 66:18-21 tell us.
In both those prophesies and elsewhere, it is shown those people will gather into the holy Land AFTER the Lord has cleared and cleansed all of that area. Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-17

Also 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 is a prophecy about that terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath and how after it He will be revealed to His own, as He stands on Mount Zion, Revelation 14:1-7, selecting the 144,000 missionaries, who will go to the nations and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus.

Mostly Jesus said about the same as, the abomination causing desolation. This is never about a new temple is built. It is all about how the Temple is infected by an abomination. It is the destruction of the Jewish Temple (mostly about the destruction of the Second Temple in AD 70). When this re-applies to the end of days, it's not about the building of a temple, it is about the destruction of our Church in a spiritual sense.

Spiritual Jew · Jan 13, 2021

keras said:
Jesus will Judge the nations at His Return.
This is not the final GWT Judgment of every individual. So Matthew 25:46 does not happen at that time.
We are told when it does. Revelation 20:11-15

Can you accept correction? Do you 'search the scriptures, as your name implies? Or are you so intransigent that any change to your beliefs is impossible.

You are the one who needs to be corrected. Scripture teaches one judgment day and you believe in two. Why are you contradicting what it says here:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

God has set one judgment day when "all people everywhere"/"the world"/"everyone" will be judged. That day is portrayed in both Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15.

BTW, I have yet to see anyone here seriously address the OP. Why not?

We will be inheriting the eternal new earth. That's what Peter said we are looking forward to (2 Peter 3:13). That will be our holy land. That's all that needs to be said about the OP.

keras · Jan 13, 2021

Hawkins said:
Mostly Jesus said about the same as, the abomination causing desolation. This is never about a new temple is built. It is all about how the Temple is infected by an abomination. It is the destruction of the Jewish Temple (mostly about the destruction of the Second Temple in AD 70). When this re-applies to the end of days, it's not about the building of a temple, it is about the destruction of our Church in a spiritual sense.

So the Church is to be destroyed? I don't think so!
Prophesies like 2 Thess 2:4 and Revelation 11:1 clearly show there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem. Nations will come to it in homage. Zechariah 14:16-21
What is there to for you to object to a new Temple? We build churchs and cathedrals.

Spiritual Jew said:
You are the one who needs to be corrected. Scripture teaches one judgment day and you believe in two. Why are you contradicting what it says here:

No; Matthew 25:31-33 is a separation of the nations, done by Jesus at His Return.
Acts 17:30 refers to the final Judgment of every individual. Revelation 20:11-15

timothyu · Jan 13, 2021

keras said:
clearly show there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem.

The establishment of a nation called Israel in the land of Judah is temple enough.

keras · Jan 13, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
We will be inheriting the eternal new earth. That's what Peter said we are looking forward to (2 Peter 3:13). That will be our holy land. That's all that needs to be said about the OP.

You show a sad ignorance about what God desires and what His prophets said:
Isaiah 66:5-6 Hear the Word of the Lord, you who revere His Name and keep His commandments. Those scoffers who say: Where is the Lord? When will your so-called God do anything? They will be shocked, for with a great noise His retribution will fall upon them. 2 Peter 3:3-10

Isaiah 63:18 Why have ungodly people trespassed on Your holy place? Why do enemies trample the holy Land? Psalms 37:10-11, Jeremiah 6:12

Jeremiah 12:8-17 Is this Land of Mine a hyena’s lair? The birds of prey and the wild beasts have taken My holy Land over, they ravage it and trample it down, making it a desolation, to My sorrow. The Lord says: I shall uproot all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that I allotted to My people. Judah too, I shall uproot, but if any of them learn the right ways of My people, then they can join and live again in the holy Land. My sword of punishment will devour the Land from end to end, no living thing will remain there. Hosea 4:3, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 6:11-13

Psalms 7:12-16 The enemy prepares his weapons again, but it is against himself that he has made ready his deadly shafts, tipped with fire. They are all in collusion with iniquity and sinfulness, their plans for violence and terror will fall upon their own heads. Joel 3:4

Psalms 68:1-3 May God arise and His enemies be scattered. He will disperse them like smoke. His fire will melt them like wax and they will perish in the heat of His wrath, but the righteous will be joyful, as they exult in the triumph of their God.

Isaiah 29:5-6 Suddenly, all in an instant, punishment will come from God Almighty with thunder, earthquakes and a great noise, with storm tempest and flames of devouring fire. The horde of your enemies will crumble into dust, that multitude of ruthless foes will scatter like chaff. Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 24, Joel 2:30-31, 1 Thessalonians 5:3, Revelation 6:12-17, +

Micah 5:7-15 All the remnant of the descendants of Jacob, now dispersed among the nations, will become like dew from the Lord, they will look only to Him who saves them. Their enemy’s will be destroyed, but on that Day their military power will be lost, all the occult followers will die and any things of idol worship will be gone. Amos 9:10 In anger and fury the Lord will wreak vengeance on all the peoples who disobey Him. Isaiah 66:15-17

Zechariah 8:11-13 The Lord says: I do not feel the same now toward the remnant of My people, as I did in former days. Hosea 11:8-11 Now I shall save you and bless you, you will work the Land in safety, the sky will give rain and the soil will yield abundant produce. Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:23-27, Amos 9:13-15, Jer. 30:18-22
Ref: REB abridged and paraphrased.

Birds of prey and wild beasts have taken over My Land… and the evil neighbours… These are metaphors for the ungodly peoples who are now living in the holy Land.

The enemies deadly shafts, tipped with fire – an ancient description for a modern weapon: a nuke tipped missile. It is against themselves they have prepared their weapons and they will fall onto their own heads. Psalms 64:1-10, Habakkuk 3:3-14

All the weapons ready to fire at Israel will explode on the launch pad or in their bunkers. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come in the heat of the Lord’s wrath, causing earthquakes with flames of fire that will burn His enemies to ashes. As described here and throughout the Bible, this will be a Coronal Mass Ejection, a huge unprecedented explosion of the suns surface, that will fulfill all the graphic prophecies about the Lord’s judgement by fire. Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4:1 & 3

But the punishment by exile of the Lord’s people, who are now every faithful Christian, will be completed and the Lord will save and bless them. They will go to their inheritance, all that area promised to Abraham, cleansed from end to end by this terrible devastation by fire.

Many prophecies tell about the great second Exodus of the Christian Israelites to the holy Land, where they will work the Land in safety, being a light to the nations, Matthew 5:14-16, all as originally meant for them. Isaiah 49:3-8
They will send out 144,000 missionaries to tell the world the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 7:1-8 & 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:18b-21

timothyu · Jan 13, 2021

That is what happens when the Gospel of the Kingdom is ignored. People assume it is all about us.

keras · Jan 13, 2021

timothyu said:
That is what happens when the Gospel of the Kingdom is ignored. People assume it is all about us.

Do you as well, reject what the Prophets said?
We Christians are the members of the Spiritual Kingdom now, which will become a physical Kingdom when King Jesus Returns.
But we cannot ignore what the Bible tells us must happen before that glorious time.

timothyu · Jan 13, 2021

This earth is finished in more ways than one. Jesus comes back to tie up a few loose ends and test the final beta product one last time (which shows we get to retain choice and not become domesticated pets). The second Eden could fail also. A new one is in order that doesn't run on the concept of opposites. I'm looking forward to God's governance not in earth. Wouldn't be any sense in transformation otherwise.

Besides, as I said it is not about us. It is about God living among us once again. It is all about Him and His will being done, not ours.

Timtofly · Jan 13, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Most Premill promoters say mortals will live to extreme age, but some will still die during the Millennium.
Unless the curse is removed, sin will continue.

When does Christ restore all things as they were before the fall?

Act 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
Act 3:20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,
Act 3:21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

.

The 7th Trumpet.

Who are the rightful occupier's of the holy Land?

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