Confusion around the word "will"

Dave L said:

Hebrews 6 says it's an unforgivable sin without repentance. John says
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

So it's merely a warning.

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BNR32FAN said:

Again your contradicting what Paul actually said. Your either trying to imply that these people were never joined to Christ to begin with when Paul clearly says they were or your trying to imply that they were not actually severed from Christ and fallen from grace which again Paul said they were. So in either case that is contradictory to what Paul actually said.

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BNR32FAN said:

Your defense seems to be that Paul didn’t really mean what he actually wrote. I would remind you that these are inspired writings from God not mere letters written on a whim.

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Dave L said:

God warns us to toe the mark. Those who do are born again. Those who do not are lost.

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BNR32FAN said:

Anyone who is in Christ is born again. A person cannot be in Christ without being born again.

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Dave L said:

This is why all the born-again Galatians remained true.

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BNR32FAN said:

Then your saying that those who were severed from Christ were never joined to Christ to begin with. You can’t be severed from Christ if you were never joined to Him. You can’t cut something off that was never attached.

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Dave L said:

Paul doesn't say this. He says "fallen from Grace". You cannot fall from God's grace if you are saved. But you can fall from the concept of grace through false teaching.

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zoidar said:

There are at least three different ways to understand Eph 1:4-5. Even if your understanding of Eph 1:4-5 is correct, it doesn't prove your view of "God's almightiness".

I believe: God is almighty in the sense that He has power to control everything. He also has the power to allow things to happen, to leave it outside His active control. He can control everything, but chooses to not control everything, even so He uses the things He choose to not control for a bigger purpose. God doesn't need to control every thought or choice for His purpose and plan to be fulfilled. God's ways are bigger than that. I don't know if this makes any sense to you?

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BNR32FAN said:

Have you ever read John 15:2 or John 15:6? Or how about Galatians 5:4? Or maybe Romans 2:3-11? Then there’s also Revelation 2:20-21. All of these refute Calvin’s doctrines.

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zoidar said:

There are at least three different ways to understand Eph 1:4-5. Even if your understanding of Eph 1:4-5 is correct, it doesn't prove your view of "God's almightiness".

I believe: God is almighty in the sense that He has power to control everything. He also has the power to allow things to happen, to leave it outside His active control. He can control everything, but chooses to not control everything, even so He uses the things He chooses to not control for a bigger purpose. God doesn't need to control every thought or choice for His purpose and plan to be fulfilled. God's ways are bigger than that. I don't know if this makes any sense to you?

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BNR32FAN said:

Paul doesn’t say you have been severed from Christ? Ok I see the problem here. Your using the KJV which does not accurately translate this verse. I’m not surprised at all because the KJV is catered to support reformed theology, so it’s no wonder why they didn’t want to translate this verse correctly.


“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Galatians 5:4

4 κατηργήθητε (severed) G2673 V-AIP-2P ἀπὸ (you) G575 Prep Χριστοῦ (Christ) G5547 N-GMS οἵτινες (who) G3748 RelPro-NMP ἐν (by) G1722 Prep νόμῳ (law) G3551 N-DMS δικαιοῦσθε (justified) G1344 V-PIM/P-2P τῆς (the) G3588 Art-GFS χάριτος (grace) G5485 N-GFS ἐξεπέσατε (fallen) G1601 V-AIA-2P

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Dave L said:

Scripture does not allow for born again (saved) people to lose their salvation.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” 1 John 5:4 (KJV 1900)

“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” 1 John 5:18 (KJV 1900)

“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” John 10:28 (KJV 1900)

“My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.” John 10:29 (KJV 1900)

How can you have saving faith if you think you can be lost?

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zoidar said:

I agree that God is not the author of confusion, we are. Only one interpretation is fully correct. The problem lies in knowing which one it is. That is why we have this discussion to begin with. How do we know what for an example Eph 1:4-5 really says? Here are a few ways to approach that:

1. Get to know Paul. Learn about Paul, who he was, what was his drive, his way of writing etc.

2. Read many chapters, and whole passages, don't try to find meaning to a few verses here and there without the bigger context.

3. Get to know the situation in the church that Paul is writing to. What is the purpose for each letter? What's its main points? What is it that needs to cleared up?

4. Use translation tools and compare different translations or even better, learn NT Greek.

5. Learn about the thinking of that time and place, it's culture

6. Read and learn about the earliest Church Fathers, how did they understand the scripture?

7. Get to know all Paul's letters and compare and use them to complement each other.

8. Get to know the gospels and get to know Jesus, find out how Paul's writings fit Jesus' teachings.

9. Read having your personal revelation of Jesus by the Holy Spirit in the back of your head.

10. Try to read what it really says without the lens of a doctrine.

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BNR32FAN said:

Where do the scriptures say that a person can’t lose faith? NOBODY CAN POSSIBLY BE IN CHRIST WITHOUT A SAVING FAITH. False professors are NOT in Christ. Jesus says to false professors “I NEVER knew you”. Look at Luke 13:6-9

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Look! For three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, leave it alone for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Pay close attention to verse 9. Jesus will give the tree special attention and still the outcome of the tree is uncertain. It is not certain whether or not the tree will bear fruit or if it will be cut down. There is no guarantee of salvation anywhere in the scriptures until you’ve finished the race.

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BNR32FAN said:

Where do the scriptures say that a person can’t lose faith? NOBODY CAN POSSIBLY BE IN CHRIST WITHOUT A SAVING FAITH. False professors are NOT in Christ. Jesus says to false professors “I NEVER knew you”. Look at Luke 13:6-9

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Look! For three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, leave it alone for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Pay close attention to verse 9. Jesus will give the tree special attention and still the outcome of the tree is uncertain. It is not certain whether or not the tree will bear fruit or if it will be cut down. There is no guarantee of salvation anywhere in the scriptures until you’ve finished the race.

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Dave L said:

The New Birth is salvation. Faith follows it. You can lose faith through various trials or exposure to false teachers. But it always returns in truth. Flesh faith cannot save and people often lose this. Those who keep it worship a false Christ, Islam, and Christian cults, etc.

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