Does faith justify? (I have an answer, but would like input.

Bible Highlighter said:

Ezekiel 18:24 may shed possible light on Jesus's words when He says, "I never knew you." in Matthew 7:23.

Ezekiel 18:24 says that if a righteous person does iniquity (sin), all their previous righteousness will not be remembered. Seeing God associates with the righteous, he will no longer remember them anymore. It will be as if He... never knew them. For there is nothing to remember because no previous righteousness exists anymore.

It is worth taking note that the reason why Jesus told them to depart from Him was not because they did many wonderful works, but it was because they worked iniquity (sin).

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23).

Even if Ezekiel 18:24 was not a proper explanation on Matthew 7:23, this does not mean that the Bible does not teach elsewhere that a believer cannot be condemned by sin. See...

Matthew 5:28-30
Matthew 6:15
Matthew 12:37
Matthew 25:31-46
Luke 9:62
Luke 10:25-28 cf. John 14:15, and 1 Corinthians 16:22​

In fact, we know that Adam committed one sin that led to the fall of all of mankind. His one sin had a hugely bad impact. Adam was told that he would die that day he sinned. But he did not die physically, but he died spiritually. This means Adam needed to get his heart right with God in order to have spiritual life again. We also learn that Ananias and Sapphira each committed the sin of lying to God and a great fear came upon the church and all who heard of it. This means that they died spiritually for committing a one time sin. For the emotion of fear only makes sense to believers if they know that they could also potentially commit a serious sin that could condemn them, too. For Paul says to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Jesus said fear not the one who can kill the body, but fear the One who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna (i.e. the Lake of Fire). So believers are taught not to fear death.

In Matthew 7:23, I believe these are believers but they believed in a wrong version of Jesus in that they thought they could sin and still be saved. Whether they always believed that way is unclear.

But they cast out demons in His name. This means they believed in Jesus. It is just not the same Jesus as described in the Bible. Yes, sure, they may even say they followed the Bible, but I believe they twisted and distorted Scripture to justify sin and evil (on some level) thereby creating their own version of Jesus (Whereby the real Christ did not know them).

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Jesus says "I never knew you" because they were calling Him "Lord Lord" as if He was their lord when He never was. The had just been using His name in vain.

Bible Highlighter said:

First, one cannot fall away from the core principle doctrines of Christ and lay again the foundation of repentance and of faith towards God. Meaning, we cannot reject the foundational principle of believing in Jesus as our Savior by faith. For we cannot fall away from Christ by rejecting Him (i.e. Apostasy), and expect to repent again. It is not possible if such a believer has previously been enlightened, has tasted of the heavenly gift, they were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and tasted of the good word of God, the powers of the world to come. For they would be crucifying to themselves the Son of God again, and putting Him to an open shame.

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:1-6).​

Second, in the “Parable of the Prodigal Son” there is no indication that the son was rejecting his father. There is nothing in the parable that says, “and the son rejected his father and wanted nothing to do with him anymore;” The son merely squandered his inheritance on living a lifestyle of sin. According to Luke 15:30 we learn that the prodigal son spent his inheritance on living with prostitutes. For the prodigal son's brother said to the father, “But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.” (Luke 15:30). This is the reason why he was “dead.”

Three, this same truth is told to us James 5:19-20.

“Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” (James 5:19-20).​

Meaning, if any one of us believers errs (goes away) from the truth (i.e. Jesus's good ways), and one of us believers converts this sinning believer from the error of his ways (by getting them to confess of their sins to Jesus), we should know that we have helped to save this soul (believer) from death, and we have helped to hide a multitude of of their sins (by pointing them to Jesus and His Word). Notice carefully in verse 20 the part that says, “which coverteth the sinner from the error of his way”; We are told that if they were to err in this way and we convert them back, we should know that we have helped to save a soul from death (spiritual death), and we have helped to hide a multitude of their sins (no doubt by getting them to confess of their sins to Jesus Christ). For we learn in Psalms 51 about how king David sought forgiveness with the Lord in order to be forgiven of sin (See: Psalms 51:1-2, Psalms 51:7, and Psalms 51:9). To be forgiven of sin is dealing with salvation. “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;” (Ephesians 1:7).

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As far as Hebrews 6:4-6 goes, it's been interpreted as being addressed specifically to converted Jews because they're the ones who had Christ crucified the first time, so they would be crucifying Him a second time "they crucify again for themselves the Son of God" (there's that word "again" again).

Now the thing with your loss of salvation everytime a mortal sin is committed and coming back to salvation after confession scenario, is that would amount to Christ being crucified again and again and again...

In Matthew 19:24 Jesus says, "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." A camel going through the eye of a needle is impossible.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Also in Romans 11:16-24 Paul speaks about the branch being grafted back into the vine.

And as you pointed out. James 5:19 says "My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

Plus there's the simple fact that many apostates have come back to the faith.

Bible Highlighter said:

You use the word “absolution” which sounds like confessing sins to a priest within Catholicism. As I said, I do not agree with Catholicism or Orthodox churches (or anything even remotely like that all). I believe in Sola Scriptura in that the Bible alone is our sole authority on all matters of faith and practice. Traditions of men cannot be added to God's Word. There is nothing in NT Scripture about how we need to confess of our sins to a priest so as to be forgiven of our sins. Believers are to go directly to Jesus Christ as their advocate (1 John 2:1), and confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven (1 John 1:9). For Jesus is the only mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5). But, yes; We need to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). I never said otherwise. We need to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Just paying empty lip service to Jesus with no real change in a person's life will not save anyone. Jesus says: Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 7:21).

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I used the word absolution along with the analogy of a Catholic priest who molests choir boys over and over, because they believe every time they do it, all they have to do is go to confession and have another priest absolve them, so they can start over with a clean slate. While you say you don't agree with Catholicism, your mortal sin = loss of salvation but confession = re-salvation (absolution) is lifted right out of Catholicism, except that you're eliminating a third party intercessor.

I'm running outta time so I'll get to the rest laters.

Bible Highlighter said:

And it has nothing to do with what I believe and or stated. It's totally unrelated to what the Bible says that I believe. I told you before, I don't believe in Catholicism, and so please stop acting like I do.

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Nevertheless you're employing scenario that's pretty much only found in Catholic doctrine.

klutedavid said:

Obedience to the law for example, would be

the Sabbath observance. Any Sabbath observance is always an obvious and outward, work of the law. The law requires your effort, your work, and that is in every line of the law.

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse.

You could equally say.

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on an obedience to the law are under a curse.

Both verses are identical.

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Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law, such as the Law of God, works of the law, and the law of sin, so if you assume that Paul only spoke about the Law of God, then you are guaranteed to misinterpret what he said. For example, in Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law that is of works with a law that is of faith and said that our faith upholds the Law of God, so that is the law of faith and can't be the same as the law that is not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12. In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God and served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive. Just because Paul used the phrase "works of the law" does not mean that you are free to insert whatever works that you want him to be referring to while disregarding how he used the phrase.

All who obey the law, i.e., practice the law, honor the Sabbath, are under a curse.

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Does it even make sense to you for someone to think that God will curse anyone who tries to obey Him, so He doesn't want to be obeyed and He can't be trusted to guide us in how to rightly live, so we are better off avoiding being cursed by Him by living in complete disobedience to Him and refusing to repent? Was God looking for ways to justify cursing His children, so He gave us His law?

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Jesus began his ministry with that message, so it is absurd to think that Jesus wanted His people to do that so that so that we would be cursed. In Deuteronomy 30:15-20, obedience to the Mosaic Law brings life and a blessing while it is disobedience that brings death and curse, and this is said repeatedly through out the OT. In Isaiah 56:2, it specifically says that those who keep the Sabbath are blessed and nowhere does it say that we are under a curse if we keep the Sabbath or God's other laws. In Galatians 3:10-12, they are under a curse for not obeying God's law, not for obeying it.

The purpose of the law is a light for your soul, in that it only grants the knowledge of sin. And the need for your salvation from that sin.

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If you agree that Gods law gives us knowledge of sin and that we should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey God's law. Our salvation is from sin, so living in obedience to God's law is what Jesus saving us from living in disobedience to God's law looks like. It is contradictory for someone to think that they need salvation from living in disobedience to God's law while thinking that they aren't obligated to live in obedience to it.

The law never grants any righteousness, or life, or anything else of benefit.

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So do you deny that all of the verses that say that we will be blessed and attain life if we obey God's law are true?

Galatians 3:5
So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

OR BY HEARING WITH FAITH

Hearing and not working by faith.

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Hearing by faith is expressed by obedience. In Hebrews 4:2 and 4:6, the heard the good news and the word perched to them that called them to obedience, but they did not mix what they heard with faith, so they failed to enter into God's rest because of their disobedience, in 4:7, if we hear his voice, then do not harden our hearts, and in 4:11, we should strive to enter that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience.

Bible Highlighter said:

False accusation. I don't believe in confessing sins to a priest and I don't approve of any abuse in the Catholic church. I am strongly against the beliefs of the Catholic church. I said I believe we must confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy according to Proverbs 28:13. This confessing of sin (which includes
forsaking sin) is to Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, 1 Timothy 2:5). So what you said has nothing to do with what I said. You are just trying to sling mud with no real connection here.

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You've been saying that each time a saved person commits a mortal sin, they have lost their salvation, and will go to hell, until they confess their mortal sin. I asked you if a saved person tells a lie or steals a paperclip and gets hit by a bus before he can confess it, he's going to hell, and you said yes that's how salvation works. I don't know of any theology other than Catholicism which teaches that. The only difference to what you're saying that I can see, is you're leaving out a third party intercessor ie a priest.

Bible Highlighter said:

Does faith justify?
(Note: I am not asking because I don't know the answer).

Some say that faith does not justify.

However, Scripture says we a man is justified by faith.

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
(Romans 3:28).

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”
(Romans 5:1).

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” (Galatians 2:16).

“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.” (Galatians 3:24).

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Given that man is so utterly depraved and cannot, and will not choose God, therefore faith itself is a gift from God, man cannot save himself and is in need of a saviour, faith in Jesus and the work of the cross makes this possible, justifying a man before God not of his own works, but those of of Jesus, therefore as faith and salvation are mutually entwined, a man is justified through faith.

Bible Highlighter said:

So was George Sodini saved?
Are those believers who committed suciide saved?
Was king David saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
If so, then you are teaching that we can do these sins and still be saved.
Again, I do not believe in the Catholic church, so you can stop it already.
You are not God to know all things and to know what everyone believes.
Your life experience does not determine what God's Word says or teaches.
God's Word is what should transform the faithful believer by the power of the working of God within them. I look to Scripture and not the Catholic church to build my faith. I argued against Catholicism as a child long before I became born again. So you can give it a rest already. The Bible is the sole authority for man in building their faith. We look to Jesus as our Heavenly High priest alone. For 1 Timothy 2:5 says he is our one medatior (implying He is our one and only mediator).

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You're right, I'm not God, so why ask me who is saved or not?

I don't know, and neither do you.

Your life experience does not determine what God's Word says or teaches.

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Ditto.

Bible Highlighter said:

The Bible tells me who is saved or not by the kind of faith that they have.
Proverbs 14:12 says, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” So if we think or act outside of God's Word, then it will lead to death. For whatever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Most today are not hearing the Word of God because we are in the last days where many have a form of godliness but they deny the power thereof (See: 2 Timothy 3:1-9). What power are they denying? I believe it is the power to overcome grievous sin in this life by the power of God working in them (See: Philippians 2:13, John 15:5, Romans 8:13).

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I asked you to name anyone else who shares your interpretation of the Bible, and you couldn't name any, and you also indicated there are none. Therefore it's a forgone conclusion that most likely your interpretation is incorrect.