Doctrine Of Granted Authority

Mr. M · Jan 11, 2021

Foreshadowing in Genesis
Genesis 41:
39 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, Inasmuch as God has shown you all this, there is
no one as discerning and wise as you.
40 You shall be over my house, and all my people shall be ruled according to your
word; only in regard to the throne will I be greater than you.
Honor Joseph To Honor Pharaoh

Doctrine Of Christ
John 5:
19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son
can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does,
the Son also does in like manner.
20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does;
and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives
life to whom He will.
22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not
honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Honor The Son To Honor The Father

2 John 1:9 Whoever moves forward and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ
does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father
and the Son.

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

To walk as He walked is to receive granted authority, until the end of the age

1 Corinthians 15:
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father,
when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
27 For He has put all things under His feet. But when He says all things are
put under Him, it is evident that He who put all things under Him is exempted.
28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also
be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all, in all.

Jeshu · Jan 11, 2021

To abide in Christ is to remain loving to all those around also those who have fallen low, and to lay down our lives for our friends.

If faith, love and hope remain let it be love that is the greatest.

CaspianSails · Jan 11, 2021

It seems a leap to assert granted authority based on the verses used. They do not speak of authority. It speaks to how one should live.

Mr. M · Jan 11, 2021

CaspianSails said:
It seems a leap to assert granted authority based on the verses used. They do not speak of authority. It speaks to how one should live.

John 14:
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me,
Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you
I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

The word 'authority does not appear in this passage.
Does that make it off topic, or is The Son acknowledging the authority of The Father?

Carl Emerson · Jan 11, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
To walk as He walked is to receive granted authority, until the end of the age

If this means having the power to act without the consent of the Father, then I have a problem with that...

What exactly is meant by 'Granted authority'

Did Jesus have granted authority when He waited to see what the Father was doing?

Mr. M · Jan 11, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Did Jesus have granted authority when He waited to see what the Father was doing?

Jesus acknowledged The Father's authority by waiting to see what the Father was doing. This is
what John is saying here

Minister Monardo said:
2 John 1:9 Whoever moves forward and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

Granted authority is received with the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Jeshu · Jan 11, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Did Jesus have granted authority when He waited to see what the Father was doing?

i think because Jesus waited for The Father to reveal His will Jesus had the authority He had. It is with us like that as well. If the Father reveals His will to us then that gives us authority on these matters.

For otherwise why would Jesus say;

Revelation 2:26-27 "To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father."

CaspianSails · Jan 11, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
John 14:
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me,
Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you
I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

The word 'authority does not appear in this passage.
Does that make it off topic, or is The Son acknowledging the authority of The Father?

But we know Christ had authority as it is clearly stated and there is no need to infer it. Math 28 makes it quite clear. While Christ lived, prior to the resurrection He states that he only does what the father instructs him do. He is subject to the will if him who sent Him.

Mr. M · Jan 11, 2021

CaspianSails said:
While Christ lived, prior to the resurrection He states that he only does what the father instructs him do. He is subject to the will if him who sent Him.

As we are expected to do by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Mr. M · Jan 11, 2021

CaspianSails said:
But we know Christ had authority as it is clearly stated and there is no need to infer it

Christ states it here, which was quoted in the OP. There is no inferences made.
John 5:
19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son
can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does,
the Son also does in like manner.

This is acknowledging His granted authority.
We can do the same by this word.
Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.

Mr. M · Jan 11, 2021

Jeshu said:
i think because Jesus waited for The Father to reveal His will Jesus had the authority He had. It is with us like that as well. If the Father reveals His will to us then that gives us authority on these matters.

For otherwise why would Jesus say;

Revelation 2:26-27 "To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father."

In all three of these verses, the word authority does not appear, but the NKJV inserts and italicized.
They do infer The Son acknowledges the authority of The Father.

John 7:17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is
from God or whether I speak on My own authority.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave
Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.

John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I
speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

Mr. M · Jan 11, 2021

CaspianSails said:
It seems a leap to assert granted authority based on the verses used. They do not speak of authority. It speaks to how one should live.

We should live under the authority of the Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Mr. M · Jan 11, 2021

Jeshu said:
i think because Jesus waited for The Father to reveal His will Jesus had the authority He had. It is with us like that as well. If the Father reveals His will to us then that gives us authority on these matters.

For otherwise why would Jesus say;

Revelation 2:26-27 "To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father."

There is a parallel thread discussing authority in another forum.
By What Authority Do You Speak?

Mr. M · Jan 14, 2021

This is to walk in the Light>
John 12:
44 Then Jesus cried out and said, He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.
46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.

Christ claims the authority granted to Him by His Father

Mr. M · Feb 5, 2021

Paul establishes his granted authority over the church at Corinth
2 Corinthians 10:
8 For even if I should boast somewhat more about our authority, which the Lord gave us
for edification and not for your destruction, I shall not be ashamed—

13 We, however, will not boast beyond measure, but within the limits of the sphere which God appointed us—a sphere which especially includes you.
14 For we are not overextending ourselves. as though our authority did not extend to you, for it
was to you that we came with the gospel of Christ.

Magnanimity · Feb 5, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
Christ states it here, which was quoted in the OP. There is no inferences made.

I'm not entirely certain where you are going with all of this. But, if I'm interpreting you correctly, you're asserting that the Son and the apostles received authority from God the Father. I don't know if you find yourself within an ancient Christian communion, but these types of arguments that you offer have long been used by such Christian communions to support a doctrine known as "apostolic succession."

Early Christian belief in apostolic succession is what allowed for the finalization of a New Testament canon. It's also what supported conciliar decrees and pronouncements regarding Christology (e.g., declaring that Arianism was a heresy). Without such extended authority, it is unclear how the church could be infallible in its orthodoxy and in other matters, like its settling of the New Testament writings.

If you are outside of an ancient Christian communion, then perhaps you are meaning something different by your reasoning toward "granted authority."

Mr. M · Feb 5, 2021

Magnanimity said:
I'm not entirely certain where you are going with all of this.

Minister Monardo said:
We should live under the authority of the Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Minister Monardo said:
2 John 1:9 Whoever moves forward and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ
does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father
and the Son.

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Minister Monardo said:
Christ states it here, which was quoted in the OP. There is no inferences made.
John 5:
19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son
can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does,
the Son also does in like manner.

This is acknowledging His granted authority.
We can do the same by this word.
Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.

Jeshu's post #7 was informative

Minister Monardo said:
John 12:49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave
Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.

Are we able to receive instructions from the Holy Spirit regarding what we should speak?
This is to walk as He walked, under granted authority.

Magnanimity said:
But, if I'm interpreting you correctly, you're asserting that the Son and the apostles received authority from God the Father.

Yes, and the scriptures further assert that authority is granted to believers by abiding in the Holy Spirit.

Magnanimity said:
I don't know if you find yourself within an ancient Christian communion, but these types of arguments that you offer have long been used by such Christian communions to support a doctrine known as "apostolic succession."

I am not supporting any ancient doctrines, just trying to discuss the scriptures posted, as applying
them to ourselves, and the people that we have personal fellowship.

Magnanimity said:
Early Christian belief in apostolic succession is what allowed for the finalization of a New Testament canon. It's also what supported conciliar decrees and pronouncements regarding Christology (e.g., declaring that Arianism was a heresy). Without such extended authority, it is unclear how the church could be infallible in its orthodoxy and in other matters, like its settling of the New Testament writings.

I acknowledge that church leadership must be established as authoritative, for this is ordained
by the testimony of the scriptures.
Paul's letters in particular were establishing doctrine by which a church group in fellowship could be
established in the authority of the Holy Spirit in their meetings, and in determining the Father's
Will for each of them personally. Hopefully I was able to clarify my intent for the topic, and I
appreciate your response.
James

The Liturgist · Feb 5, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
If this means having the power to act without the consent of the Father, then I have a problem with that...

What exactly is meant by 'Granted authority'

Did Jesus have granted authority when He waited to see what the Father was doing?

The Sixth Ecumenical Council established that our Lord has a separate human and divine will, just as he has a human and a divine nature, but the wills are in complete alignment, so the OP’s thesis makes no sense at all, except in the context of the radical Nestorian/borderline adoptionist theology that was discussed in another thread.

Mr. M · Feb 5, 2021

The Liturgist said:
The Sixth Ecumenical Council established that our Lord has a separate human and divine will, just as he has a human and a divine nature, but the wills are in complete alignment, so the OP’s thesis makes no sense at all, except in the context of the radical Nestorian/borderline adoptionist theology that was discussed in another thread.

Maybe take a second look. I am not trying to clash with the 6TH EC, or discuss the decrees or
determinations they provided, in this thread. If you understood the full extent of Post#1,
You would see the irony of saying

The Liturgist said:
the OP’s thesis makes no sense at all

Even as you teach on:

The Liturgist said:
The Sixth Ecumenical Council

Why would you care about an Ecumenical Council, unless you accepted the granted authority
of the body of participants. If their determinations are authoritative, who granted that authority?
Being wise to know that men often seize power, and claim "God Wills It". Regardless, the comment
is, to sound like a broken record, off-topic. You not only seem to indicate an unfamiliarity with post#1,
but also #15, which gives another example of granted authority, which also indicates that authority
can be geographical, as well as spiritual, and a very interesting and on topic narrative from Paul.
2 Corinthians 10

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