Who are the rightful occupier's of the holy Land?

jeffweedaman

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I view the off topic posts here, as a deliberate attempt to bury the idea that the holy Land is our destination and our heritage.

I did go off topic a little because i thought it important to address those posts that have now been removed.

The idea that the Holy land is our destination and heritage can only be realized on a restored earth..., as Jesus remains in heaven until the restoration of ALL things.


Act 3
19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things, about which God spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from ancient times.
 
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Timtofly

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Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].
Josephus said this happened 408 years after Daniel. If there was still 167 years until the first Advent, that would be 575 years. That would make 490 years not even last until Christ.

Can you explain which decree Daniel was talking about? I think that there is a reason that 7 weeks is split off from the 62 weeks. There has to be a gap between the 7 and 62 weeks. Nehemiah built the wall in 52 days in 445 BC. The Great Assembly was in 410 BC. 62 weeks is 434 years. If you subtract 30 years from 434 you get 404 BC. If you subtract 27 years to the baptism of Jesus, it is closer at 407 BC. One is still short. The decree to rebuild was even further away than 49 years (7 weeks). The Temple was built in 516 BC, after the decree around 539 BC. How can any say there is a continuous 490 year period? From 539 BC to 33 AD is 572 years.
 
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Timtofly

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I did go off topic a little because i thought it important to address those posts that have now been removed.

The idea that the Holy land is our destination and heritage can only be realized on a restored earth..., as Jesus remains in heaven until the restoration of ALL things.


Act 3
19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things, about which God spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from ancient times.
There is a period of restoration. Jesus Christ will be on earth during that period, and that period is 1000 years. Until that period Christ is in heaven. The period of restoration cannot even be now. The period can only begin, that is start, until after the Second Coming.

How can any claim restoration is going on now? The Atonement is what is happening now. The restoration is still future.

Your verses refute that Jesus waits in heaven until the restoration of all things is finished. It does not say until restoration is finished. It says until the period of restoration comes. Jesus waits in heaven not for the restoration to finish, but waits until the time of restoration comes. Then Christ will fulfill this period of restoration Himself while on the earth.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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There is a period of restoration. Jesus Christ will be on earth during that period, and that period is 1000 years. Until that period Christ is in heaven. The period of restoration cannot even be now. The period can only begin, that is start, until after the Second Coming.

How can any claim restoration is going on now? The Atonement is what is happening now. The restoration is still future.

Your verses refute that Jesus waits in heaven until the restoration of all things is finished. It does not say until restoration is finished. It says until the period of restoration comes. Jesus waits in heaven not for the restoration to finish, but waits until the time of restoration comes. Then Christ will fulfill this period of restoration Himself while on the earth.
What would be the point of that time of restoration when it would result in a number of people as the sand of the sea rebelling against Christ (Rev 20:7-9)?
 
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jeffweedaman

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There is a period of restoration. Jesus Christ will be on earth during that period, and that period is 1000 years.

Lol
I knew somebody would say that .

The Ministry of reconciliation ( restoration ) is already in effect.
Its given to you and me and everyone else here.


2Cor
16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one by the flesh; even though we have known Christ by the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.



Today is the day of salvation.

Gods patience with the world only extends to the second coming when the door is shut.


It is by Faith in the truth and sanctification by his Spirit , that one has salvation.


2Thess 2
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Restoration of all things happens the moment Jesus appears to perfect / restore us.
The moment Adam sinned tainted all things. Didnt take a thousand years either way.
 
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BABerean2

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Josephus said this happened 408 years after Daniel. If there was still 167 years until the first Advent, that would be 575 years. That would make 490 years not even last until Christ.

Can you explain which decree Daniel was talking about? I think that there is a reason that 7 weeks is split off from the 62 weeks. There has to be a gap between the 7 and 62 weeks. Nehemiah built the wall in 52 days in 445 BC. The Great Assembly was in 410 BC. 62 weeks is 434 years. If you subtract 30 years from 434 you get 404 BC. If you subtract 27 years to the baptism of Jesus, it is closer at 407 BC. One is still short. The decree to rebuild was even further away than 49 years (7 weeks). The Temple was built in 516 BC, after the decree around 539 BC. How can any say there is a continuous 490 year period? From 539 BC to 33 AD is 572 years.


Josephus said the prophecy of Daniel 7 came to pass 408 years after it was given to Daniel.

The 490 years of Daniel 9 began during 457 BC, based on my understanding.


.
 
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keras

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The idea that the Holy land is our destination and heritage can only be realized on a restored earth..., as Jesus remains in heaven until the restoration of ALL things.
That will happen. Deuteronomy 32:34-43 says the Lord will clear and cleanse His Land and prophecies like Amos 9:13-15, Isaiah 35:1-10, +, tell how He will regenerate the Land.
Jesus will Return after all His enemies are made His footstool. In other words; killed during the Great Trib and at Armageddon.
What would be the point of that time of restoration when it would result in a number of people as the sand of the sea rebelling against Christ (Rev 20:7-9)?
Everyone has the choice; follow righteousness or evil.
the Millennium will start with only righteous people, but near the end of it Satan will again be allowed to deceive people and that will be the final test.
Why do you even ask such questions? It seems you object to most of what God has planned.
 
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BABerean2

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the Millennium will start with 100 righteous people, but near the end of it Satan will again be allowed to deceive people and that will be the final test.
Why do you even ask such questions? It seems you object to most of what God has planned.


Where do you get your claim of 100 people?

The following proves the Premill doctrine is based on a surface level understanding of Revelation chapter 20.

..............................................................................................

Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?

(Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?)

Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed?


Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?


Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10


Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then?


John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?


Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5?
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.


Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?
How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3?


How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?

Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context…


Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?


Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?


What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?


Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55?


Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.
Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31?
What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?


Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?


What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13?


Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?


Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A discussion of the three different Millennial Viewpoints on YouTube:

“An Evening of Eschatology – Premillennialism, Amillennialism, Postmillennialism”


Doctors Jim Hamilton, Sam Storms, Doug Wilson



.
 
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BABerean2

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The land belongs to the "son", who paid for it in blood at Calvary.
See His words below.


Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

.
 
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buzuxi02

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And we Christians as His followers, will live there.
We are there when the AC comes to power, as I proved in the OP.
Speak for yourself. I'll take Hawaii, Japan or if I want to contemplate the ancient history of a bunch of rocks ill stick with my native Greece, plenty of private beaches to relax while doing it.
 
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Everyone has the choice; follow righteousness or evil.
the Millennium will start with 100 righteous people, but near the end of it Satan will again be allowed to deceive people and that will be the final test.
Why do you even ask such questions? It seems you object to most of what God has planned.
I ask those questions to make premils like yourself think about how nonsensical your belief actually is. Do you ever even think about the fact that you believe Jesus will come to the earth in all His glory and usher in a thousand year period of perfect peace on the earth only to somehow have a huge number of people rebel against Him after that? How does that scenario make any sense?

I don't object to anything God has planned. I object to your frequent misinterpretations of His plans.
 
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Hawkins

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God's Holy Land is for God's chosen people. Who's God's chosen people now. It is supposed to be the Jews testifying for Jesus. Their authentication comes from the Temple. The Temple however is gone. So who is the authenticated chosen people now? In a covenantal sense, it's none!

God's arrangement is a Kingdom of God on earth. It is a intangible kingdom formed of Christians. They are testifying for Jesus. This is the Holy Land where they need to endure, as the desolation may in the end come again against this temple of this Holy Land.

Matthew 24:15-16
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
 
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keras

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Where do you get your claim of 100 people?
Device error.
I have corrected it; I meant 'only righteous people'.
As for 'Recapitulation', I reject that theory and have shown it to be wrong before.
The children that God chose from before the foundation of the world. The Holy land belongs to them, and they're a mixture of Jews and Gentiles.
As stated in Revelation 7:9, the people of God come from every race, nation and language and after the Sixth Seal event has cleared all of the holy Land, it is their place.
Speak for yourself. I'll take Hawaii, Japan or if I want to contemplate the ancient history of a bunch of rocks ill stick with my native Greece, plenty of private beaches to relax while doing it.
You have no idea of the glory that awaits those who love the Lord.
The holy Land will become as the garden of Eden; Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:1-24, Isaiah 35 & 66:12-14
I don't object to anything God has planned. I object to your frequent misinterpretations of His plans.
What the Lord has planned is told to us in the Bible. I point it out. You object to it.
Rebellion against God has happened many times. The ancient Israelites did it and it will happen again near the end of the Millennium.
God's arrangement is a Kingdom of God on earth. It is a intangible kingdom formed of Christians. They are testifying for Jesus. This is the Holy Land where they need to endure, as the desolation may in the end come again against this temple of this Holy Land.
That we Christians are the spiritual Temple of God now, does not preclude a new Temple being built in the end times. As 2 Thess 2:4 proves.
Romans 9:24-26 says we Christians will be called the children of the Living God; in the very place that the ancient Israelites were rejected by God. The prophesies in the OP and many others show how the holy Land will be our home.
 
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The holy land we should be looking forward to is what Peter said we should look forward to which is the new earth. That is what we will inherit when Christ returns.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

If your doctrine doesn't agree with what Peter wrote here, then you need to change it. Jesus will come as a thief in the night and will destroy all of His enemies by fire and even the heavens and the earth will be burned up at that time. That is why Peter said "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness".

When Peter references "His promise" he is talking about the promise of Christ's second coming which he earlier said scoffers in the last days would mock (2 Peter 3:3-4). Christ will take vengeance on those scoffers and all of His enemies when He returns in flaming fire with His angels (2 Thess 1:7-10).
 
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2 Corinthians 1:20 "For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God."

Think about that for a minute... every single prophecy is fulfilled in Christ. To Him and Him alone is the inheritance, which He shares with those who are God's people through faith.

None of this concerns a plot of dirt
 
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buzuxi02

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You have no idea of the glory that awaits those who love the Lord.
The holy Land will become as the garden of Eden; Ezekiel 36:
Well that's nice. But for now it's just a crappy desert. Plenty of places I'd rather be than some little dry patch of land where Abraham's cousins are killing themselves for A bunch of infertile soil.
 
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The New Country of Beulah:

Isaiah 62:1-2a For Zion’s sake, I shall not keep silent – until her victory shines forth, like the sunrise, her victory like a blazing torch. The nations will see your victory and their rulers your glory.

Isaiah prophesies for the sake of Zion; the holy Land. There will be a great victory, ‘like a blazing torch’ - a CME sunstrike over the attacking enemies. Isaiah 30:25-30 & 66:15-16, Psalms 11:4-6 The world will see it and be amazed. Jeremiah 33:6-16

Isaiah 62:2b-5 You will receive a new name, the Lord Himself will give it. You will be like a glorious crown in His hand. No more are you forsaken and your Land desolate. You will be called ‘Hephzibah’ and the Land, ‘Beulah’. For the Lord will delight in you and it will be like a marriage: He will rejoice over you as a bridegroom over his bride. ‘Hephzibah’ = My delight is in her. ‘Beulah’ = married. Isaiah 49:18

The Lord’s people, Christian Israelites will be gathered and settled into their heritage, all of the holy Land, in the new nation of Beulah. Wonderful promises to them of fertility and wealth. They will live in justice, peace and security, as He intended people to be.


Isaiah 62:6-7 Jerusalem, on your walls, I have posted watchmen, they will call out: You that invoke the Name of the Lord, do not rest and give no rest to the Lord until He makes Jerusalem a praise throughout the world.

The Hebrew word for ‘watchmen’, is ‘natzar’, the root word for Nazarene; literally all Christian believers. WE must not rest or let the Lord forget His people and His Land. Keep praying for our redemption and restoration. Ezekiel 36:24-28, Isaiah 52:7-9

Isaiah 62:8-9 The Lord has sworn to never again allow foreigners to take the produce of the Land, but you who give praises to Him will eat the grain and drink the wine, within My sacred courts.

After the great clearance in the Middle East, only His righteous people will be allowed to live there, those who love the Lord and obey Him. Isaiah 66:20-21, Ezekiel 20:38

Isaiah 62:10-11 Pass through the gates – clear a road for My people. Build a highway, remove the rocks and make a signal to guide the people. Proclaim to the ends of the earth, say to the offspring of Zion: See your deliverance comes, His reward is with Him and He will make recompense.

The great gathering of the Lord’s people – the second Exodus, will happen in the same manner as the first Exodus. Leaders [shepherds] will arise to guide the flock, in the spirit of Moses and Elijah. Jeremiah 3:14-15, Isaiah 58:11, Isaiah 43:5-7, Micah 4:6, Isaiah 49:9-13, Isaiah 51:3, Zechariah 8:11-12, Isaiah 40:1-5, Ezekiel 11:17

Isaiah 62:12 They will be called ‘The Holy people, the Redeemed of God’ and Jerusalem will be called ‘sought after, the City no longer forsaken’.

The Lord’s faithful Christian people: living in the Holy Land of Beulah, as He created them to live, being a ‘light to the nations’ and witnesses to His salvation. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to every people group, to preach the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Acts 2:39, Jeremiah 31:23-34

Joel 2:23-27 People of Zion, rejoice – your God will recompense you for the years that others have ravaged your Land. You will again have plenty in your own Land. Then you will know that I am present in Israel and that I and no other am your God.
We will know the Lord is present by His deeds. Just as it was at the Exodus. Must be before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.
 
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