"Non-denominational"??? What does that even mean?

bèlla

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I really like your answer here, sister bèlla!

Thank you brother. May the Lord’s love and blessings rest upon the Philo clan in 2021. Glad to have you here. :yellowheart:

The only place that I holdback on agreeing fully with it is in accepting the validity of "non-denominational" as a clear enough marker of meaning to offer and express a Trinitarian faith.

No one has all the answers. We begin as babes. Some may hold trinitarian beliefs and others may not. But it doesn’t matter. He said the end is more important than the beginning.

We must desist in treating our brothers and sisters en route to the finish line as if they’re there. The journey isn’t over! If He can bring us to saving faith He can work out all the kinks.

Sometimes we have to zip our lips and remember Who’s in the drivers seat. He’s got this. The minor things that bother us can be handled in prayer or trust.

We don’t have to trouble our minds about everything. Reverse engineer it. Instead of doubting their position speak life unto them instead. Unleash the words and manifest His will upon the brethren and the lost.

You don’t need to debate or question it. Use your authority. ;)

Yours in His Service,

~bella
 
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Greengardener

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I started paying attention in the 70's to the types of Christian churches. Back in the day, there were your regular denominations (those who had settled statements of faith, like Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans) and then there were the others. Some liked the label "interdenominational," which meant that they wanted you to feel welcome coming among them from any of the usual denominations. Others liked the "non-denominational" label which was welcoming to folk who had not previously been labeled with a denominational name. Pentecostal was either a denomination or nearly so back then in my area, so "Charismatic" was added to those lively worship services whether they were non-denominational or inter-denominational. I didn't know any who were not Trinitarian. There were different business models, so to speak, like some had pastors as the lead authority and others had a Board of Elders who voted on whether the pastor continued or was replaced. But like someone pointed out, most had that mellow Baptist flavor, three or so songs, prayers, sermon, invitational song, and farewell type format, with or without tambourines, drums, loud audio systems or overhead video displays. That was back before just about everyone had those things, since my history goes WAY back.

It wasn't so much that individuals decided for themselves individually: I don't remember that being the emphasis back then although it is a strong emphasis for me now. It was that the church wasn't accountable to a larger authority the way the denominations had authoritative bodies over them, such as the Southern Baptist Conference, the Catholic Church, the Lutheran Synod (I think that's what they call it) and the like. Some non-denominational churches and interdenominational churches were one-man shows without accountability and some were more congregationally involved churches with a system to account to their congregations in various ways. There were even non-denominational churches that branched out so much that they frankly began to look like a denomination, or possibly a franchise.

Now what they are today may be a very different thing. But there is some dusted off history for what it might help.
 
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coffee4u

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Ok. We all see folks these days dancing around in various churches who label themselves as "Non-denominational." But I'm wondering about the meaning and denotation of that term since I see people here on C.F. who, as far as I can tell, are sometimes Christians BUT also sometimes not.

And frankly, I don't trust the term. I feel it is too amorphous and possibly obscurantist to mean anything. If a person wants to claim the label of "Christian," even if he or she is like me and feels somewhat Existentialistic about that identity, why doesn't he or she just accept the term, "Christian."

I guess I feel I have to ask because, frankly, I don't trust the variability involved in the term "non-denominational." And the Analytic Philosopher part of my mind just won't let this ambiguity rest; it bothers me.

What does everyone else think? Am I being too stringent in my semantic expecations here? :mmh:

I thought about putting myself down as 'Non-denominational' but decided on Christian instead, since its about what I am, not about what I am not.

The reason I thought about it is because I don't view myself as being 'this particular protestant denomination'. Even though I am a member of one. If I see error that I can't accept I will leave as I have already done that before. This is my third denomination but I also attended another one but you can't really be a member at two different denominations can you?
The way I see it, is labeling yourself as X denomination means you are aligning to every word taught by that denomination. Getting a new minster could be all it takes for that to change. I'm also not much into labels since they tend to come with pre-conceived ideas and generalizations.
Likewise you yourself have also labeled yourself as Christian rather than 'X denomination'.

I think expectations and assumptions are best left on the shelf since most people won't meet them. ;)
 
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2PhiloVoid

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From what I can tell, the term is usually used around here to mean one of two things.

1. Member of an independent and unaffiliated congregation (which might, however, be Baptist or Pentecostal or something else if we were to judge by the congregation's statement of beliefs).

2. Someone who does not intend to affiliate with any denomination or congregation but still considers himself to be a Christian.

..... maybe. I guess we'll see from this point on how well this expectation bears itself out.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Thank you brother. May the Lord’s love and blessings rest upon the Philo clan in 2021. Glad to have you here. :yellowheart:



No one has all the answers. We begin as babes. Some may hold trinitarian beliefs and others may not. But it doesn’t matter. He said the end is more important than the beginning.

We must desist in treating our brothers and sisters en route to the finish line as if they’re there. The journey isn’t over! If He can bring us to saving faith He can work out all the kinks.

Sometimes we have to zip our lips and remember Who’s in the drivers seat. He’s got this. The minor things that bother us can be handled in prayer or trust.

We don’t have to trouble our minds about everything. Reverse engineer it. Instead of doubting their position speak life unto them instead. Unleash the words and manifest His will upon the brethren and the lost.

You don’t need to debate or question it. Use your authority. ;)

Yours in His Service,

~bella

I hate to say this, but now I'm beginning to think I'm being misunderstood in this thread ... my concern has zero to do with evaluating the faith quality of other Christians.

Anyway, may the Lord's blessings be upon you and your family as well, Sister Bèlla! Have a great weekend!
 
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Gregorikos

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Ok. We all see folks these days dancing around in various churches who label themselves as "Non-denominational." But I'm wondering about the meaning and denotation of that term since I see people here on C.F. who, as far as I can tell, are sometimes Christians BUT also sometimes not.

And frankly, I don't trust the term. I feel it is too amorphous and possibly obscurantist to mean anything. If a person wants to claim the label of "Christian," even if he or she is like me and feels somewhat Existentialistic about that identity, why doesn't he or she just accept the term, "Christian."

I guess I feel I have to ask because, frankly, I don't trust the variability involved in the term "non-denominational." And the Analytic Philosopher part of my mind just won't let this ambiguity rest; it bothers me.

What does everyone else think? Am I being too stringent in my semantic expecations here? :mmh:

In essence, all non-denominational churches are Baptist churches that operate independantly and free from any authority structure over the senior pastor. The senior pastor and/or the board call all the shots and answer to no one.

I realize many will strenuously deny the part about being Baptists, but I'm using the formula Congregationalist polity + believer's baptism = baptist. And by that formula, it's true.
 
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Tone

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That's


..... maybe. I guess we'll see from this point on how well this expectation bears itself out.


Well, I see denominationalism as Protestant. Protestants are those who are/were protesting the Roman Catholic Church.

I have zero ties to the RCC, so I do not even consider my affiliation as an outgrowth of it.

So, in this sense, I guess I am not a "Christian", hence the Messianic designation.

Have I been influenced greatly by the RCC and Protestantism? Yes, very much so, as has all of Western Civilization, and I have traversed pretty much the whole spectrum of Christianity.

Do I consider Christians as the family of faith? Certainly, we are all at different points in our walk. Even The Fellowship (LOTR) had to be broken up for a bit in order to accomplish what had to be.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Well, I see denominationalism as Protestant. Protestants are those who are/were protesting the Roman Catholic Church.

I have zero ties to the RCC, so I do not even consider my affiliation as an outgrowth of it.

So, in this sense, I guess I am not a "Christian", hence the Messianic designation.

Have I been influenced greatly by the RCC and Protestantism? Yes, very much so, as has all of Western Civilization, and I have traversed pretty much the whole spectrum of Christianity.

Do I consider Christians as the family of faith? Certainly, we are all at different points in our walk. Even The Fellowship (LOTR) had to be broken up for a bit in order to accomplish what had to be.

Actually, factionalism goes all the way back in history, even among various Christians. But that's not what I'm honing in on in this thread.

I get the feeling no one is actually understanding what I'm parsing out here in this thread.

Anyway, if you think you're Messianic, that's great, Tone. I have no problem with that at all. If you want to use the label "Messianic" to describe your own journey of faith in Jesus Christ rather than "Christian," that doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, it never has.
 
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Llewelyn Stevenson

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I, too, have a problem with the term "non-denominational" as I have found it used to hide an ulterior agenda yet, I have a similar problem with using "christian" as a label because it often leads to dissension and debate, also Paul warned the Corinthian believers that such was carnality.

I do not mean to condemn but definitions ought to be placed in a minor position when we regard those who say they are of the faith.

I put myself as Pentecostal because I want to make it known that I believe and hold to the doctrine that the Baptism in the Holy Ghost is a follow on and often subsequent experience and that it is evidenced by tongues. In so doing I have Identified with what I believe and, if you do not agree, you can avoid discussing the issue so as not to cause conflict.

I view all who name the name of Christ as belonging to him though we may not agree and I would in no way condone their choices in faith.

It also allows you, when we do disagree, to understand why.

We are all entitled to an opinion but there can only be one truth. If you are completely convinced that what you believe is the truth then hold it fast. I do not think less of you for doing so. If and when God clearly shows you you're wrong be prepared to change because he has taught you by the Holy Spirit.

My background from childhood is the Southern African Assembly of God which viewed itself at that time as, not a denomination, but an affiliation of independent ministers and promoted the autonomy of the local church. Sadly, in experience that appears no longer to be the case, though I am not there but in Australia. I only loosely affiliate with the ACC as I do not agree with their doctrines, which have changed over the more recent years. I fellowship in a local church but do not consider it my spiritual home.
 
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Ok. We all see folks these days dancing around in various churches who label themselves as "Non-denominational." But I'm wondering about the meaning and denotation of that term since I see people here on C.F. who, as far as I can tell, are sometimes Christians BUT also sometimes not.

And frankly, I don't trust the term. I feel it is too amorphous and possibly obscurantist to mean anything. If a person wants to claim the label of "Christian," even if he or she is like me and feels somewhat Existentialistic about that identity, why doesn't he or she just accept the term, "Christian."

I guess I feel I have to ask because, frankly, I don't trust the variability involved in the term "non-denominational." And the Analytic Philosopher part of my mind just won't let this ambiguity rest; it bothers me.

What does everyone else think? Am I being too stringent in my semantic expecations here? :mmh:

Non denominational means that they have no affiliation or ties to any denomination or man-made organization – instead, they adhere to the instructions found in the full council of God’s Word (The Bible) and believe that Christ is the Head the Church. For example: The church of Christ appears to be founded by Thomas Campbell. John Calvini appears to be the founder of Calvinism or Reformed churches (i.e. Presbyterian churches, or certain Baptist churches).
 
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Aussie Pete

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Ok. We all see folks these days dancing around in various churches who label themselves as "Non-denominational." But I'm wondering about the meaning and denotation of that term since I see people here on C.F. who, as far as I can tell, are sometimes Christians BUT also sometimes not.

And frankly, I don't trust the term. I feel it is too amorphous and possibly obscurantist to mean anything. If a person wants to claim the label of "Christian," even if he or she is like me and feels somewhat Existentialistic about that identity, why doesn't he or she just accept the term, "Christian."

I guess I feel I have to ask because, frankly, I don't trust the variability involved in the term "non-denominational." And the Analytic Philosopher part of my mind just won't let this ambiguity rest; it bothers me.

What does everyone else think? Am I being too stringent in my semantic expecations here? :mmh:
As one who describes himself as non-denominational, let me explain what I mean by it. As an aside, the word "Christian" means many different things to many different people.

A denomination is a structure imposed on believers by an organisation that oversees affiliated churches. It normally involves a particular doctrinal emphasis that it teaches in dedicated theological institutions. Attendance is mandatory if you want to be a part of the leadership. I was a Baptist for the first 5 years of my Christian life, then I became a Pentecostal for 5 years.

I was never a fan of denominations. Why? I travelled a great deal with the Navy. I did not always have a choice as to what denomination I attended. I discovered that there is much more that Christians have in common than they have that divides. Which made me question why Christians so readily dummy spit and form a new denomination.

The problem seems to me to be religious pride and the tremendous organisational inertia in a major denomination. Religious pride believes that the denomination has all the revelation that there is to have and there is nothing that needs to change in the denomination's articles of faith. Should a movement arise within the denomination that seeks change, the inbuilt inertia makes it easier for the group to move rather than the organisation to change. So the Methodists came out of the Anglican church, against Wesley's will. He worked within the Anglican church, and refused to ordain Methodist ministers. I believe that to be a great example of how an individual can make a difference without creating division. It's a shame that his followers were not prepared to do likewise.

I see denominations in general as "fossilised revivals". Often a truth has been rediscovered and a new denomination formed as a result. The reformation only restored some of the Biblical truth lost. So the reformers continued the practice of christening. When the truth of immersion baptism (a tautology) came along, those who preached it were often persecuted and rejected. So another denomination formed. And so on ad nauseam.

Our fellowship does exclude anyone on the basis of denominational affiliation. The only criteria is that the individual be born again and that they are not divisive.
 
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Dave G.

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The term, for me, is akin to a boat without a rudder on a vast ocean.
Jesus Christ through His Holy Spirit is our guide and rudder directly, no lengthy broken linkage of sinful men in between. If you received the Spirit and lived in that along with scripture you would clearly see there is a very powerful rudder in your life. Not having that you're ( not you personally unless applicable, but in the generic sense for anyone not having the Spirit) subject to a fragile linkage of hierarchy of men to work a fractured rudder. Worse than that is mixing of old and new covenant principles which some denominations adhere to.. Doing Exactly what Paul warns of in the book of Galatians.
 
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WolfGate

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I've attended churches that were part of a formal denomination (Presbyterian, Methodist, Evangelical Free) and churches that were not part of a formal denomination. Those not part of a denomination included churches that were very formal in presentation and some that were more charismatic. One was more Calvinistic and the other leaned toward Armenianism. Some allowed women pastors and elders but not all. Some were OSAS but not all. Some were openly supportive of a political alignment, some viewed that as separate and not part of their focus. And the list of differences goes on. What they did have in common was the belief in the gospel and were trinitarian.

When I see a church or person list themselves as non-denominational all that tells me is I need to inquire further if I wish to know their specific beliefs and theological leanings. If a church or person is part of a denomination, I have a pretty solid head start on what they believe. That is all. Non-denominational is so broad that to me it is exactly what it says it is. It is not a specific series of beliefs (beyond the essentials) but rather any church that is not part of a formal denomination.
 
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Monksailor

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2PhiloVoid, It seems that you are proposing that one must belong to a denomination to be a credible Christian, otherwise they are just "dancing" around in an evasive, most likely Non-Christian position; certainly one to be mocked as you show. Does that sum up your position? I want to be sure I understand what you have said correctly.
 
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Ok. We all see folks these days dancing around in various churches who label themselves as "Non-denominational." But I'm wondering about the meaning and denotation of that term since I see people here on C.F. who, as far as I can tell, are sometimes Christians BUT also sometimes not.

And frankly, I don't trust the term. I feel it is too amorphous and possibly obscurantist to mean anything. If a person wants to claim the label of "Christian," even if he or she is like me and feels somewhat Existentialistic about that identity, why doesn't he or she just accept the term, "Christian."

I guess I feel I have to ask because, frankly, I don't trust the variability involved in the term "non-denominational." And the Analytic Philosopher part of my mind just won't let this ambiguity rest; it bothers me.

What does everyone else think? Am I being too stringent in my semantic expecations here? :mmh:

Non-denomination became a denomination the moment the first group identified themselves as such.
 
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