Biden, Harris take heat

disciple Clint

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So? Any fool knows the far right are responsible for the lions share of the terrorist killings over the past 30 years in America.

To not expect it shows either astounding bias or stupidity (not you, the person in charge of security).
And any fool knows that the 75 million who voted for Trump are not far right activists. As far as knowing that the situation might become violent, it is even worse than what you said, command staff at the police department had been warned days ahead and asked if they needed assistance, not only did they say they did not need assistance, they did not brief the officers working that day that things could become out of control.
 
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A2SG

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You know what is real fun? Trump could use the exact same argument you just made should he be relieved of all responsibility because all he did was encourage protestors to exercise their rights, think about it, that is what your argument supports. keep score any way you like.

Sure, he probably could make that argment. And if he doesn't, many of his supporters are making it for him.

But that isn't what you and I were discussing.

You claimed that President Elect Biden encouraged rioting and violence, and I asked you for specific examples of him doing so. So far, no examples. You tried with Vice President Elect Harris, but those examples did not show her encouraging rioting and violence.

So, again, what else ya got?

-- A2SG, there are enough people talking about what Trump's sayin', let's stick to Joe.....
 
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disciple Clint

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They were shot at, tear gassed and literally kidnapped by unmarked security services.

Those protests were because the American police force has a proud and storied history of killing people with impunity.

The seditionists on the other hand tried to get into the the room with the VPOTUS using force and refusing to comply with lawful commands because they cannot abide losing an election.
you need to look into what you are saying here. While there were some rumors of what you said, the facts do not seem to support those claims.
 
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SilverBear

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And it would show the "peaceful demonstrators" using projectiles, molotov cocktails, and lasers to blind and damage the police, several officers were injured and one person was killed. riot gear, tear gas, and rubber bullets were reasonable use of force under the circumstances.
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I don't see anything of the sort
 
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GoldenBoy89

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And any fool knows that the 75 million who voted for Trump are not far right activists. As far as knowing that the situation might become violent, it is even worse than what you said, command staff at the police department had been warned days ahead and asked if they needed assistance, not only did they say they did not need assistance, they did not brief the officers working that day that things could become out of control.
Regardless of politics, there needs to be a serious investigation into just how such an insane security breach could even happen in the first place without an equally insane response from the federal government. I've seen people get it worse for being out of line at a DMV. How the US Capitol was able to be stormed and ransacked by anyone in a post 9/11 - post George Floyd world doesn't make any sense to me unless they were helped from the inside.
 
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disciple Clint

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Sure, he probably could make that argment. And if he doesn't, many of his supporters are making it for him.

But that isn't what you and I were discussing.

You claimed that President Elect Biden encouraged rioting and violence, and I asked you for specific examples of him doing so. So far, no examples. You tried with Vice President Elect Harris, but those examples did not show her encouraging rioting and violence.

So, again, what else ya got?

-- A2SG, there are enough people talking about what Trump's sayin', let's stick to Joe.....
If you cannot see that she encouraged the very kind of actions that ultimately resulted in this event, that is up to you. Regarding Biden he did very little and only after he had been asked time and time again to come out against the violence on the left. I do not know what you think would be evidence of someone doing much less than they should have done, I am certain that any amount of evidence regardless of volume would not convince you, I will not post all the articles that I can find, but here is a sample.

"But Americans didn't see the riots and looting in Kenosha as indicative of a reaction to American racism. They saw it for what it was: horrific behavior. And so, Biden was forced to leave his basement -- to fly to Pennsylvania, of all places, and deliver a 12-minute address denouncing violence.

The media did their dutiful best to characterize that address as a groundbreaking call for peace. It was no such thing. Instead, Biden blamed the police, Trump and white supremacists for the violence. He name-checked "right-wing militias" and "white supremacists." He made no mention of Black Lives Matter or antifa, the actual sources of rioting and looting in American cities. And the same media that excoriated Trump for condemning violence "on many sides" in Charlottesville suddenly found it in their hearts to pretend that Biden's radically unspecific rhetoric actually covered the evils of BLM and antifa.

Biden simply cannot condemn antifa or BLM by name, because to do so would be to recognize two simple truths: first, that Trump isn't the chief source of violence in American cities; second, that in spite of his "return to normalcy" message, Biden's "systemic racism" narrative provides the ideological groundwork for those who seek to tear down the system. Democrats have spent months denying the violence, calling Trump a fascist for offering federal help and decrying the American system. The fruits are on full display for everyone to see. And so, Biden must bluff, and the media must cover for him.

Perhaps Biden will get away with it. Americans should hope he doesn't.
COPYRIGHT 2020 CREATORS.COM" .realclearpolitics.com

Biden fails to condemn rioting in remarks on Minneapolis
Biden Fails To Condemn Antifa, Black Lives Matter By Name For Repeated Violence, Seems To Suggest Trump Supporters Responsible For Death Of Right-Wing Protester
 
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disciple Clint

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**Trump has around 75 million supporters, it is not at all unusual to find a few isolated incidents of someone being foolish, However Trump supporters as a group are law and order, support your local police, good citizens. By the way using a funny emoji on a post about people who died as you did on my post #80 requires one to question just exactly what was funny.
 
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disciple Clint

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Regardless of politics, there needs to be a serious investigation into just how such an insane security breach could even happen in the first place without an equally insane response from the federal government. I've seen people get it worse for being out of line at a DMV. How the US Capitol was able to be stormed and ransacked by anyone in a post 9/11 - post George Floyd world doesn't make any sense to me unless they were helped from the inside.
As with any major incident there are far more questions than answers at this point. I am certain that a full investigation will be conducted and lessons will be learned, security will be increased, new policy and procedures will be written and unfortunately access to a building that is of significance to every citizen will be severely limited. It is truly sad that the people will no longer have the ability at will to experience freedom.
 
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Vylo

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**Trump has around 75 million supporters, it is not at all unusual to find a few isolated incidents of someone being foolish, However Trump supporters as a group are law and order, support your local police, good citizens. By the way using a funny emoji on a post about people who died as you did on my post #80 requires one to question just exactly what was funny.
A few isolated hundreds of incidents.

The funny part was where you made the absurd claim that trump supporters have been peaceful.
 
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disciple Clint

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I don't see anything of the sort
just shows that we come to accept seeing things that should not have to be seen. I am not going to play photo war, anyone who saw the riots on their tv knows what happened and just how violent it got. People got killed, that should never happen as part of a protest in the land of the free.
 
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Zoii

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The National Guard was called in by V.P. Pence, not Biden, Biden has no power to deploy them. The actions of the police can be explained by the fact that they had no idea that there was any intelligence indicating that the demonstration would become violent. Previous protests by Trump supporters had been peaceful and respectful of the police. It is easy to sit back after knowing all the information and find fault with the actions of the police but it is definitely not fair to them. They responded with substantial courage to a rapidly out of control situation where they were in serious danger as evidenced by the fact that several were injured and one killed.
Look I'm not a policeman, but heck this seemed to be a no brainer - talk about absolutely insanely poor police intelligence

Mob called upon by the President to storm the capitol
Said Mob arrives at the capital
Social media chatter leading to said Mob, very aggressive in tone and fueled by the president
First members of Mob push past barriers and enter the internal perimeters
Several police take that moment to do a few selfies
They move actually inside the building - further selfies with police are taken

Really - it may have been hard for the police to work out - but really it was absurdly obvious; which is why I am guessing resignations have been called for - and fair enough.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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@disciple Clint you are currently trying to defend treason. Take a good hard look at your life and choices that have lead to this point where you have been reduced to defending traitors to the United States of America.
 
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KCfromNC

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So the police treat protestors who have a reputation of truly peaceful protests and approve of law and order differently from protestors who have a well established history of violence and hatred against police officers.
No, I strongly doubt anyone is gullible enough to believe something like that given all the examples of violence from Donald's supporters. Sounds more like an early attempt a misinformation to try and distract from what actually happened.
 
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KCfromNC

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And he did. Many times.

Here's one such moment after the violence in Kenosha.


"I want to make it absolutely clear, rioting is not protesting, looting is not protesting, setting fires is not protesting, none of this is protesting, it’s lawlessness, and those who do it should be prosecuted."
Yeah, but that's, like, from the MSM and you know we can't trust them ... or some other excuse to try and distract from the fact that Donald whipped up his followers into rioting and attacking the US government a few days ago.
 
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KCfromNC

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If you cannot see that she encouraged the very kind of actions that ultimately resulted in this event, that is up to you.
No, that's not how this works. If you make ridiculous claims about public figures and can't back them up, people are simply going to start dismissing what you say as baseless. Not to mention that it borders on the rules here against personal attacks on public figures.
 
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Zoii

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The National Guard was called in by V.P. Pence, not Biden, Biden has no power to deploy them. The actions of the police can be explained by the fact that they had no idea that there was any intelligence indicating that the demonstration would become violent. Previous protests by Trump supporters had been peaceful and respectful of the police. It is easy to sit back after knowing all the information and find fault with the actions of the police but it is definitely not fair to them. They responded with substantial courage to a rapidly out of control situation where they were in serious danger as evidenced by the fact that several were injured and one killed.
Just in case you thought it was some mysterious secret what was being planned - really a three-year-old could have worked it out. Police collusion at the highest level allowed MAGA supporters to commit sedition.

Prosecutors 'looking at all actors,' including Trump, as charges are filed against Capitol rioters - CNNPolitics
 
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Speedwell

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The problem with all these Whatabout arguments like Disciple Clint's is they are based on a self-serving falsehood. That is, they posit the existence of a monolithic organization called ANTIFA/BLM and make the assumption that any and all violence which erupted during George Floyd protests during the summer was an intentional and fully coordinated element of the protest. Thus, Disciple Clint's comparison is fundamentally dishonest And not just his--every conservative in this forum in the past few days who has made this comparison has used the same sophistical argument.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Things I have learned.

Black person in a car with his family is a criminal that needs to be killed.
Black person protesting police brutality is a criminal that needs to be killed.

White underage person with illegal weapon shooting and killing people is a hero that needs to do more.

White people that break into the US Capitol, loot and steal, as well as try to steal an election are American Patriots.
 
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