Biden, Harris take heat

SilverBear said:

and the officers that held the doors open for the terrorists should be held accountable in that death and the other deaths as well.

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They had no idea what was going to happen, I cannot hold them responsible, command staff should have told them there was intel that there were known violent participants and instigators.

GoldenBoy89 said:

What people are we trying to bring together here? You're either with America and against this insurrection or you're for Trump. There can be no dual loyalties here. I don't want anything to do with anyone who is okay with what happened at the Capitol or anyone that even tangentially contributed to inciting the crowd or spreading Trump's lies. Senators Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley and many Representatives in the House along with the talking heads at Fox News, Newsmax and OANN and platforms like Parler and even Twitter who gave his lies false legitimacy have all betrayed their country as far as I'm concerned. I haven't heard Biden's statements yet but I seriously doubt they'll come anywhere near causing the kind of destruction we've gotten from Trump's words. To hear his fans talk about unity and coming together after what happened on Wednesday and after the past 2 months of since the election is laughable.

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While all that may be, it does not change the comments of Biden being just one more attempt to divide this nation. Any one who thinks that they did not contribute to this incident with what they said, did, or did not do is simply trying to foolishly avoid their personal responsibility. This is no time to point to everyone else and claim a position of righteous indignation.

A2SG said:

Please show us exactly what President Elect Biden said to encourage rioting and violence, and specifically where and when he said it.

-- A2SG, and don't forget, details matter......

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Biden had multiple opportunities to denounce the violent protests during his campaign. BLM reminded him that they helped him win the election, so is it a surprise that he had little to say about the violence that the were responsible for? He wanted those votes and he got them, obviously they came with a price.

A2SG said:

And he did exactly that.



By "little to say" you obviously mean quite a lot to say.

See, that is what details look like. Specific information to support my contentions.

Now, your turn. You specifically said:


Emphasis mine.

Now, again....please tell me exactly what President Elect Biden said to encourage rioting and violence, and specifically where and when he said it.

-- A2SG, ball's in your court......

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In a June 2020 interview, U.S. Democratic vice presidential candidate Kamala Harris said of the nationwide anti-police brutality protests: “Everyone beware. They're not gonna stop before election day in November, and they're not gonna stop after election day ... They’re not gonna let up, and they should not.”
Rating

Correct Attribution Did Kamala Harris Say Protests Are 'Not Gonna Let Up, and They Should Not'?

A charitable bail organization talked up by Kamala Harris is drawing scrutiny amid increased rioting and violence in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and Portland, Oregon.

In addition to Harris, Joe Biden's running mate on the Democratic ticket and a California senator, Minnesota Freedom Fund has attracted celebrity donors such as Steve Carell, Seth Rogen, Rob Delaney, Cynthia Nixon, and Don Cheadle. The group aims to steer donations to demonstrators arrested in Minneapolis during May riots following the death of George Floyd, a black man who died during his arrest by the Minneapolis Police Department.

If you’re able to, chip in now to the @MNFreedomFund to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minnesota. Donate to the Minnesota Freedom Fund

— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) June 1, 2020
At the height of MFF's popularity, contributions to MFF jumped from $1,000 daily to $100,000. Suspects who were released as a result of the fund providing bail included a gunman who shot at police during the May riots, a woman accused of killing a friend, and a twice-convicted rapist.

“I often don’t even look at a charge when I bail someone out,” MFF’s Greg Lewin said when asked about bailing out these suspects. “I will see it after I pay the bill because it is not the point. The point is the system we are fighting.”

Additionally, according to Jeff Clayton of the American Bail Coalition, there were not many peaceful protesters that needed the MFF to bail them out.

“They don't report publicly who they bail out. In other words, there's really no way to find out unless you go case by case, pull the files to find out if this bail fund posted the bail for these defendants and what we found out ... essentially, they were not bailing out peaceful protesters, really at all,” Clayton told the Washington Examiner. Kamala Harris pushed bail fund that helped murder and rape suspects get out of jail while awaiting trial

CitizenD said:

That's wild that you're making those accusations in a protest in which 5 people died.

That's a high death count for an event with 1-2k people at it.

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Well if the police officers would have known what was going to happen they would have taken appropriate action before anything had a chance to get started but to blame them for not knowing the future is ridiculous they obviously had not been given any cautions from their command staff, who had by the way been warned by other agencies that there was a potential for violence by some agitators within the protestors.

Zoii said:

But what's bizarre is that those selfies were taken with MAGAs that actually were part of the mob who had forcibly entered the capitol. Okay, maybe it's different in the USA, but in my country that would be considered as being derelict of their duty and misconduct - a selfie with a marauder-- geez, to me that's gross misconduct and sends a message that police support sedition... which is why it took the national guard (called in by the president-elect.... not the president) to actually restore order.

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The National Guard was called in by V.P. Pence, not Biden, Biden has no power to deploy them. The actions of the police can be explained by the fact that they had no idea that there was any intelligence indicating that the demonstration would become violent. Previous protests by Trump supporters had been peaceful and respectful of the police. It is easy to sit back after knowing all the information and find fault with the actions of the police but it is definitely not fair to them. They responded with substantial courage to a rapidly out of control situation where they were in serious danger as evidenced by the fact that several were injured and one killed.

Larnievc said:

They new they were right wing, though. That lot are often violent- with the guns and the pipe bombs and cosplay.

Meal Team Six.

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Trump supporters had not been violent at protests up to that time.

Larnievc said:

So voting against Mr Trump is the cause of this situation?

You’re literally saying this violent attempt to over throw democracy in America is because people were foolish not to vote for Mr Trump and that’s their fault.

You couldn’t make this up.

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NO that is not what I am saying, that is what you are saying, please speak for yourself and I will speak for me. Part of what I am saying is that we had violent protests for months and very little if anything was done to control them, it was only a matter of time until the violence escalated.
Those who refused to have violent protestors arrested, those who refused to prosecute violent protestors, and those who encouraged violent behavior are part of the problem. When laws are not enforced and the police are demonized for trying to do their job crime is going to become more violent.

A2SG said:

Ah, giving up on President Elect Biden, and going after Vice President Elect Harris instead, then?

Okay, let's see what you got...



Thanks for providing this link, by the way. When I went there, I found this:

These were indeed her words from the interview on “The Late Show with Stephen Colbert” in June. While Harris did make that statement, she was not speaking out in favor of the rioting, however. The statement in question appears towards the end of the clip below at around 5:25:

For context, Colbert had asked Harris about her participation in a protest in Washington D.C. over the summer. She spoke about her family history of activism, and in favor of protesters who were asking for justice and accountability. Riots were not mentioned in the clip. Excerpts of the transcript can be found below:

Harris: I learned that the greatest movements that we have seen in recent history in our country and probably since the beginning have been born out of protest, have been born out of understanding the power of the people to take to the streets and force their government to address what is wrong, the inequities, the inequalities, the unfairness, but also the conscience of a government is its people, to force the government to be true to the ideals that we say we hold dear and almost every one of those marches has been about one fundamental ideal in our country which is equal justice under law […] These protests are the catalyst to getting there.
[…]
Harris: The only way we are truly going to achieve change is when there are people in the system who are willing and pushing to do it, and when there are those folks who are outside of the system demanding it. I am very clear that some of the success that we are able to achieve around criminal justice reform would not have happened in recent years were it not for Black Lives Matter.
[…]
Colbert: I want to make clear that I know that there are protests still happening in major cities across the United States, I’m just not seeing the reporting on it that I had for the first few weeks […]

Harris: They’re not gonna stop […] this is a movement I’m telling you, they’re not gonna stop. And everyone beware, because they’re not gonna stop, they’re not gonna stop before election day in November, and they’re not gonna stop after election day […] and everyone should take note of that on both levels, that they’re not gonna let up, and they should not, and we should not.

Harris has previously condemned the riots that led to looting and violence during some of the protests, and said she supports peaceful protesters. In August, she reacted to the violence that occurred during demonstrations against the police-involved shooting of Jacob Blake, another Black man, in Kenosha, Wisconsin, leaving him paralyzed from the waist down. Seventeen-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse, the alleged perpetrator, was arrested on homicide charges after shootings in which two people were killed and a third injured.

Of the anti-police brutality protesters, Harris said: “We should not confuse them with those looting and committing acts of violence, including the shooter who was arrested for murder. And make no mistake, we will not let these vigilantes and extremists derail the path to justice.”

by Nur Ibrahim
Published 7 October 2020​

So it seems clear, in context, that Ms. Harris makes a clear distinction between protesting and rioting, and is fully able to differentiate between the two, supporting the former while denouncing the latter.



Since Ms Harris has clearly differentiated between peaceful protesters and violent rioters before, I see no reason to think she wouldn't make the same distinction here.

Besides, this fund seems to help only those who have been arrested and were granted bail by a judge. Presumably, those more prone to violent acts are less likely to receive bail than non-violent protesters, but that would still be up to a judge to decide. And, let's not forget, those arrested still need to stand trial and, if convicted, serve out their sentence.

So, at worst, she supports the goals of this organization, even if she doesn't agree with every single person helped by it.


So, 0 for 0 on Biden encouraging rioting or violence, and 0 for 2 on Harris.

-- A2SG, that was fun, what else ya got?

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You know what is real fun? Trump could use the exact same argument you just made should he be relieved of all responsibility because all he did was encourage protestors to exercise their rights, think about it, that is what your argument supports. keep score any way you like.