We are seeing the fruits of division

Guinan · Jan 7, 2021

JimR-OCDS said:
We had the worse choice for president in this election in my lifetime.

Neither Trump nor Biden should've been our choice, but after yesterday's event and Trump's idiotic tweets, four years of Biden will be better than Trump.

Hopefully, 2024 will bring out good candidates for president.

Biden is the first Democrat I've ever voted for since I registered to vote in 1992. I'll vote Democratic again in 2024 if Trump or one of his Yes-man followers is the Republican presidential nominee.

The Barbarian · Jan 7, 2021

Albion said:
If that were the case, he would never have bothered to seek the presidency.

Insiders admit that he ran only to increase his value as a TV reality show star. He didn't expect to win, but quickly moved to monetize his good luck. Some of his efforts might result in his kids going to prison as in the looting of the inauguration fund by various means, by Ivanka Trump.

He needed the money. Still does. He has hundreds of millions of dollars in personal loans, for which he has no cash. That's why he's scamming his followers for money, now.

iluvatar5150 · Jan 8, 2021

Pavel Mosko said:
I whole heartedly agree. And a lot of times when I hear this sort of thing especially from liberal politicians I tend to think of it as projection because they typically have directly and indirectly enriched themselves by their position. Trump largely went from being a full time money making machine to putting that on hold, not drawing a salary etc. And those charges of him sticking things to tax payers when it comes to things like security entourage etc. tend to be a matter of accountings (various cities gladly paid or subsidized Obama's vacations etc. freely sending the police to act as security with no complaint etc. but have not had that kind of hospitality for Orange Man).

The issue isn’t merely that it cost money for the secret service to follow him around. The issue is that Trump visited his own properties where the secret service had to pay to rent rooms to stay close to him. So, sure, he donated his salary back, but he turned around and directed a far, far greater amount of government expenditures into his own pocket. It’s a textbook conflict of interest. Obama never did that and I’m wholly unsurprised that a TrumpFan would gloss over that not-remotely-subtle distinction.

The Barbarian · Jan 8, 2021

The thing is, Trump didn't have as much money as he claimed. He has huge personal debts, and his golf courses are bleeding money. Outside of his reality show, he wasn't bringing in any money. After he was elected, he quickly monetized all sorts of things like the inauguration, setting up meetings in his resorts, and so on.

Pavel Mosko · Jan 8, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
The issue isn’t merely that it cost money for the secret service to follow him around. The issue is that Trump visited his own properties where the secret service had to pay to rent rooms to stay close to him. So, sure, he donated his salary back, but he turned around and directed a far, far greater amount of government expenditures into his own pocket. It’s a textbook conflict of interest. Obama never did that and I’m wholly unsurprised that a TrumpFan would gloss over that not-remotely-subtle distinction.

I'm spotting you that minor point but noticed that you didn't address the major point or points made.

iluvatar5150 · Jan 8, 2021

Albion said:
Talk about an appeal for unity suddenly coming to a screeching halt!

It’s dishonest and manipulative to pretend as if Trump’s actions are normal and that pointing out his selfishness is somehow a blockade against unity. It is the folks who would defend and whitewash his actions who are the ones standing in the way of unity.

The Barbarian · Jan 8, 2021

Pavel Mosko said: ↑
And those charges of him sticking things to tax payers when it comes to things like security entourage etc. tend to be a matter of accountings (various cities gladly paid or subsidized Obama's vacations etc. freely sending the police to act as security with no complaint etc. but have not had that kind of hospitality for Orange Man).

Possibly because unlike Obama, Trump consistently stiffed cities for the money he owed them for security for his rallies. He owes that personally too, and after he leaves office, they will likely be in line to sue him for the money he owes.

Whether or not Donald Trump wins the election, lenders will expect his businesses to pay back an estimated $900 million in the next four years, an alarmingly accelerated timetable that involves more than twice as much debt as the president previously indicated. In order to emerge unscathed, Trump will likely have to engage in a series of high-stakes, big-money transactions
...

About half of the debt coming due from the start of 2021 to the end of 2024 is secured against assets that the president and his children own outright. He will have to pay back loans against his hotel in Washington, D.C., his golf resort in Miami and his tower in Chicago. He’ll also have to sort out the debt against Trump Tower and Trump Plaza in New York City.

Trump Will Have $900 Million Of Loans Coming Due In His Second Term If He’s Reelected

It's a pretty grim picture for him right now.

iluvatar5150 · Jan 8, 2021

Pavel Mosko said:
I'm spotting you that minor point but noticed that you didn't address the major point or points made.

The broader question was whether or not he was only in it for the money. There’s speculation that he was initially using his candidacy to boost his tv ratings and book sales, a proposition that’s likely unprovable but not without precedent, even for him. He’d done exactly that in the past.

Either way, cash isn’t the only form of self-enrichment. It’s obvious his motives are, and have always been, self-serving.

Pavel Mosko · Jan 8, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
The broader question was whether or not he was only in it for the money. There’s speculation that he was initially using his candidacy to boost his tv ratings and book sales, a proposition that’s likely unprovable but not without precedent, even for him. He’d done exactly that in the past.

Either way, cash isn’t the only form of self-enrichment. It’s obvious his motives are, and have always been, self-serving.

OK but that statement probably applies to a large portion of people seeking office including Biden, Harris, Hillary etc. assuming you are talking about things like Ego, self aggrandizement etc.

JimR-OCDS · Jan 8, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
The issue isn’t merely that it cost money for the secret service to follow him around. The issue is that Trump visited his own properties where the secret service had to pay to rent rooms to stay close to him. So, sure, he donated his salary back, but he turned around and directed a far, far greater amount of government expenditures into his own pocket. It’s a textbook conflict of interest. Obama never did that and I’m wholly unsurprised that a TrumpFan would gloss over that not-remotely-subtle distinction.

Obama didn't own any hotels, so that comparison doesn't line up.

As far as the secret service cost, they're funded by Congress and get paid even if the president stayed in the White House.

Sure, Trump stayed in his own hotels, did they charge the security guards for the rooms they had ? We don't know.

It may be that having Trump stay at his own hotel was far cheaper than if he had gone to one he didn't own.

I remember the people on the right complaining about the cost for the Obama's to go home to Hawaii when he was president.

The cost is budgeted in before they become president.

JimR-OCDS · Jan 8, 2021

The Barbarian said:
The thing is, Trump didn't have as much money as he claimed. He has huge personal debts, and his golf courses are bleeding money. Outside of his reality show, he wasn't bringing in any money. After he was elected, he quickly monetized all sorts of things like the inauguration, setting up meetings in his resorts, and so on.

We don't know that.

It takes money to support your own private jet and helicopter as he did before becoming president.

BTW, debt is what most business people carry including governments.

Even Mitt Romney as wealthy as he is, has debt.

JimR-OCDS · Jan 8, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
The broader question was whether or not he was only in it for the money. There’s speculation that he was initially using his candidacy to boost his tv ratings and book sales, a proposition that’s likely unprovable but not without precedent, even for him. He’d done exactly that in the past.

Either way, cash isn’t the only form of self-enrichment. It’s obvious his motives are, and have always been, self-serving.

I believe it has more to do with Trump's giant ego than money itself.

Sure money is important to him, but not like having power and attention that he gets.

The Barbarian · Jan 8, 2021

JimR-OCDS said:
We don't know that.

It takes money to support your own private jet and helicopter as he did before becoming president.

BTW, debt is what most business people carry including governments.

Even Mitt Romney as wealthy as he is, has debt.

It's pretty well demonstrated that Trump has a huge amount of personal debt, and his businesses are losing money.
Trump Organization loses money after Donald Trump is elected president

Losses At Trump’s Scottish Golf Courses Top An Astonishing $75 Million

Red ink continues to flow at the unprofitable resorts amid puzzling Trump Organization plans for a $185 million expansion.
Losses At Trump's Scottish Golf Courses Top An Astonishing $75 Million

President Donald Trump’s love of golf is siphoning away a huge portion of his already-dwindling wealth.

On Sunday, the New York Times published an astonishing report detailing Trump’s tax returns from a period spanning more than 20 years—elusive documents that have been considered a white whale for many a prosecutor and investigative journalist. Among the most eye-opening revelations were that the president paid just $750 worth of income taxes per year in 2016 and 2017, that his businesses have been operating at huge losses, and that he personally owes $421 million in loans over the next four years.

One of the biggest sinkholes contributing to Trump’s losses and debts is his numerous golf courses. According to his tax filings, the president has lost more than $315.6 million total since 2000 from his 15 golf resorts in the U.S., Ireland, and Scotland. Trump spent $150 million in 2012 to purchase his largest resort, the National Doral in Miami, and lost $162.3 million on the property over the next six years. He also has a $125 million mortgage due on it in the next three years. He lost an additional $63.6 million on his three golf courses on the British Isles. Since running for and winning the presidency, however, Trump has seen a revenue windfall for his golf properties.
Trump’s 15 Golf Resorts Have Lost More Than $315.6 Million. Is That Par for the Course?

iluvatar5150 · Jan 8, 2021

JimR-OCDS said:
Obama didn't own any hotels, so that comparison doesn't line up.

As far as the secret service cost, they're funded by Congress and get paid even if the president stayed in the White House.

Sure, Trump stayed in his own hotels, did they charge the security guards for the rooms they had ? We don't know.

It may be that having Trump stay at his own hotel was far cheaper than if he had gone to one he didn't own.

I remember the people on the right complaining about the cost for the Obama's to go home to Hawaii when he was president.

The cost is budgeted in before they become president.

Yes, we do know that he charged them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...31bd86-de36-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html

JimR-OCDS · Jan 8, 2021

The Barbarian said:
It's pretty well demonstrated that Trump has a huge amount of personal debt, and his businesses are losing money.
Trump Organization loses money after Donald Trump is elected president

Losses At Trump’s Scottish Golf Courses Top An Astonishing $75 Million

Red ink continues to flow at the unprofitable resorts amid puzzling Trump Organization plans for a $185 million expansion.
Losses At Trump's Scottish Golf Courses Top An Astonishing $75 Million

President Donald Trump’s love of golf is siphoning away a huge portion of his already-dwindling wealth.

On Sunday, the New York Times published an astonishing report detailing Trump’s tax returns from a period spanning more than 20 years—elusive documents that have been considered a white whale for many a prosecutor and investigative journalist. Among the most eye-opening revelations were that the president paid just $750 worth of income taxes per year in 2016 and 2017, that his businesses have been operating at huge losses, and that he personally owes $421 million in loans over the next four years.

One of the biggest sinkholes contributing to Trump’s losses and debts is his numerous golf courses. According to his tax filings, the president has lost more than $315.6 million total since 2000 from his 15 golf resorts in the U.S., Ireland, and Scotland. Trump spent $150 million in 2012 to purchase his largest resort, the National Doral in Miami, and lost $162.3 million on the property over the next six years. He also has a $125 million mortgage due on it in the next three years. He lost an additional $63.6 million on his three golf courses on the British Isles. Since running for and winning the presidency, however, Trump has seen a revenue windfall for his golf properties.
Trump’s 15 Golf Resorts Have Lost More Than $315.6 Million. Is That Par for the Course?

It's speculation and coming from Huff is as good as coming from the DNC chair.

Without seeing his finances, we won't know.

Remember when it was reported that he only paid $750 in taxes ? That turned out to be false as the reporter never saw the tax return and was told by an unnamed source about it.

civilwarbuff · Jan 8, 2021

The Barbarian said:
It's pretty well demonstrated that Trump has a huge amount of personal debt, and his businesses are losing money.
Trump Organization loses money after Donald Trump is elected president

Barb, you need to understand that these businesses are constructed in such a way as does not make someone like Trump personally responsible for the debts the businesses incur. It is not like owning a house and failing to make mortgage payments.

JimR-OCDS · Jan 8, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
Yes, we do know that he charged them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...31bd86-de36-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html

Even if he charged for the security personal rooms at HIS hotel, should he have had them stay at another place and be charged more ?

Either way, that cost is in the security budget for the president, prior to his taking office.

BTW, this is from the Washington Post which as a problem with reporting the truth

iluvatar5150 · Jan 8, 2021

JimR-OCDS said:
Even if he charged for the security personal rooms at HIS hotel, should he have had them stay at another place and be charged more ?

Either way, that cost is in the security budget for the president, prior to his taking office.

The question wasn’t about secret service expenses. The question was about those expenses going into Trump’s pocket.

BTW, this is from the Washington Post which as a problem with reporting the truth

Their problem is that they don’t have enough company.

Brightmoon · Jan 8, 2021

WaPo only has a problem with telling you what you want to hear . You don’t want to hear evidence about trump being an incompetent or a grifter or a liar.

revanneosl · Jan 9, 2021

Pavel Mosko said:
I whole heartedly agree. And a lot of times when I hear this sort of thing especially from liberal politicians I tend to think of it as projection because they typically have directly and indirectly enriched themselves by their position. Trump largely went from being a full time money making machine to putting that on hold, not drawing a salary etc. And those charges of him sticking things to tax payers when it comes to things like security entourage etc. tend to be a matter of accountings (various cities gladly paid or subsidized Obama's vacations etc. freely sending the police to act as security with no complaint etc. but have not had that kind of hospitality for Orange Man).

He was a spectularly unsuccessful real estate developer and then a moderately successful Game Show host before becoming President. He's made more money cash-in-hand off of billing the taxpayers for lodgding & services for his entourage at various branded properties over the last four years then any other thing he could have done. The sale of his name as a brand was, initially, another good source of income. However, his brand has become pretty toxic worldwide in the past four years.

We are seeing the fruits of division

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