What we know about the 5 deaths in the pro-Trump mob that stormed the Capitol

I understand the woman was not the intended target. One of the cops I believe was assaulted in some manor.

Oompa Loompa said:

Do you feel the same way about the deaths that occurred during the BLM/ANTIFA riots?

Click to expand...

Do you have any info on how many of those members died per city?

Oompa Loompa said:

Are you willing to go on the record and say that all those who were killed at a BLM protest died because of an ideology? Are you willing to go on the record and say that all those who were murdered by BLM "protesters" were killed because of the ideology of their murderers?

Click to expand...

At least these attempts to drag the thread off topic aren't burdened by trying to rationalize how a terrorist literally attacking a room holding the second in command of the United States government was shot "for no real reason".

Oompa Loompa said:

Are you willing to go on the record and say that all those who were killed at a BLM protest died because of an ideology? Are you willing to go on the record and say that all those who were murdered by BLM "protesters" were killed because of the ideology of their murderers?

Click to expand...

No, because that would be false. It would also be false to say that those killed on Wednesday died because of an ideology. They died because they were caught up in outrage fomented by the President.

Speedwell said:

Of course. But there is no reasonable way to compare the violent behavior associated with some of the BLM demonstrations and the violent behavior associated with Wednesday's storming of Congress until you relinquish the big lie that the election was "stolen." In fact, the violence on Wednesday is, if anything, more to be excused than the violence which accompanied some of the BLM demonstrations last summer, because the big lie which motivated it was fostered by no less a person than the President of the United States himself.

Click to expand...

One could argue that the violence caused by BLM was a direct result of the lie of systemic racism. A lie perpetuated by the left to include Joe Biden. Who then is responsible for that? For the record, I am not defending illegal actions of the Trump protesters. But I don't understand how anyone who showed any support for the BLM movement has the moral authority to denounce what happened on the capital. In my opinion, the only ones who have the right to denounce this behavior are the ones who have been denouncing the violence all year. Hint, that isn't the Democratic politicians or their followers.

bekkilyn said:

She died in the process of participating in a premeditated attack on the government she swore to serve while she was in the armed forces. She knew the risks and potential consequences of waging war and she chose to do it anyway.

Click to expand...

Hang on for a while. They will make monument of her and put next to Robert E Lee and the inscription will say “ a patriot who stood up to tyranny “

Speedwell said:

No, because that would be false. It would also be false to say that those killed on Wednesday died because of an ideology. They died because they were caught up in outrage fomented by the President.

Click to expand...

I agree. However, I wasn't asking you the question. I was asking @ArmenianJohn who is making the claim.

Albion said:

They didn't do so in the face of real revolutionaries in Portland and Minneapolis and, indeed, in numerous other cities which have recently seen Marxist violence.

Click to expand...

Were they directly threatening the lives of a politician with Secret Service protection?

Tiberius Lee said:

Hang on for a while. They will make monument of her and put next to Robert E Lee and the inscription will say “ a patriot who stood up to tyranny “

Click to expand...

Oh I have no doubt that she'll be declared a saint and a martyr within the Trump faith.

Oompa Loompa said:

One could argue that the violence caused by BLM was a direct result of the lie of systemic racism. A lie perpetuated by the left to include Joe Biden. Who then is responsible for that? For the record, I am not defending illegal actions of the Trump protesters. But I don't understand how anyone who showed any support for the BLM movement has the moral authority to denounce what happened on the capital. In my opinion, the only ones who have the right to denounce this behavior are the ones who have been denouncing the violence all year. Hint, that isn't the Democratic politicians or their followers.

Click to expand...

A lot of assumptions in that post.
1. The BLM demonstrations were caused by the unnecessary deaths of black men at the hands of the police.
2. The violence which occurred during some of these demonstrations cannot reasonably said to have been "caused" by BLM itself. In fact, BLM discouraged it and had a hand in identifying some of the perpetrators for the police.
3. "Systemic Racism" is not a "lie" or a "cause" but an analytical tool used by sociologists to understand actual instances of racism.
4. Democratic politicians and their followers have been denouncing the violence which accompanied some of the BLM demonstrations all year. What they have not been doing is playing into the Right's fantasy that something called "ANTIFA/BLM" is a monolithic Marxist organization bent on violence.

KCfromNC said:

At least these attempts to drag the thread off topic aren't burdened by trying to rationalize how a terrorist literally attacking a room holding the second in command of the United States government was shot "for no real reason".

Click to expand...

So they are "terrorists" now? Well Trump did say he wanted all those involved in criminal activity to have the book thrown at them. So hopefully they will be arrested and tried. Maybe for treason? If only the same standard was applied to all those involved with the assault of the federal courthouse in Portland. But I guess justice for some is better than justice for none.

Albion said:

You went on and on about these victims but never mentioned the most controversial and most indefensible death.

Click to expand...

Pretty sure that would be the police officer beaten to death with a fire extinguisher.

Triumvirate said:

just trying to get at the VPOTUS, nothing major

they could have been a black man trying to open their car door, something really serious

Click to expand...

I heard sometimes black people do u-turns in their car.

Those are the real threat: not whites women trying to breach a secured door with four obviously armed members of the security services charge to stop security breaches.

What is America coming to when a white woman can’t ignore all the rules?

In my more mischievous moments I can imagine her asking to see St Peter’s manager as her name slowly changes to Karen.

Oompa Loompa said:

Do you feel the same way about the deaths that occurred during the BLM/ANTIFA riots?

Click to expand...

Enough with the Tu Quoque fallacies. If you want to know I spoke out against the violent riots that occurred at times. And yes, anytime that property is destroyed it is no longer a demonstration and is now a riot. I could see that the riots that often accompanied the demonstrations caused reactions that were the opposite of what the demonstrators wanted. The riots were self defeating. And those that participated in the demonstrations that became riots were responsible for them too. One cannot control a mob so if one allows a demonstration to become a mob the fault only lies on the demonstrators.

So in this case the demonstrators have no excuse. And definitely lying excuses such as "it was antifa agents" do not fly. All of those at the demonstrations are guilty. The crime that they did was far worse than that of any BLM demonstration.

RocksInMyHead said:

Pretty sure that would be the police officer beaten to death with a fire extinguisher.

Click to expand...

Moreso than a women shot dead at almost point blank range by a guard? And for no real reason? I don't think so. The George Floyd case that started widespread riots last summer and produced innumerable reactions that bemoaned the unforgiveable nature of that death did not involve police brutality to the degree that this incident did.

Albion said:

Moreso than a women shot dead at almost point blank range by a guard?

Click to expand...

By a plainclothes Capitol police officer. And yes.

And for no real reason?

Click to expand...

Attempting to break into a secured area with an armed mob while officers told her to get back is definitely a reason. You have officers charged with protecting members of Congress faced with a group of people - some of whom they have reason to believe are armed - trying to break down barricades and not following orders to stop. Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't shoot earlier.

The George Floyd case that started widespread riots last summer and produced innumerable reactions that bemoaned the unforgiveable nature of that death did not involve police brutality to the degree that this incident did.

Click to expand...

Seriously? How can you say that with a straight face? An officer kneels on a man's neck for minutes until he dies, ignoring his cries for air, and you call that less brutal than an officer firing a single shot? You disgust me.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a tragedy that she died. I'm not going to join those saying that she deserved it - no one deserves to be killed. But calling her death the "most indefensible" of the day is ridiculous. What was defensible about the mob beating an officer to death with a fire extinguisher? What's more controversial than a group of people who claim to support the police without question beating an officer to death with a fire extinguisher?

Albion said:

Moreso than a women shot dead at almost point blank range by a guard? And for no real reason? I don't think so. The George Floyd case that started widespread riots last summer and produced innumerable reactions that bemoaned the unforgiveable nature of that death did not involve police brutality to the degree that this incident did.

Click to expand...

Shot by a sworn police officer while she was crashing her way into the room.

bekkilyn said:

Oh I have no doubt that she'll be declared a saint and a martyr within the Trump faith.

Click to expand...

She's the Carlo Giuliani of the right. Hopefully her wasted life has the same chilling effect on the cause she was a part of.

Desk trauma said:

She's the Carlo Giuliani of the right. Hopefully her wasted life has the same chilling effect on the cause she was a part of.

Click to expand...

And hopefully not so much of a Horst Wessel.

Triumvirate said:

And hopefully not so much of a Horst Wessel.

Click to expand...

It's still up in the air if they will claim her as their own, her corpse has already been thrown under the bus on this very forum as a BLM/Antifa operative.