The Sixth Seal

Douggg said:

The sixth seal event is the second heaven - i.e. the stars, the universe, parting like the curtain on a stage - and the world will see Jesus before the throne of God, sickle in hand, prepared to execute judgement on the wicked of the world who will have been persecuting the saints for the last 42 months of the 7 years forthcoming.

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There is no 7 year tribulation period in the Bible. It can be created by adding together two of the references to the 42 months in the Book of Revelation, or by taking Daniel 9:27 out of its New Covenant context.

Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34?
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BABerean2 said:

There is no 7 year tribulation period in the Bible. It can be created by adding together two of the references to the 42 months in the Book of Revelation, or by taking Daniel 9:27 out of its New Covenant context.

Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34?
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Copy and paste from Daniel 9 the resurrection of Jesus. Not what the commentators say. But the text in Daniel 9 of the resurrection of Jesus.

Are we supposed to believe that Daniel left out the word "new" in Daniel 9:27 as you are suggesting?

Douggg said:

Copy and paste from Daniel 9 the resurrection of Jesus. Not what the commentators say. But the text in Daniel 9 of the resurrection of Jesus.

Are we supposed to believe that Daniel left out the word "new" in Daniel 9:27 as you are suggesting?

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Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


The "he" in the verse above must be either the Messiah or Titus.
There is no other choice found in the text.


Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


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BABerean2 said:

The "he" in the verse above must be either the Messiah or Titus.
There is no other choice found in the text.

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The he is the prince who shall come. Which is neither the messiah nor Titus.

You did not answer of where in the text of Daniel 9 does it say the messiah is resurrected.

Douggg said:

You did not answer of where in the text of Daniel 9 does it say the messiah is resurrected.

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Why do none of the New Covenant verses below mention the resurrection?


Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


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BABerean2 said:

Why do none of the New Covenant verses below mention the resurrection?

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You did not answer the question of where in the text of Daniel 9 does it say the messiah is resurrected.

Nor did you acknowledge the word "new" is not found attached to the covenant in Daniel 9:27.

You have made an assertion that Gabriel mentioned the new covenant to Daniel. Without any proof from the text itself. Which invalidates New Covenant theology movement's interpretation of Daniel 9, and the 70th week in Daniel 9:27.

Douggg said:

You did not answer the question of where in the text of Daniel 9 does it say the messiah is resurrected.

Nor did you acknowledge the word "new" is not found attached to the covenant in Daniel 9:27.

You have made an assertion that Gabriel mentioned the new covenant to Daniel. Without any proof from the text itself. Which invalidates New Covenant theology movement's interpretation of Daniel 9, and the 70th week in Daniel 9:27.

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I did not show where the resurrection is found in Daniel 9, because it is not found in the New Covenant passages in the New Testament. The New Covenant was fulfilled by His death, as found in Hebrews 9:15, and Daniel 9:26.

Matthew 10:5-7, and Acts of the Apostles 10:36-38, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18 prove there was a time period when the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles. This was the 70th week of Daniel during the first century.
So far, you have tried to ignore this time period.

My interpretation of Daniel 9:27 is the same as the one found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Your interpretation of Daniel 9:27 only comes from you. That would make it a private interpretation of scripture.

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BABerean2 said:

I did not show where the resurrection is found in Daniel 9, because it is not found in the New Covenant passages in the New Testament. .........

That would make it a private interpretation of scripture.

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Yes claiming that Gabriel told Daniel of the new covenant in Daniel is a private interpretation inserting its own account of what Gabriel said by enduendo - that new covenant theology movement makes.

The word "new" is not found attached to covenant in Daniel 9:27.

You have ignored what Jesus said to the disciples in Luke 24:40-44, which preceded all those epistle references you are making, regarding himself rising on the third day.

Douggg said:

Yes claiming that Gabriel told Daniel of the new covenant in Daniel is a private interpretation inserting its own account of what Gabriel said by enduendo - that new covenant theology movement makes.

The word "new" is not found attached to covenant in Daniel 9:27.

You have ignored what Jesus said to the disciples in Luke 24:40-44, which preceded all those epistle references you are making, regarding himself rising on the third day.

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Just because the word "new" not found in Daniel 9 does not mean God is not talking about a new covenant. You need to find out HOW the covenant was confirmed according to God. It is NOT by a pen on a piece of paper as the world does. You need to study Scripture a little bit more to find out how Christ, the mediator of the new testament is confirmed or make strengthen. Do you realize that the testament also means covenant in Scripture?

Heb 9:14-17
(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
(15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Joh 2:18-21
(18) Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

Christ, our Messiah the Prince, was cut off by His own people, the Old Testament Congregation of Israel, the Jews, who have rejected him. The congregation is the temple of his body. Not a physical temple! Therefore their kingdom representative was taken away from Old Testament congregation. In other words, the stones of the temple (people of the congregation) fell just like Christ explained in Matthew 24:1-2. This same Messiah the Prince also confirmed or make strength a covenant with HIS DEATH. WIth HIS BLOOD. This is how He has rebuilt the temple! This is a covenant WITH His New Testament Congregation (the temple that Christ rebuilt) for one week, symbolically the whole New Testament Period. This is what the covenant is all about!. This has nothing to do with a piece of paper, world peace, physical temple, or city, whether in 70AD or the future under your so-called 7 years Middle East Peace Plan. It is all about God and His People, Israel, In Christ whom He has confirmed a covenant!

Selah!

Douggg said:

Yes claiming that Gabriel told Daniel of the new covenant in Daniel is a private interpretation inserting its own account of what Gabriel said by enduendo - that new covenant theology movement makes.

The word "new" is not found attached to covenant in Daniel 9:27.

You have ignored what Jesus said to the disciples in Luke 24:40-44, which preceded all those epistle references you are making, regarding himself rising on the third day.

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Can you show the word "resurrection" in any of the New Covenant verses below?


Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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BABerean2 said:

Can you show the word "resurrection" in any of the New Covenant verses below?

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You are evading that "new" is not attached to the covenant in Daniel 9:27.

keras said:

People are just too much locked into what they have been taught, or have assumed to fit their beliefs. Step back a bit and try to get the big picture, what is God aiming to achieve?

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Is this how you get the big picture through speaking gibberish in tongues with your Pentecostal faith? I quoted you God's Word exactly how God has confirmed His Covenant. Where is your biblical rebuttal?

Douggg said:

You are evading that "new" is not attached to the covenant in Daniel 9:27.

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You are evading that "resurrection" is not found in any of the New Covenant passages, and you are also evading that the Messiah's death is found in the previous verse.


Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


You are also evading the fact that the fulfillment of the New Covenant made the Old Covenant sacrifices obsolete at the moment Christ died at Calvary.

Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

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The following is from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America before John Nelson Darby showed up on our shores about the time of the Civil War.

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Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

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