Does God want "all men" to be saved?

5thKingdom

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.
The other day someone posted Romans 11:32 to make
the argument that God wants "all men" to become saved.


Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief,
that he might have mercy upon all.


This a perfect example of the most common reason "Christians" teach
heresy. They take one or two verses and build a "doctrine" around them
without ensuring they have HARMONY with ALL RELATED Scriptures.


Any (good) heresy must harmonize with one or two Scriptures because
any (good) LIE must contain a little truth. However, building a "doctrine"
without harmony with ALL RELATED passages is, at best, only teaching
some PARTIAL-TRUTH (more commonly known as a LIE).


So, let's TEST the notion that God wants "all men" to be saved,
or if the CONTEXT of such statements is God wants "all the elect"
to become saved.


(1) First, let's establish a basic principle: Did Jesus teach that
ALL MEN can be saved, or did He teach ALL ELECT will be saved?
In John 6 Jesus taught that NO MAN can come to Him unless the
Father first "draws them" [v6:44] and ALL MEN the Father draws
"shall come" to Him and NONE of them would ever be lost [v6:37].
This most basic and essential Gospel Truth is then repeated [v6:39].


(2) Next, let's establish another basic principle: Some men were
NEVER MEANT to be saved. Jesus explains [Mark 4:12] that some
men were NEVER MEANT to "perceive" or "understand" the Gospel,
or to ever "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven". Clearly, those
who were NEVER MEANT to "have their sins forgiven" could never be
part of "His sheep" (the saved elect) that the Father "draws" to Christ.


Moreover, while the member cited Romans 11:32 to "prove" that God
wanted ALL MEN to be saved, we can see the CONTEXT of Romans 11
contradicts that assumption, demonstrating once again that the readers
of Scripture have no hope of understanding the MEANING of a passage
when they cannot discern the CONTEXT of that passage.


Rom 11:7-10
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for;
but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber,
eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a
trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their
eyes be darkened, that they may not see
, and bow down their
back always.


So we see in #1 that ALL MEN God wants to be saved will be saved
and NONE will ever be lost. And then we see in #2 that some were
NEVER MEANT to "perceive" or "understand" or "see" or "hear"
or ever "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven". These men
were NEVER MEANT to be saved.


(3) This basic and essential Gospel Truth harmonizes with ALL RELATED
Scriptures (when the context is understood) and is taught in many other
passages. For example, in Romans 9:19-24 the Bible teaches that God
CREATED some men to be "vessels of honor" (saved) and He also
CREATED some men to be "vessels of dishonor" (unsaved).


This same Gospel principle is repeated, showing God CREATED some
men to be "vessels of mercy" (saved) and God CREATED other men
to be "vessels of wrath fitted for destruction" (unsaved)


Not only is this basic and essential Gospel Truth taught in John 6 and
Mark 4 and Romans 9 and Romans 11, it is taught throughout the Bible,
and it is DEMONSTRATED throughout all of recorded history (reality).


(4) When God destroyed the earth did He intend to save ALL the
men/women/children? Or did He intend to save ONLY Noah and family?
Clearly the notion that God wanted to save "all men" is proven false.


(5) When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha did He intend to
save ALL men/women/children? Or did He intend to save ONLY
Lot and family? Again, clearly the notion that God wanted to save
"all men" is proven false.


(6) During the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2 and 21:43]
did God intend to save ALL JEWS, or only some Jews? And did God
intend to save ANY GENTILES during that period, or only a very few?
Clearly the notion that God wanted to save "all men" is proven false.


(7) During the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13, in 8 verses]
did God intend to save ANY unsaved "tares" in the church who were
SOWN by Satan, or ONLY the saved "wheat" in the church who were
SOWN by God? And, did God intend to save ANY of the lost souls who
were OUTSIDE the church, and rejecting both Jesus and the Gospel?


Mar 6:11-12
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart
thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against
them
. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom
and Gomorrha
in the day of judgment, than for that city. And they
went out, and preached that men should repent.


(8) During the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1-13],
also shown as the 7-Headed Revelation Beast, did God intend to save
ANY of the "foolish virgins", or ONLY the "wise virgins"? Again we
see the Gospel does not teach that God intends "all men" to be saved.


Mat 25:10-13
And while they [foolish virgins] went to buy, the bridegroom [Jesus]
came; and they that were ready [wise virgins] went in with him
to the marriage
: and the door was shut [after that Final Harvest].
Afterward came also the other [foolish] virgins, saying, Lord, Lord,
open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you,
I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor
the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Of course there are MANY more passages teaching some men were
NEVER MEANT to be saved. Passages where Jesus calls people by
names like "serpents" and "children of hell" and "swine" and "dogs"
and "vipers" and "wolves in sheep's clothing" and "false prophets"
and "the blind" and "children of Satan"... but the limited examples
provided above (#1-#8) are sufficient to refute the heresy that God
wants "all men" to be saved.


The ONLY measure of Biblical Truth is harmony with ALL RELATED
Scriptures. Therefore, whenever a "doctrine" contradicts Scripture
we know absolutely that "doctrine" is not Biblical.


Jim
 
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5thKingdom

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Some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved. Jesus
explains [Mark 4:12] thatsome men were NEVER
MEANT
to "perceive" or "understand" the Gospel,
or "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven".
Clearly, those NEVER MEANT to "have their sins
forgiven
" could never be part of "His sheep"


Of course the IMPLICATION of this reality is that any/all
synergistic (Arminian) "gospels" are immediately destroyed.
Which is why people will DENY this Gospel Truth without even
trying to REFUTE it.


Jim
 
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BobRyan

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Does God want "all men" to be saved?

.
The other day someone posted Romans 11:32 to make
the argument that God wants "all men" to become saved.


Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief,
that he might have mercy upon all.

1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD"
1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the whole WORLD"
2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance"
John 16 "The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment"
John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"

Is 5:4 "What MORE was there to do than that which I have already done?"

AND YET

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"
So then because of free will it is "The FEW" of Matt 7 that are saved and not the many.

Is it any wonder that Paul says "WE BEG you on behalf of Christ BE reconciled to God"

Rom 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ”
 
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5thKingdom

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1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD"


Of course Jesus is the Savior of "the world"... because
there is no other name under heaven that can save.
However, that does not mean Jesus saves everyone
(that is a ridiculous notion refuted by many Scriptures)


1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the whole WORLD"


Again, of course this is correct. But we KNOW ABSOLUTELY
Jesus did not save everyone so the question is what is meant
by "the whole world"... and the answer is both simple and
obvious. It is both Jew and Gentile. Remember, before Jesus
came God was ONLY saving Jews, after Jesus came God was
saving BOTH Jew and Gentile. (Jew + Gentile = "the world")


But PLEASE do not take my word on this...
look at what JESUS said:


Joh 10:11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life
for the sheep.



Joh 10:16
And other sheep [Gentiles] I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


If we were to take your ASSUMPTION then we would have
to preach that Jesus was a terrible failure because HE clearly
did not save everyone born... he was NOT the "shepherd"
for everyone born. You MUST know that.


2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance"


Again, you must understand the CONTEXT of the term
"any should perish" before you can understand the MEANING
of the passage. Just like the example above about "the world"
in this case the CONTEXT is again all of "His sheep".


John 16 "The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment"


Again you did not discern the CONTEXT so you cannot find the
MEANING. But let me just ask you this: Do you REALLY think
this passage says "the world" will be saved? Of course not.


And what does "convicts" mean when "natural men" cannot
understand anything about the Gospel. You see, your "theory"
must harmonize with ALL SCRIPTURE... not isolated verses.


John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"


Again... what does "the world" mean?
I gave you eight (8) examples in the OP where God did NOT
love "all men".... so you have no Biblical BASIS for pretending
"the world" means "all men"


Once again... "the world" means both Jew and Gentile.
Jew + Gentile = "the world" Does Jesus SAVE everyone
ever born (no). Does Jesus save every elect Jew and
Gentile (yes). See how easy it is to find Truth?


This is not hard...
The gospel is easy when you do not come with
presuppositions that CONTRADICT RELATED SCRIPTURE.


All your other examples are the same.
(1) you do not understand the CONTEXT and
(2) you do not harmonize your "theory" with contradictory verses.


But let me ask you this:
Did Jesus teach that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved?
They were NEVER MEANT to "perceive" or "understand" or
"be converted" or "have their sins forgiven"?


Did Jesus TEACH THAT [Mark 4:12] or not?


Jim
 
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5thKingdom

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Rom 10:9-10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ”


And WHO does Jesus say will do such a thing?
Certainly not those who were NEVER MEANT to be saved.
But ONLY those who were "elected" before the world began.


As many as were "ordained" to believe did.
All others (all natural men) cannot "perceive" or "understand"
or "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven"....
unless you think Jesus was LYING.


That is why the Bible PROMISES (in both the OT and NT)
that (until regenerated) NO MAN will ever "seek God"...
no, not even one.


The ACTIONS you stated are performed by regenerated men.
And NEVER by "natural man".


Once again you only demonstrate you cannot discern
the CONTEXT of the passage - so you cannot understand
the MEANING of the passage. Context is everything in the
Bible... is it talking about the "wheat" or the "tares", if you
do not know the context, then you cannot understand the
meaning of ANY PASSAGE.


BTW... I notice you did not even try to REFUTE #1 - #8 on
the OP. I think I PREDICTED that would be the case. Just TRY
to harmonize you assumptions with the SCRIPTURES and the
HISTORY (reality) in the OP. If you cannot harmonize your
theories with those examples then you know absolutely
that your theories are not Biblical.


Yes, they may harmonize with a FEW Scripture but they
contradict many others... and there are NO CONTRADICTIONS
in the True Gospel.


Jim
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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This is quite a heavy topic and I don't think the answer is easy to give - neither way.

I find both in the Bible: free will and predestination, the possibility to either accept or reject God as well as the idea that God created people to be saved and others to be lost (Romans 9).
Predestination seems to contradict our understanding of justice, yet it is biblical - but who are we to tell God that He has to have the same definition of "justice" as us?
Free will on the other hand is (almost) the only way to explain reality logically, to be able to explain life and its purpose from God's perspective in a coherent way.

After all I would not ask "Does God want all men to be saved?" but rather "Will all men get saved?" which we can answer with a firm no. The Bible is absolutely clear on this part, and whether the reason for it is God's will or man's rejection may be a secret until the day Jesus returns.
 
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5thKingdom

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This is quite a heavy topic and I don't think the answer is easy to give - neither way.


You could begin by addressing the points and Scriptures
in #1 through #8 on the OP. I do not think it will be difficult
to agree with the HISTORICAL evidence that God intended
many to be destroyed in the Flood, in Sodom, Gentiles in
the Jewish Kingdom, unsaved "tares" sown by Satan and
the "foolish virgins" of the Great Tribulation.


Then you could address what JESUS SAID about people
who were NEVER MEANT to "perceive" or "understand"
or "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven"...
was Jesus LYING?


Is it possible for men to be saved when they cannot
"have their sins forgiven"?


Jim
 
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BobRyan

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1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD"
1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the whole WORLD"
2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance"
John 16 "The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment"
John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"


Again, of course this is correct. But we KNOW ABSOLUTELY
Jesus did not save everyone so the question is what is meant
by "the whole world"... and the answer is both simple and
obvious. It is both Jew and Gentile. Remember, before Jesus
came God was ONLY saving Jews, after Jesus came God was
saving BOTH Jew and Gentile. (Jew + Gentile = "the world")


Not true. The text does not say "sins of 1 Jew and 1 gentile in the world" ... the text does not say "the sins of some Jews and some gentiles IN the world".

You are "downsizing" the text such that if Jesus just died for two people on planet earth that gets marketed as "the whole world".

The Bible never does such a thing

Instead of that - Go asks this --

Is 5:4 "What MORE was there to do than that which I have already done?"

AND YET

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"
So then because of free will it is "The FEW" of Matt 7 that are saved and not the many.

Is it any wonder that Paul says "WE BEG you on behalf of Christ BE reconciled to God"

Rom 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ”


And WHO does Jesus say will do such a thing?
Certainly not those who were NEVER MEANT to be saved.

Rom 10 says nothing about "never meant to be saved" neither does Jesus
 
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Butterball1

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"For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all."

--does NOT mean God forced all men to be sinners against their will so He could then save all (universalism).

--all (Jew and Gentile) sinned of their own free will choice. God put all, Jew and Gentile, into one category: sinners. Therefore God calls all men to repent, Acts 17:30.

--"mercy upon all" does not mean all will saved universally but that the conditions God has put forth to save man are the same for all men for God is not a respecter of person, Acts 10:34-35.

" It is a gross error to interpret this as meaning that God has made sinners out of everybody so he can save the whole human race. "Mercy upon all" has reference to that mercy's being extended impartially, and under the same conditions, to all alike. Moreover, it is "mercy upon all" in that it is truly available to all. Everyone on earth "may" receive it, in the sense that he has permission and is invited to receive it. This aspect of meaning is quite clear in Romans 11:31, where it is said, "They MAY now obtain mercy," not "WILL obtain mercy." Thus, "mercy upon all" has reference to God's invitation and permission, not to any fiat of arbitrarily saving everybody. The tragic truth, so emphatically stated by the Christ himself that few shall be saved (Matthew 7:13,14) does not compromise the fact that God's mercy is "upon all." Attempts to make this verse teach universal salvation are denials of the entire corpus of Christian truth." Coffman Commentary

God's will is portrayed in the NT in at least 3 ways:
1) decretive will where God decrees things (as creation) and it happens, no man can stop it.
2) permissive will where God allows things to happen
3) preceptive will deals with what God desires, wishes man would do.

When it comes to God's preceptive will, God does not always get what He desires. God desires, wishes all men come to repentance and be saved but most will rebel and disobey God and not repent and therefore be lost. Though God does not always get what He desires from man, not doing as God desires/wishes come with a price.....eternal condemnation.

Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

It was Christ's preceptive will----He would, He desired, He wished those Jews be saved (be under His protective wing), but those Jew "would not". Hence Christ did not get what He desired/wished from those Jews but that came with a price in their being left desolate.

--If these Jews had unconditionally predetermined by God befroe the world began to be saved, then why did they reject Christ?
--If these Jews had unconditionally predetermined by God before the world began to be lost, then why did Jesus desire they be saved knowing He had already condmened them to be lost?
 
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BobRyan

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"For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all."

--does NOT mean God forced all men to be sinners against their will so He could then save all (universalism).

True it does not say God forced all to disobey and does not say God forced all to choose the Gospel
 
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5thKingdom

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1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD"

So you think that means everyone in the world is saved?


1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the whole WORLD"


So you think that means everyone in the world had their sins paid?
What about the verses that say some men cannot
"have their sins forgiven"?


2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance"


Do all come to repentance?
Does that mean God is a failure
Or are you missing some CONTEXT?


John 16 "The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment"


Has that happened?


John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"


So you think the whole world is saved?


Not true. The text does not say "sins of 1 Jew and 1 gentile in the world" ... the text does not say "the sins of some Jews and some gentiles IN the world".


And I never indicated the text said 1 Jew and 1 Gentile.
How could you come to such a conclusion.


Do you deny that BEFORE Jesus came God was saving JEWS
and AFTER Jesus came God was saving both JEWS and GENTILE
from all nations?


If you do not DENY what is self-evident, then WHY present
such a bogus argument? Do you simply want to knock down
strawmen?


Rom 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ”


And yet Jesus told all those people calling Him "Lord"...
that He NEVER KNEW THEM [Mat 7, Luke 13, Mat 25]


Does that mean you think the Bible contains a bunch of
contradictions... or, are you not understanding some CONTEXT?


BTW... I noticed you did not address ANY of the examples
I gave in the OP... why is that?


Jim
 
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BobRyan

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The question on this thread is simple:
"Does God want all men to be saved"
What is your answer?

Jim

My answer was in the texts... every time they said "Whole World" and "not WILLING that ANY should perish" --- all those texts... that we can read.
 
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BobRyan

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1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD"
1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the whole WORLD"
2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance"
John 16 "The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment"
John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"


God asks this --
Is 5:4 "What MORE was there to do than that which I have already done?"

AND YET

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"
So then because of free will it is "The FEW" of Matt 7 that are saved and not the many.

Is it any wonder that Paul says "WE BEG you on behalf of Christ BE reconciled to God"

Rom 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ”



So you think that means everyone in the world is saved?

That is not the title of the thread - it is not the question that is asked in the thread. I pick that we stay on topic.

God asks this --
Is 5:4 "What MORE was there to do than that which I have already done?"

So you think that means everyone in the world had their sins paid?

The price paid on the cross was sufficient for every sin for all of mankind in all of time. When someone is not saved the problem is not 'Because there is no gospel for them' or "because did not -really- so love the World"

What about the verses that say some men cannot
"have their sins forgiven"?

only those that have committed the unpardonable sin.. Matt 12 which is the special case of believers in God that insult the Holy Spirit in blasphemy


Do all come to repentance?
Does that mean God is a failure

He came to "His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11


1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD"
1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the whole WORLD"
2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance"
John 16 "The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment"
John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"


God asks this --
Is 5:4 "What MORE was there to do than that which I have already done?"


So you think the whole world is saved?

A. That is not the question this thread asks.
B. The "FEW" of Matt 7 will in the end - be saved.


And I never indicated the text said 1 Jew and 1 Gentile.
How could you come to such a conclusion.

Because you downsized "the Whole World" to a Jew and a Gentile -- someone from each group/category as compared to everyone in each group.

Do you deny that BEFORE Jesus came God was saving JEWS
and AFTER Jesus came God was saving both JEWS and GENTILE
from all nations?

Of course I do ... Enoch was not a Jew and Heb 11 says he was translated -- went directly to heaven.

God "Does not change" Mal 3 - the statement that God so loved the World - is a statement about God - BEFORE the cross.
 
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5thKingdom

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Because you downsized "the Whole World" to a Jew and a Gentile -- someone from each group/category as compared to everyone in each group.


When did I do that?
I said Jews and Gentile from all nations.
How did you "downsize" that into 1 Jew and 1 Gentile?
You are just building strawmen again.
 
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5thKingdom

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Of course I do ... Enoch was not a Jew and Heb 11 says he was translated -- went directly to heaven.


Was Enoch part of the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
That is the CONTEXT of the discussion... why or are you building
another strawman?


God "Does not change" Mal 3 - the statement that God so loved the World - is a statement about God - BEFORE the cross.


God does not change but His PROGRAMS do.
Do you think the Jewish Gospel is the same as the Christian Gospel?
Do you think Christians need to have animal sacrifices?
So sad.


.
 
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BobRyan

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Was Enoch part of the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]

There is no such thing as "A Jewish Kingdom of Heaven" the only one that has a "Kingdom of Heaven" is God.

Matt 5: 3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
 
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5thKingdom

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That is not the title of the thread


Wrong...
the title of the thread is "Does God want all men to be saved"
How could you NOT understand that?


The price paid on the cross was sufficient for every sin for all of mankind in all of time.


Thank you for your "opinion"
(1) Do you have any SCRIPTURE that says that?
(2) What about JESUS saying some men cannot be forgiven?
Do you think Jesus was LYING (or was your theory wrong?)


1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD"


Is the whole world saved?
Are you saying Jesus was a complete failure?
Jesus said [Jn 6] He would lose NONE the Father gave Him.


According to you... either Jesus LOST SOME (making Him a LIAR)
or Jesus was NOT given all men to save... which one of these
do you think is Biblical?


1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the whole WORLD"


Did Jesus PAY for the sins of everyone in the world?
Then WHY are so many going to hell? The Bible never
says a sin must be paid TWICE.


2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance"


So God does not get His Will... He is not Sovereign.
Because we know that MOST men do not repent.
You think man's will is superior to God's Will?
What Scripture says that?


John 16 "The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment"


But that never happened.
Do you think the Bible is LYING?
Or is your understanding in error?


John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"


But Jesus did not die for everyone born...
Jesus DENIES that idea. He did not die for the "children of Satan"
and He did not die for those whose sins cannot be forgiven.


So... is the Bible LYING?
OR do you not understand the context?


God asks this --
Is 5:4 "What MORE was there to do than that which I have already done?"


Is God saying that of the people He elected to save?
Is God saying that of the people He did NOT elect to save?
Do you think that cutting and pasting PARTS of verses makes
it seem like you understand the Gospel?


The "FEW" of Matt 7 will in the end - be saved.


But you just said Jesus is the Savior of "the world"...
now you say it's only "FEW"... make up your mind,
which one is it?


Because you downsized "the Whole World" to a Jew and a Gentile -- someone from each group/category as compared to everyone in each group.


No, you are pretending again.
Me saying Jews and Gentiles from all nations does NOT mean
ONE Jew and ONE Gentile... and you embarrass yourself when
you pretend it does.


.
 
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