Does faith justify? (I have an answer, but would like input.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 6, 2021

MMXX said:
But how well do we have to do in not fulfilling the lust of the flesh and and obeying? The pragmatist in me sees that as zero fulfilling the lust of the flesh and total obedience. But of course that's not possible. Paul says of himself:

For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:14-20

Now what this tells me is that Paul himself had the same struggle I've had. Not doing what I should be doing and doing what I shouldn't be doing. The sins of omission and commission. But the keyword is hating that happening. I'm glad that Paul wrote that, because while it doesn't make me feel comfortable about my stumbling sinning, I don't wallow in guilt and shame over it.

In Romans 7:14-24: Paul is speaking from his experience as a Pharisee who was under the Law of Moses before he met Jesus Christ. For without Jesus, and being under a form of Law Alone Salvationism in the Pharisee religion meant that he could never be able to keep God's laws (Which would be by his own false efforts). This is why Paul says we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter in Romans 7:6. This is why Paul says “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:2). What is the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus? It's defined for us in Romans 8:1. It says, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

For Paul says, “Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:12-13).

He also says in Romans 13:14,
“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”

SabbathBlessings · Jan 6, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Indeed. Galatians 5:16 says, “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” But we have to understand that the Holy Scriptures (i.e. the Bible) is inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16). So if we obey the instructions in the New Testament, we are obeying and walking in the Holy Spirit because those instructions were inspired by the Spirit.

Maybe you missed these passages:

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Luke 23:56

This was after Christ was crucified, why would Mary rest according to the commandment if it was "done away with"? Seems like that would be a contradiction and I can assure you that is not the case.

God deemed His Holy Sabbath as the seventh day from creation Genesis 2:3. This is the only day God Blessed, made Holy and asked us to "Remember" Unless our loving Father has contradict Himself. Asking us to "remember" Exodus 20:8-11 something seems important and the opposite of forget which is what you are suggesting.

Jesus also clearly stated:
And He was saying to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Mark 2:27 I believe that Jesus means what He says and says what He means. This seems pretty clear He made the Sabbath for man.

The scriptures says walk just as Jesus and Jesus also kept the law of God including the 4th commandment:

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. -Luke 13:10

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
- Luke 4:16

Just a few, there are many more. So is Jesus telling you to do as He does but except for keeping His Holy Sabbath day? Another contradiction? Or maybe we are supposed to follow Jesus and keep all of the commandments of God, not just the ones we want.

How confusing would these verses in the Bible be if God asked us to keep 9 of the 10 commandments and not all of them. Our God is not a God of confusion. There may be some scripture you might not understand, but keeping the law of God is as clear as these scriptures read:

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
The scriptures says walk just as Jesus and Jesus also kept the law of God:

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

We all have free will and you can believe as you wish, but when you are telling people to disobey the commandments of God and obey 9 of the 10, the Bible advises against doing that.

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

And as predicted in the Bible about changing times and laws. The 4th commandment is the only commandment that is both a time (every Saturday) and law (4th commandment) Daniel 7:25

NO WONDER GOD ASKED US TO REMEMBER

Bible Highlighter · Jan 6, 2021

MMXX said:
Well Steve Gregg is an Armenian who believes you can lose your salvation and he also teaches Lordship Salvation.

I thought you were a Lordship Salvation person, but it sounds like you're into something else. I mean are you saying Christians have to live completely holy and obedient lives? And if so, I have to wonder how you yourself manage that.

There are two possibilities. Either Steve Gregg does not know what John MacArthur really teaches in regards to Lordship Salvation, or he is attempting to create his own version of Lordship Salvation that is different.

As for what I am teaching: I am only a messenger of God's Word. I am nothing. Christ is everything. What His Word says, I follow. There should be no added fillers or additives to God's Holy Word.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 6, 2021

imge said:
Maybe you missed these passages:

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Luke 23:56

This was after Christ was crucified, why would Mary rest according to the commandment if it was "done away with"? Seems like that would be a contradiction and I can assure you that is not the case.

God deemed His Holy Sabbath as the seventh day from creation Genesis 2:3. This is the only day God Blessed, made Holy and asked us to "Remember" Unless our loving Father has contradict Himself asking us to remember something seems important and the opposite of forget which is what you are suggesting.

Jesus also clearly stated:
And He was saying to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Mark 2:27 I believe that Jesus means what He says and says what He means. This seems pretty clear He made the Sabbath for man.

The scriptures says walk just as Jesus and Jesus also kept the law of God including the 4th commandment:

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. -Luke 13:10

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
- Luke 4:16

Just a few, there are many more. So is Jesus telling you to do as He does but except for keeping His Holy day? Another contradiction? Or maybe we are supposed to follow Jesus and keep all of the commandments of God, not just the ones we want.

How confusing would these verses in the Bible be if God asked us to keep 9 of the 10 commandments and not all of them. Our God is not a God of confusion. There may be some scripture you might not understand, but keeping the law of God is as clear as these scriptures read:

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
The scriptures says walk just as Jesus and Jesus also kept the law of God:

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

We all have free will and you can believe as you wish, but when you are telling people to disobey the commandments of God and obey 9 of the 10, the Bible advises against doing that.

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Saturday Sabbath command was in effect before the cross. But Colossians 2:14 says that Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. Colossians 2:16 (Which is the context of Colossians 2:14) mentions how we are not to let others judge us according to Sabbath days (Which would naturally incude the Saturday Sabbath because it would be among the list of Sabbaths). Any Sabbath keeping we read about after the cross was merely for evangelistic purposes and it was not as a result of keeping God's 4th commandment. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. So I am 100% for keeping God's commands. Revelation 22:14-15 is one of my favorite passages. I believe we must keep God's laws as a part of being in God's kingdom. But which laws? I believe this to be predominatly the New Covenant laws and not the Old Covenant laws. For Paul says, “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4). I believe Paul was referring to the Old Law and not the New Law. For a New Covenant Law says for us to believe in Jesus (1 John 3:23). Surely Paul was not talking about 1 John 3:23 in Galatians 5:4.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 6, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
The Saturday Sabbath command was in effect before the cross. But Colossians 2:14 says that Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. Colossians 2:16 (Which is the context of Colossians 2:14) mentions how we are not to let others judge us according to Sabbath days (Which would naturally incude the Saturday Sabbath because it would be among the list of Sabbaths). Any Sabbath keeping we read about after the cross was merely for evangelistic purposes and it was not as a result of keeping God's 4th commandment. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. So I am 100% for keeping God's commands. Revelation 22:14-15 is one of my favorite passages. I believe we must keep God's laws as a part of being in God's kingdom. But which laws? I believe this to be predominatly the New Covenant laws and not the Old Covenant laws. For Paul says if we seek to be justified by the Law, we have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). I believe Paul was referring to the Old Law and not the New Law. For a New Covenant Law says for us to believe in Jesus (1 John 3:23). Surely Paul was not talking about 1 John 3:23 in Galatians 5:4.

There is more than one Sabbath in the Bible and you can read all about it in Leviticus 23. These are the Sabbath annual feasts and has nothing to do with Gods weekly Sabbath He implemented from creation Genesis 2:3. The 4th commandment is about keeping Holy His seventh day Sabbath Exodus 20 8-11 , nothing about food or drink.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 6, 2021

imge said:
There is more than one Sabbath in the Bible and you can read all about it in Leviticus 23. These are the Sabbath annual feasts and has nothing to do with Gods weekly Sabbath He implemented from creation Genesis 2:3. The 4th commandment is about keeping Holy His seventh day Sabbath, nothing about food or drink.

What I stated so far should have helped you to understand how the Sabbath is no longer a command within the New Covenant. If you cannot see this after what I have stated so far, I cannot help you. So I think it is best we agree to disagree and move on in love and respect.

Ceallaigh · Jan 6, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
There are two possibilities. Either Steve Gregg does not know what John MacArthur really teaches in regards to Lordship Salvation, or he is attempting to create his own version of Lordship Salvation that is different.

As for what I am teaching: I am only a messenger of God's Word. I am nothing. Christ is everything. What His Word says, I follow. There should be no added fillers or additives.

Lordship Salvation teaching isn't exclusive to MacArthur or Calvinism.

But you didn't answer my question. Is your message that Christians have to live completely holy and obedient lives? And if so, how do you yourself manage that?

SabbathBlessings · Jan 6, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
What I stated so far should have helped you to understand how the Sabbath is no longer a command within the New Covenant. If you cannot see this after what I have stated so far, I cannot help you. So I think it is best we agree to disagree and move on in love and respect.

I will take the Word of Jesus when He tells us to do as He does and He kept the Sabbath as commanded by His Father.

If we don't want to keep God's Holy Sabbath today, what makes you think you will be happy in Heaven, because clearly Sabbath is not going away.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 6, 2021

MMXX said:
Lordship Salvation teaching isn't exclusive to MacArthur or Calvinism.

Yes, but MacArthur helped to repopularize it in his 1988 book (and put his own spin on it). Many people today associate “Lordship Salvation” with him (even though he is not the inventor of the original version of this belief).

You said:
But you didn't answer my question. Is your message that Christians have to live completely holy and obedient lives? And if so, how do you yourself manage that?

Sinless Perfection (Which includes overcoming all forms of sin including non-mortal sin) is not allowed to be promoted in this section of the Christian forums. What I am allowed to say is that believers must overcome mortal sin in this life as a part of salvation (after they are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ). Anyways, here are...

Ways to overcome mortal sin by God's Word and with the help of Jesus:
(Written to the Believer in Jesus Christ who may struggle with mortal sin):

#1. Remove yourself from sinful environments:
Remove yourself from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause you to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin (Genesis 39:11-12). One of the commands in the New Testament is: "Flee fornication." (1 Corinthians 6:18) (Note: Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the commandments of the Lord - 1 Corinthians 14:37) (KJV). Sometimes this running away is merely a means of escape. God provides a way of escape for us to run to so that we can bear the temptation and get through it. For 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

#2. Pray to God so as not to be tempted:
Pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for you to pray so as not to be tempted into sin (Matthew 6:12). God will guide and protect you if you are serious in praying for this. "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation" (Matthew 26:41). In fact, fasting will help you with this, as well. Being enslaved to sin is a demonic influence. While being enslaved to sin does not mean a Christian is possessed by a demon, we learn that certain demon possessions could not be driven out only by prayer and fasting (Matthew 17:21). So if demon possession at the most intense level can only be healed (by the casting out of the demon) by both prayer and fasting, then it is a sure bet that fasting and praying to overcome sin will also help a believer overcome sin (Which is a demonic influence).

#3. Obey God’s righteous ways:
Obey God’s righteous ways. The more you love God and love others and obey His Word and stay in His Word and pray, the more you will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. But the more you walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh. "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16). "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14). "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:22).

#4. When you are tempted, quote Scripture:
When you are tempted, quote Scripture. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil (Matthew 4:4) (Matthew 4:7) (Matthew 4:10). So when some specific sin is bothering you, find all the verses you can that are victory verses over that particular sin. A good general verse (Especially if you are tempted to look at women in lust if you find yourself in public around a lot of people) is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” (Psalms 23:1). You can say these verses to yourself silently under your breath (with nobody hearing).

#5. Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians:
Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help you to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ. So seek true fellowship and ask for their help. In 1 John 5, we see Christians praying for a believer who is struggling to overcome a sin (that they are confessing). "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16). A faithful Christian shall ask God to give their fellow Christian life (victory) in overcoming their sin that they are confessing (i.e. sin that is confessed is not a sin that leads unto death).

#6. Hide God’s Word in your heart:
Hide God’s Word in your heart. Memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." (Psalms 119:11).

#7. Confess of your sins:
Confess of your sins. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Suffer in the Flesh:
1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (Note: In view of this discussion, this would be ceasing from mortal sin) (Note: Also see verse 2). We should suffer in the flesh by:

Resisting during times of temptation.
Fasting.
Being persecuted for Christ’s sake.

I have written other points with Scripture that need fleshing out a bit more. But hopefully these things I have written will help. Love, peace, and joy be to you in the Lord Jesus Christ. May His blessings abound to you greatly.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 6, 2021

imge said:
I will take the Word of Jesus when He tells us to do as He does and He kept the Sabbath as commanded by His Father.

If we don't want to keep God's Holy Sabbath today, what makes you think you will be happy in Heaven, because clearly Sabbath is not going away.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

See again post #86.

Yarddog · Jan 6, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
No. the Jews did not kill Jesus because they followed the Scriptures. Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (See: Matthew 23:23, and Luke 11:42).

The Jews did not carry out the execution but they passed the sentence.

Now when morning was come, all the chief priests and the elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
Matthew:27:1
and they bound him, and led him away, and delivered him up to Pilate the governor.
Matthew:27:2

When therefore they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?
Matthew:27:17
For he knew that for envy they had delivered him up.
Matthew:27:18
And while he was sitting on the judgment-seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that righteous man; for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.
Matthew:27:19
Now the chief priests and the elders persuaded the multitudes that they should ask for Barabbas,and destroy Jesus.
Matthew:27:20
But the governor answered and said unto them, Which of the two will ye that I release unto you? And they said, Barabbas.
Matthew:27:21
Pilate saith unto them, What then shall I do unto Jesus who is called Christ? They all say, Let him be crucified.
Matthew:27:22
So when Pilate saw that he prevailed nothing, but rather that a tumult was arising, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this righteous man; see ye to it.
Matthew:27:24
And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
Matthew:27:25

Yes, the Jews killed Jesus.

Ceallaigh · Jan 6, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Yes, but MacArthur helped to repopularize it in his 1988 book (and put his own spin on it). Many people today associate “Lordship Salvation” with him (even though he is not the inventor of the original version of this belief).

Sinless Perfection (Which includes overcoming all forms of sin including non-mortal sin) is not allowed to be promoted in this section of the Christian forums. What I am allowed to say is that believers must overcome mortal sin in this life as a part of salvation (after they are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ). Anyways, here are...

Ways to overcome mortal sin by God's Word and with the help of Jesus:
(Written to the Believer in Jesus Christ who may struggle with mortal sin):

#1. Remove yourself from sinful environments:
Remove yourself from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause you to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin (Genesis 39:11-12). One of the commands in the New Testament is: "Flee fornication." (1 Corinthians 6:18) (Note: Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the commandments of the Lord - 1 Corinthians 14:37) (KJV). Sometimes this running away is merely a means of escape. God provides a way of escape for us to run to so that we can bear the temptation and get through it. For 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

#2. Pray to God so as not to be tempted:
Pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for you to pray so as not to be tempted into sin (Matthew 6:12). God will guide and protect you if you are serious in praying for this. "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation" (Matthew 26:41). In fact, fasting will help you with this, as well. Being enslaved to sin is a demonic influence. While being enslaved to sin does not mean a Christian is possessed by a demon, we learn that certain demon possessions could not be driven out only by prayer and fasting (Matthew 17:21). So if demon possession at the most intense level can only be healed (by the casting out of the demon) by both prayer and fasting, then it is a sure bet that fasting and praying to overcome sin will also help a believer overcome sin (Which is a demonic influence).

#3. Obey God’s righteous ways:
Obey God’s righteous ways. The more you love God and love others and obey His Word and stay in His Word and pray, the more you will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. But the more you walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh. "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16). "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14). "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:22).

#4. When you are tempted, quote Scripture:
When you are tempted, quote Scripture. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil (Matthew 4:4) (Matthew 4:7) (Matthew 4:10). So when some specific sin is bothering you, find all the verses you can that are victory verses over that particular sin. A good general verse (Especially if you are tempted to look at women in lust if you find yourself in public around a lot of people) is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” (Psalms 23:1). You can say these verses to yourself silently under your breath (with nobody hearing).

#5. Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians:
Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help you to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ. So seek true fellowship and ask for their help. In 1 John 5, we see Christians praying for a believer who is struggling to overcome a sin (that they are confessing). "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16). A faithful Christian shall ask God to give their fellow Christian life (victory) in overcoming their sin that they are confessing (i.e. sin that is confessed is not a sin that leads unto death).

#6. Hide God’s Word in your heart:
Hide God’s Word in your heart. Memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." (Psalms 119:11).

#7. Confess of your sins:
Confess of your sins. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Suffer in the Flesh:
1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (Note: In view of this discussion, this would be ceasing from mortal sin) (Note: Also see verse 2). We should suffer in the flesh by:

Resisting during times of temptation.

Fasting.

Being persecuted for Christ’s sake.

I have written other points with Scripture that need fleshing out a bit more. But hopefully these things I have written will help. Love, peace, and joy be to you in the Lord Jesus Christ. May His blessings abound to you greatly.

All of that is in keeping with what I've learned and been taught.

Although the only time I've heard moral sin and venial sin being talked about that I can remember was associated with Roman Catholic doctrine.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 6, 2021

MMXX said:
Although the only time I've heard moral sin and venial sin being talked about that I can remember was associated with Roman Catholic doctrine.

I use the term “mortal sin” so as to help a Christian know what I am talking about. But I don't use the term “venial sin” but I instead use the term “non-mortal sin” so as to help distinguish myself as being separate from the Catholic church. For I strongly disagree with Catholicism, and or Orthodox churches. I believe in Sola Scriptura, or the Bible alone as my final Word of authority.

Clare73 · Jan 6, 2021

Gracia Singh said:
By faith, but not by faith alone.

Between "in faith" and "working in faith to earn salvation," the NT is clear.
Works do not count in justification (forgiveness of sin, judicially declared "not guilty," right standing before God).

But true faith will produce the obedience of works in one's sanctification (as distinct from justification/salvation) after one's justification/salvation.

Those to whom salvation by faith is a license to sin do not have true faith
and, therefore, are not saved.

Ceallaigh · Jan 6, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I use the term “mortal sin” so as to help a Christian know what I am talking about. But I don't use the term “venial sin” but I use the term “non-mortal sin” so as to help distinguish myself as being separate from the Catholic church. For I strongly disagree with Catholicism, and or Orthodox churches. I believe in Sola Scriptura, or the Bible alone as my final Word of authority.

So far in looking up "mortal sin" to get better clarification, I'm seeing it as defined by Catholic theology.

The closest thing to "mortal sin" I know of is 1 John 5:16-17
16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 6, 2021

MMXX said:
So far in looking up "mortal sin" to get better clarification, I'm seeing it as defined by Catholic theology.

Catholics believe in the Trinity. That does not invalidate the belief of the Trinity just because they also believe in it, as well. I do not agree with Catholicism or their theology as a whole. In fact, as I said, I am strongly against Catholic beliefs. Nor have I sat down and read any of their works. I just so happen to agree with a particular truth to a certain extent in what they say (i.e. the existence of mortal sin & non mortal) because the Bible teaches it. I use the term “mortal sin” so I don't have to reinvent the wheel in explaining to a person in what I am talking about. In fact, some may not even understand what I am saying if I did not use such a term. My short bio in each of my posts says I am Non-Denom (i.e. I am non-denominational). So it's clear I am not a Catholic. So I doubt a person would be led to the Catholic church just because I use the terms “mortal sin” and “non-mortal sin.”

coronawatching · Jan 6, 2021

MMXX said:
I believe the concern of the Free Grace people is the idea of a 50/50 salvation. 50% the blood of Jesus and 50% our works. That Jesus dying for our sins only covers half of our salvation and our works makes up the other half. Which they believe is what the Lordship Salvation people are teaching as far as I can tell.

Now this is where it gets confusing. John MacArthur is probably the best known teacher of Lordship Salvation, and has been accused by the Free Grace people of teaching that salvation is a combination of grace plus works.

However, I heard John MacArthur denounce believing in a salvation that is a combination of grace plus works. Saying that is false Christianity teaching a false gospel that is to be cursed.

When I heard him say that, I was astounded, because that's what he himself has been accused of.

What John MacArthur said can be heard @3:29 HERE

I have never been a fan of John MacArthur. Salvation isn't 50/50. We wouldn't even have a chance to be saved if it wasn't for Jesus' sacrifice. What reminded me of how the resurrected Jesus really thinks was his tone toward the 7 churches in the Book of Revelations. The rationalizing some of Paul's writings on grace isn't going to suffice when we face Christ. Those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 6, 2021

MMXX said:
So far in looking up "mortal sin" to get better clarification, I'm seeing it as defined by Catholic theology.

The closest thing to "mortal sin" I know of is 1 John 5:16-17
16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

John MacArthur took the term Lordship Salvation and reinvented it to his own understanding of what that means. He helped to repopularize Lordship Salvation, as well. Just because John MacArthur used the term from the past does not mean he is in agreement with how that term was originally meant or taught by other believers in the past. In other words, it's just a label, but we have to unpack what that label really means to each person.

Ceallaigh · Jan 6, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Catholics believe in the Trinity. That does not invalidate the belief of the Trinity just because they also believe in it, as well. I do not agree with Catholicism or their theology as a whole. In fact, as I said, I am strongly against Catholic beliefs. Nor have I sat down and read any of their works. I just so happen to agree with a particular truth to a certain extent in what they say (i.e. the existence of mortal sin & non mortal) because the Bible teaches it. I use the term “mortal sin” so I don't have to reinvent the wheel in explaining to a person in what I am talking about. In fact, some may not even understand what I am saying if I did not use such a term. My short bio in each of my posts says I am Non-Denom (i.e. I am non-denominational). So it's clear I am not a Catholic. So I doubt a person would be led to the Catholic church just because I use the terms “mortal sin” and “non-mortal sin.”

I didn't think you were a Catholic. I just said so far Catholic websites are the sources I'm seeing in trying to figure out what "mortal sins" are.

The closest thing to "mortal sin" I know of being mentioned in the BIble is 1 John 5:16-17
16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

And just what that "mortal sin" is (John seems to indicate there's only one) is a bit of a mystery and there's various interpretations of its meaning.

Ceallaigh · Jan 6, 2021

"Mortal sin, also called cardinal sin, in Roman Catholic theology, the gravest of sins, representing a deliberate turning away from God and destroying charity (love) in the heart of the sinner. A mortal sin is defined as a grave action that is committed in full knowledge of its gravity and with the full consent of the sinner’s will. Such a sin cuts the sinner off from God’s sanctifying grace until it is repented, usually in confession with a priest. A person who dies unrepentant of the commission of mortal sin is believed to descend immediately into hell, where they suffer the separation from God that they chose in life. Although the Roman Catholic Church does not provide an exhaustive list of mortal sins, breaking the Ten Commandments, suicide, induced abortion, masturbation, rape, and divorce are well-known examples. Additionally, some mortal sins are considered so severe that the church punishes them with excommunication. These include apostasy (deliberate renunciation of the faith) and the desecration of the elements of the Eucharist. Mortal sins are contrasted with venial sins, which usually involve a less serious action and are committed with less self-awareness of wrongdoing. While a venial sin weakens the sinner’s union with God, it is not a deliberate turning away from him and so does not wholly block the inflow of sanctifying grace. See also seven deadly sins."
mortal sin | Definition & Examples

Does faith justify? (I have an answer, but would like input.

Does faith justify?

Yes

No

I don't know.

Other (Please explain)

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

May God be with you and bless you.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Senior Contributor

May God be with you and bless you.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Blood-bought

May God be with you and bless you.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Active Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

May God be with you and bless you.

May God be with you and bless you.

Similar threads