When will you accept the results of the Presidential election?

rjs330 · Jan 5, 2021

SilverBear said:
if they are hearsay that is a reason to not accept them

There is a difference between hearing them and accepting them. Some have been heard and rejected. What meant by accept them I meant to actually hear them. My fault for not being more clear.

I've read a lot of the court cases where the affidavits and testimony weren't actually heard and no questions asked. I actually don't think all of them would hold up and quite frankly some of that is poor representation. On reading some of these cases I couldn't believe they actually went to court with what they had. Some shocking lack of details that a good lawyer would have made sure was there. Some specifics that would have been easy to establish.

Some of this o blame on a rush to court. The time frame was so short that there wasn't time to put together a better case.

So yes some of these affidavits were poorly done ad was the case.

But many cases were tossed out due to procedure and no standing rulings. Not because of the evidence.

There is enough evidence for courts to rule that access should be granted to the machines and ballots.

Arcangl86 · Jan 5, 2021

rjs330 said:
There is a difference between hearing them and accepting them. Some have been heard and rejected. What meant by accept them I meant to actually hear them. My fault for not being more clear.

I've read a lot of the court cases where the affidavits and testimony weren't actually heard and no questions asked. I actually don't think all of them would hold up and quite frankly some of that is poor representation. On reading some of these cases I couldn't believe they actually went to court with what they had. Some shocking lack of details that a good lawyer would have made sure was there. Some specifics that would have been easy to establish.

Some of this o blame on a rush to court. The time frame was so short that there wasn't time to put together a better case.

So yes some of these affidavits were poorly done ad was the case.

But many cases were tossed out due to procedure and no standing rulings. Not because of the evidence.

There is enough evidence for courts to rule that access should be granted to the machines and ballots.

Actual judges have found otherwise.

Postvieww · Jan 5, 2021

mmksparbud said:
If this goes to court and it is proved that Trump broke the law and he goes to jail-----what will you do?

Biden will go to jail before Trump. In reality neither will.

SilverBear · Jan 5, 2021

rjs330 said:
There is a difference between hearing them and accepting them. Some have been heard and rejected. What meant by accept them I meant to actually hear them. My fault for not being more clear.

I've read a lot of the court cases where the affidavits and testimony weren't actually heard and no questions asked.

and how many of those were the appeals of earlier court rulings where the evidence was examined?

The Liturgist · Jan 5, 2021

I will accept the results of the election when there is one conducted lawfully, without the various distortions caused by an ill conceived reaction to the coronavirus issue.

In fact, last fall I felt the election should have been delayed, perhaps with a bipartisan emergency committee and a set of temporary restrictions in place to prevent abuse of the emergency electoral delay. And I still feel this way. I believe there needs to be a do-over of the entire election as the virus gets under control.

SilverBear · Jan 5, 2021

The Liturgist said:
I will accept the results of the election when there is one conducted lawfully, without the various distortions caused by an ill conceived reaction to the coronavirus issue.

In fact, last fall I felt the election should have been delayed, perhaps with a bipartisan emergency committee and a set of temporary restrictions in place to prevent abuse of the emergency electoral delay. And I still feel this way. I believe there needs to be a do-over of the entire election as the virus gets under control.

how is any of this lawful?

Archivist · Jan 5, 2021

The Liturgist said:
I will accept the results of the election when there is one conducted lawfully, without the various distortions caused by an ill conceived reaction to the coronavirus issue.

In fact, last fall I felt the election should have been delayed, perhaps with a bipartisan emergency committee and a set of temporary restrictions in place to prevent abuse of the emergency electoral delay. And I still feel this way. I believe there needs to be a do-over of the entire election as the virus gets under control.

Except the were no major cases of voter fraud in the election. Trump and his supporters have filed over 50 cases claiming election fraud. All have been dismissed. Trump's own attorney general said there was no significant election fraud--not enough to change the outcome. Chris Krebs, Homeland Security cyber chief, said the election was secure. Georgia's Republican officials pronounced the election secure. Exactly where are the "various distortions" that you claim? Please provide evidence from reputable sources.

The Liturgist · Jan 5, 2021

Archivist said:
Except the were no major cases of voter fraud in the election. Trump and his supporters have filed over 50 cases claiming election fraud. All have been dismissed. Trump's own attorney general said there was no significant election fraud--not enough to change the outcome. Chris Krebs, Homeland Security cyber chief, said the election was secure. Georgia's Republican officials pronounced the election secure. Exactly where are the "various distortions" that you claim? Please provide evidence from reputable sources.

It is my view the entire election was corrupted by medical conditions related to the pandemic, and as such, was unfair from the start; it was the electoral equivalent of a mistrial. It should have been delayed.

The Liturgist · Jan 5, 2021

SilverBear said:
how is any of this lawful?

If the Supreme Court would have been asked to devise emergency measures based on the national state of emergency, or to approve such measures, this would be lawful given judicial supremacy. But my point is this should have been worked out in April or May. Since that did not happen, we have had an illegitimate and unlawful election, in which numerous states deviated from their own election laws in a clumsy effort to accommodate an emergency which at present I think can only properly be accommodated by a new election once the pandemic is concerned.

Archivist · Jan 5, 2021

The Liturgist said:
It is my view the entire election was corrupted by medical conditions related to the pandemic, and as such, was unfair from the start; it was the electoral equivalent of a mistrial. It should have been delayed.

Specifically how was it "corrupted by medical conditions?" In what ways was it unfair?

This nation had a Presidential election during the Civil War, but it went off just fine. Likewise our Presidential election was held without issue during World War II. We also had a Presidential election during our last major pandemic, the Spanish Flu, but I don't know of anyone saying it was "corrupted." How does this election differ from those three events?

The Liturgist · Jan 5, 2021

Archivist said:
Specifically how was it "corrupted by medical conditions?" In what ways was it unfair?

This nation had a Presidential election during the Civil War, but it went off just fine. Likewise our Presidential election was held without issue during World War II. We also had a Presidential election during our last major pandemic, the Spanish Flu, but I don't know of anyone saying it was "corrupted." How does this election differ from those three events?

Because those elections were, at least ostensibly, conducted in the normal manner, and most people in the North, in the Civil War, were not in a situation of immediate peril that would discourage people from voting (although some were, of course).

Andrewn · Jan 5, 2021

The Liturgist said:
I will accept the results of the election when there is one conducted lawfully, without the various distortions caused by an ill conceived reaction to the coronavirus issue.

In fact, last fall I felt the election should have been delayed, perhaps with a bipartisan emergency committee and a set of temporary restrictions in place to prevent abuse of the emergency electoral delay. And I still feel this way. I believe there needs to be a do-over of the entire election as the virus gets under control.

This is what President Abiye Ahmed chose to do in Ethiopia and it has resulted in a civil war with hundreds of thousands of people killed or migrated to neighboring Sudan!

Archivist · Jan 5, 2021

The Liturgist said:
Because those elections were, at least ostensibly, conducted in the normal manner, and most people in the North, in the Civil War, were not in a situation of immediate peril that would discourage people from voting (although some were, of course).

You forget about the more than 2 million men who were fighting in the army. They managed to vote, just as servicemen in World War II managed to vote.

So, what about the election during the Spanish Flu?

The Liturgist · Jan 5, 2021

Andrewn said:
This is what President Abiye Ahmed chose to do in Ethiopia and it has resulted in a civil war with hundreds of thousands of people killed or migrated to neighboring Sudan!

As someone who follows Ethiopian issues very closely owing to numerous friends I have in the Oriental Orthodox community, I would just say that there are numerous structural problems with the Ethiopian government and there has been a great deal of civil unrest even before this current crisis. Ethiopia has unfortunately had a tough ride ever since the Derg communists seized power in the 1970s; they were of course overthrown, but communist rule does tend to cause long-term hardship even after such regimes are overthrown (look at how Albania continues to struggle, as a consequence of the extreme poverty the country was in when the Hoxha regime finally crumbled).

Andrewn · Jan 5, 2021

The Liturgist said:
As someone who follows Ethiopian issues very closely owing to numerous friends I have in the Oriental Orthodox community, I would just say that there are numerous structural problems with the Ethiopian government and there has been a great deal of civil unrest even before this current crisis. Ethiopia has unfortunately had a tough ride ever since the Derg communists seized power in the 1970s; they were of course overthrown, but communist rule does tend to cause long-term hardship even after such regimes are overthrown (look at how Albania continues to struggle, as a consequence of the extreme poverty the country was in when the Hoxha regime finally crumbled).

My point is that more democratic countries were able to hold elections in 2020.

mmksparbud · Jan 5, 2021

Postvieww said:
Biden will go to jail before Trump. In reality neither will.

What would Biden be charged with?

Postvieww · Jan 5, 2021

mmksparbud said:
What would Biden be charged with?

Taking money from China through his son for starters. That pesky ole laptop.Don’t worry Dems usually are not charged.

mmksparbud · Jan 5, 2021

Postvieww said:
Taking money from China through his son for starters. That pesky ole laptop.Don’t worry Dems usually are not charged.

Really? You, of course have proof? And what about Trump having his children in White House positions which is clearly against the rules??? But I'm sure that doesn't bother you any. They have much to answer for in the next few days after Jan 20. Lawsuits are waiting, that is the reason Trump is so desperate to stay as President, He has many lawsuits waiting, they have waited for 4 years now and they are quite impatient. He has been able to have 4 years of freedom from the lawsuits---he will no longer after Jan 20 and he is soiling his depends over it. But he has been able to get away with all manner of criminal activity all his life, and may still. We shall wait and see.

rjs330 · Jan 5, 2021

Archivist said:
Actually his threat of criminal liability could violate Georgia’s solicitation of election fraud statute.

What threat of criminal liability? In the audio I listened to Trump didn't threaten anyone. Please quote what he said and note the time stamp.

Archivist · Jan 5, 2021

rjs330 said:
What threat of criminal liability? In the audio I listened to Trump didn't threaten anyone. Please quote what he said and note the time stamp.

Then you didn't pay attention because yes, he made such a threat. No, I'm not going to listen through it again to get the time stamp.

A transcript has been posted. Here are Trump's exact words:

"And you are going to find that they are — which is totally illegal, it is more illegal for you than it is for them because, you know what they did and you're not reporting it. That's a criminal, that's a criminal offense. And you can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that's a big risk. But they are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what I've heard. And they are removing machinery and they're moving it as fast as they can, both of which are criminal finds. And you can't let it happen and you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, I'm notifying you that you're letting it happen. So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state."

"And flipping the state is a great testament to our country because, cause you know, this is — it's a testament that they can admit to a mistake or whatever you want to call it. If it was a mistake, I don't know. A lot of people think it wasn't a mistake. It was much more criminal than that. But it's a big problem in Georgia and it's not a problem that's going away. I mean, you know, it's not a problem that's going away."

The complete transcript can be found here: Full transcript: Trump's audio call with Georgia secretary of state Brad Raffensperger - CNNPolitics

When will you accept the results of the Presidential election?

When will you accept the Presidential election results?

I already have--Biden is our President-elect.

When the Supreme Court decides the Texas case.

When the Supreme Court decides the Texas case, but only if they decide in favor of Trump.

When the Electoral College votes.

When the Electoral College votes, but only is they vote in favor of Trump.

When Congress confirms the Electoral College results.

When Congress doesn’t approve of the Electoral College results and votes for Trump.

When Biden takes the oath of office.

I will never accept the election results--Trump won and the election was stolen from him.

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